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Chatting about games

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1 Chatting about games on Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:19 am

Kajiwotore and I were talking on Reddit, which is where we met. We'll continue our talk here, feel free to join in!
For context, here's the original conversation:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ninjagaiden/comments/8apykx/what_caused_this_game_series_to_disappear/dyb0frx/?context=3

> Ninja Gaiden Girls
I was always a Tina guy haha, but Helena was probably the most interesting - also to play. I still consider DOA2 to be one of the finest fighting games to ever grace the medium. Short lifebars, quick hits, counters that always work with mindgames and the T&A wasn't overdone.

> NG3 online
It had its moments. The co-op was absolutely fun, but had the flaw that missions - as a result - were built around them. So later ones were absolutely nuts with bosses almost becoming regular enemies. You can imagine how difficult 2 Alma's and 2 Volfs at once can be. It was great to see some of the Ninja Gaiden legends (like ShowR) tackle these missions solo (if only some of them).
The versus multiplayer was absolutely horrible and people only played it for the trophies.

> co-op Bloody Palace
You can actually do this in DMC3, though it requires some setup. You'll have to use the super-costume and equip DopplegangerStyle, then have a second player press start. He'll be able to controle the other one! Bayonetta 2 also has pretty cool co-op things.

> Yakuza 6 frame rate
Funnily enough, I had the exact same thing (almost). I'd played Zero, Kiwami and then went to 2 and 3, then 4 and 5. So I was a bit used to the sub-30fps routine of the games by then. But playing Zero after those games is like suddenly gliding on butter.

> God of War
Lot has changed since we last talked about this, but I bought the game and it was a disappointment to say the least. Even from a narative point I was not impressed (so I really don't get the high scores).

> WiiU
The second the Switch gets Mario 3d World, Devil's Third, Mario Maker, Pikmin3, Earthbound (and other virtual console stuff), Wind Waker HD, Twilight HD and Wonderful 101 it is all over for that poor machine. Really hype to see Captain Toad go to the Switch, never got to play that game due to life-issues and love to give it a shot.

> NGB2
You don't happen to have a link where Itagaki notes how he felt the game was unfinished and unfair/cheap? Been looking for a gem like that for a while now.

> Modding NG2
I think if it were to ever happen (it won't), I think we'd end up with another Sigma 2 without them knowing it. Sigma 2 really is NG2 with the bad parts cut out. It is the things they pumped back in that were harmful I feel.

> 3d World
Yeah I grew up with Super Mario World, so I love lineair platforming levels chuckfull of secrets and extras, and 3d World gives that like no tomorrow. Odyssey is great though, just M64 with way too open levels and no real platforming.

> DMCV
To note, DMC4 barely managed 2.5 million copies sold over PS3/X360. If we combine all its sales (PS3, X360, PC, X1, PS4, PCagain) we're almost at the 4 million mark (so that's including the Special Edition). The game has a loyal fanbase that keeps buying the new versions. But compared to the big hitters like God of War 3 (which sold 5 million units, not counting the remaster), it is nothing. I am really afraid that they just set their sights too high with the reputation that this game has, but I don't think that reputation will convert into sales.
That said: screw sales. Just make a great game and I'm in! Really hope they go nuts and just make a good followup to DMC3; instead of a unfinished game with a great combat system (DMC4).

> Combat gets bad after KH2
There's...more games between KH2 and 3 o_O?

> reviewers
I only really trust RazorFist at this point. But even he sometimes goes off on a weird tirade that makes me think he's letting his opinion speak a bit too much.

> masterpiece
The word is rarely used for me, but I do have a list in that regard. Vanquish and RE4 are one of them!

> devil's third
It is a great and fun little title, but you really got to open your mind to it. I know Birdman didn't care too much for it, but it was actually the game that triggered this website being born (no joke). I was so tired of modern day games I just bought Devil's Third on a whim and it was everything I missed in games.

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2 Re: Chatting about games on Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:33 pm

DOA Girls
The only DOA I've tried is 5, which was fun from what I've played of it. Fighting games always overwhelm me and I never stick with one for too long (except for Smash 64 + Melee). I love watching people play them though.

NG3 Online
Jesus two Alma's and two Volfs?! That doesn't sound fun at all. Especially because I think NG's boss fights are one of the weakest aspects of the series. Co-op does seem like it would be fun though. I always wished the Souls series just had a separate co-op mode. All the summoning stuff gets kind of annoying. It makes sense for the single-player, but it would be great to just have a Halo-esque co-op mode instead.

DMC Co-op
I've read about that! That's really cool that they thought to include that. It probably makes Arkham a lot less annoying too. I need to get back to Bayo. I've never been able to finish the first one.

Yakuza 6
Yeah I can deal with 30FPS, it's not a huge deal but like you said playing 0 is just so incredible compared with the others. Luckily 3-5 HD is on the way! Can't wait to play those at 60. I wish they would release 1-2 HD as well. I don't hate Kiwami as much as a lot of other people do, but to be honest I think I would rather just be playing the PS2 versions. It seems like every time a remaster/remake comes out, it always loses something. Even REmake lost the cheesy voice acting and classic lines. Though that was really the only mistake that game made.

God of Soy
I am always wary of games nowadays getting perfect 10's and everyone calling them "MASTURPIECE1!11" Very few games deserve that, and the ones that do change the gaming landscape like RE4 , Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64, etc. What does God of Soy have? Pretty graphics and a nice story. Well guess what? So did Silent Hill 2 (among many other things that make it a horror masterpiece) and many others years and years ago. I hate the narrative that games only have had good stories in the last few years. Even if these games had the most amazing stories of all time, the game play is consistently mediocre. You can argue that these games are just trying to tell a great story, like how DMC is mainly trying to have great combat, so it doesn't matter. But then maybe they shouldn't be called a masterpiece if that's the case. Most of these games would be no different if they were a movie, which means they're not pushing what makes games so unique. Something like SH2 ONLY works as a game. Devil May Cry's player expression can't happen on the silver screen. All of Naughty Dog's games wouldn't be different if they were movies, and I'm assuming God of Soy would be the same.

Wii U
Yep, I give it maybe 1 or 2 more years before most people never touch it again.

NGB2
It's very brief, but this is the only quote from him I found about the final state of NG2:
https://kotaku.com/5604144/guy-who-makes-hard-games-would-like-to-apologize

Modding NG2
Yeah I'm not holding my breath either haha. Sigma 2 took a little too much away, and then the added stuff is bad too. What I'm describing is still a different experience from Sigma 2 though. Just NG2, with a scalpel taken to it, instead of a blunt chainsaw.

Mario
I'm sure I'll try out Odyssey some day, but the way you describe it sounds kind of tired. Not everything needs to be bigger if it's not going to be better. Breath of the Wild was also way too big. I realize Nintendo became way too linear and hand holdy with Skyward Sword, but it's like Nintendo went as far as possible in the other direction that they ended up in the ocean. Half the time in BotW you're just walking, and walking and then you pick up a korock turd... and then you walk etc. The dungeons were pretty bad in that game too. I think a sequel to BotW has the potential to be something great, but BotW just felt like a prototype open world Zelda. It didn't deserve all the 10's if you ask me. It just needs way more Zelda next time. It would be nice to actually have a story as well...

DMCV
Alright fair enough on the truth of the 4 million sales. Like you said though, screw sales! It doesn't have to sell as well as a Sony exclusive. I'm sure it will sell enough for Capcom to have a smile on their face. If not, well Monster Hunter World PC is coming out in September haha. I agree, more DMC3 this time around, not so much 4. As long as they have enough time I think it will be great. All of this is assuming the game is real. I'll be inconsolable for a week or so if it's not. Then afterwards I'll say, "Well hey! TGS is around the corner! I'm sure it will be there! Very Happy" Then the cycle repeats onwards till the end of time.

After KH2
Oh boy are you in for a ride. KH1>CoM>KH2>KH 358/2 Days>KHBBS>KH RE:Coded>KH DDD> KH 0.2>KHX>Then KH3. So 6 games after 2. Have fun!

Reviewers
I've only seen a few things from him, but I agree that I think he goes too far off into space in his reviews. I more than content to just talk with others online instead.

Masterpiece
There are a lot of games I love to bits of course, but even then I'm hesitant to say it's a masterpiece. Not everything has to be the best thing ever.

Devil's Third
Huh that's interesting that the website was born because of D3. I'll give it a shot sometime.

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3 Re: Chatting about games on Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:24 pm

> Fighting Games
DoA2 is basically DoA5 without the super complex stun-states and a ton of parry options. You just have high and low parry here (kicks and punches seperated though if I recall correctly). I tend to just derp around with fighters, I'm way too competative by nature so I tend to go all out, and I try to stop that so that I can still enjoy other games. DoA2, SF2 and Melee are my favorites.

> NG3 
Jup, those bosses are not fun at all. They ported most over to NG3RE though, but you had a lot more tools there. NG3Vanilla also had some 'porting' issues, in that they ported over foes like Van Gelfs without having OT's, thus those guys suddenly had more health than some bosses.
In terms of multiplayer: Nioh. I really hope FromSoft one day learns that the lore is all well and good, but that Nioh's easy lobby system was a blessing they should learn from.

> Bayo
I never got 'into' the series like most others, there was just something about it that was off to me. Really enjoyed 2 though.

> Yakuza
If you don't mind spending a few extra bucks and already know the games, Yakuza 1&2 have an HD version on the PS3 and WiiU. Just only in Japan.

> Remakes
It is always hard to do it justice. A re-release/remaster tends to turn buggy, with original assets being lost or just not compatible at all. Remakes though, I feel they should strive to be the game the original wanted to be, but couldn't. Despite the hate it gets, Twin Snakes was the perfect remake as Kojima sat down and thought "what couldn't I do before, but wanted to do", so he added a lot of slowmotion scenes and the original scene of Snake 'surfing' on a missile was put in - something that still pisses off uninformed fans to this day. REmake is a good example too, using the original as basis for a good new horror game. It is technically just a new game. I can play REmake and RE1 and they'd be completely different games with some 'reused areas' basically.
With REmakes, like Kiwami, it is always the question: do you want to make a new game or just replace the old one? 

> God of Bore
Graphics are very temporary, as far as we know we'll be rocking 20k 5D ultra spectrum next year with Darkseid Vision, making this game an atrocity for the eyes. Ocarina of Time got a 10/10 for graphics at the time, today it makes my eyes bleed. 
In terms of story, I tend to dislike them in games in general since they take away from the gameplay. Like, resources and time and money are put into it which could've improved on the gameplay, but in some cases it also alters it. Gameplay, levels, enemies etc are changed to 'fit the story better', which is just annoying. As you noted, Max Payne 3 can't skip cutscenes. Story should be secondary. So if they require so much loading (some cutscenes load other cutscenes), shorten them! But nope, gameplay is almost a sidepiece to the larger narrative.

One thing I blame for this is a lot of developers, journalists etc in the industry suddenly realizing that they were toy-makers, and felt that was too childish and just wanted to 'ascend the medium'. Just compare a title like Heavy Rain and an oldsk00l Point and Click game. The latter just has better gameplay, period.

> NGB2
Great quote, lifesaver!!

> Zelda
You can probably prepare yourself for BotW2, 3, 4, 5 and Sigma10; I doubt we'll see the end of that soon enough. I haven't played it though, but it really seems like that type of empty open world game that people eat up. Combat mechanics look fun though, have seen a lot of creative stuff that people pull off. Kamiya (of DMC fame) posted a lot of fun things on his twitter with that game.

> KH
The...fuck.

> D3
Yeah, was pretty ticked off reading the reviews at the time I had played it and thinking "you...really didn't even bother did you". I still see myself sitting in a bus in Taiwan thinking out the article and what I liked and disliked about the game. Made some notes on my phone, and here we are!

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4 Re: Chatting about games on Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:21 pm

Fighting Games
Haha I get the competitive part. For me, I also just have so many games I want to play, so spending so much time learning a character or two, along with learning all the moves and timings of 40+ other characters is just too much time to dedicate. That's why I like action games better, because they just give you one tool set to utilize, and they encourage you to take it to the max. I have tremendous respect for hardcore FG players.

Bayo
Well one thing that turns me off about Bayo is how many damn cut scenes there are. If your game is gonna have a lot of those, they have to be interesting. Also, for a hardcore action game, having a ton of cut scenes doesn't mesh well. I'm all for a cool story in an action game, but the cut scenes should be pretty short and just in between levels for the most part (DMC3 is a great example). Bayo's cut scenes are mostly static images as well, which isn't very fun to look at.

The next issue is really just a Platinum Games issue. I really don't like how much shit/graphical effects invade the screen all the time. It's hard for me to concentrate when the game is having a fireworks show. It would be nice to be able to turn those down in the options.

Lastly, I don't particularly love Platinum's "dodge, slowdown, smack stuff" loop or the abundance of button mashing QTE's. They make great games, but I'm not so sure I would put them at the upper echelon of action games like a lot of people do. Having said that, I'll need to finish a play through of Bayo 1+2 to really say. I do like their games, but I guess I would rather just be playing DMC or NG at the end of the day.

Yakuza
I know those exist, but a) The combat of 1+2 isn't enticing enough to just play on their own, and 2) not being able to read the text in a Yakuza game is just annoying, even if I've played the first two games twice before. I tried playing through Kenzan and I got like halfway through before quitting. It''s a great game, but constantly looking at a translation guide starts to feel like a job after a certain point. Yakuza games just have way too much text for a translation guide to be viable. I can't tell you how much I want to play Ishin as well, but I think I'll just wait for the official localization (yes, I do believe it will happen  pirat.)

Remakes
I didn't know Kojima liked Twin Snakes? I always heard he didn't work on that game at all, didn't like it, and wanted to remake MGS1 near the end of his time at Konami. I haven't play Twin Snakes, so I can't say if I liked it better or not, but I can see  why people wouldn't like the missile surfing stuff haha I think I'll just stick with MGS. I think it's aged rather well (aside from graphics.) I agree on REmake. It's basically a brand new experience entirely. I'm worried about REmake2. I'm one of those fans that really just wants fixed cameras with the classic game play. Hopefully they'll try and meld fixed cameras, and RE4 together or something, like RE 3.5. Normally with remakes, I just want it to replace the old game. While REmake is a new game, it's still similar enough that I don't think it's nessesary to go back to the original. FF7 Remake is exactly what I didn't want, but that game won't be out until 2045 so...

God of Bore  
I'm less critical of story than you are, but I agree that every game should be fun to play in one way or another. It doesn't have to be, "Well I'm telling a serious story, so the game can't be fun." which is more or less what Cory Barlog said about GoW4. Pretty much admitting that the old game play was better, but eh, Kratos is super serious now so he can't jump. That's just stupid. Yakuza is the perfect counter-example. Story is almost always serious, but the combat is just crazy and super over the top, and that's not even mentioning all the silly sub stories. It's a dumb argument for sure.

Yeah I know what you mean about the maturity thing. It's almost as if they're ashamed of their own industry. Having a good story is cool, but ascending the medium is only really accomplished through game play, or having some great technological achievement at the end of the day. Most of my attention is towards Japanese game devs nowadays, they don't seem to be too worried about whether or not their game actually feels like a game.

Funny Story: For shits and giggles my friends and I decided to go into a Gamestop recently, and we were checking out the PS4 shelf when this employee comes over to us and says, "So I see you guys are checking out the PS4 shelf! Well that must mean you own one! Then I have to ask the next logical question... HaVe YoU PLayed the New God of War?!?!?!?!1?!" This was right after the game came out and the reviewers had an orgasm over the game haha it felt like I couldn't escape the blind praise anywhere I went. Funny thing is he had never played a GoW game before, so I'm assuming he'll go back to the old ones and say, "Where's my cinematic Dad story!? What's this jump attack? This is preposterous!" He was a friendly guy but the praise was starting to get on my nerves. And just as I thought, most hardcore action fans don't think it's the bees knees.

Itagaki Quote
Yeah this is the only thing I could find on it being unfinished.

Off topic but have you ever read an interview with Itagaki where he talks about how he encouraged Itsuno to make DMC3 in a bar? I remember reading it a few months ago but I can't find it. Anyway that's a great little story. If I find it I'll link it here. Now that I think about it, it may have been Itsuno telling the story haha. Well, I'll find it sooner or later.

BotW
Like I said, I want to see a sequel to the game, but the world size should be cut in half, with way more interesting things to do. It sucks that the game got 10's everywhere because now what incentive does Nintendo have to improve? They made the most perfect game ever. Just change a few things around and release it next year. Free 10's for everyone! Most of what you do is walk and walk and walk and then you grab a collectible or two, maybe do a short bland looking mini dungeon, then it repeats for 40 hours. It's certainly not a bad game, but it's just another game in the Zelda cycle. Give it another year or two, and I guarantee most people will say, ehh... the game isn't really that great is it? Just like Skyward Sword, which also got perfect scores upon release, and now it's considered one of the worst in the series, and the driving force for BotW to be completely different.

KH
All of those are necessary to understand the story by the way. Also, some important plot elements are only shared in interviews! Not in the game itself! Isn't that wonderful? Keep in mind, after KH2, each entry was released on a different console:
358-DS
BBS-PSP
Coded-Mobile, then DS
DDD-3DS
0.2-PS4
X-Mobile
It sure was fun having to buy a new piece of hardware for every entry, almost none of which progressed the story past KH2. New fans are so lucky that they can just play everything on PS4.


D3
Yeah I think the game got trashed way too harshly from what I've seen. I want it to go on sale or something before I get it though.

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5 Re: Chatting about games on Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:20 am

@Royta/Raeng wrote:> Remakes
Remakes though, I feel they should strive to be the game the original wanted to be, but couldn't. Despite the hate it gets, Twin Snakes was the perfect remake as Kojima sat down and thought "what couldn't I do before, but wanted to do", so he added a lot of slowmotion scenes and the original scene of Snake 'surfing' on a missile was put in - something that still pisses off uninformed fans to this day.

Says the man who hasn’t even played the original, nor has concerned themselves with the series beyond the remake and MGS4(which is infamous for its lack of gameplay and having 2 world records for longest cutscene and longest cutscene sequence in a game).

By your logic, The Altered Original Star Wars trilogy with the conspicuous CG and needless alterations is “what the original wanted to be, but couldn’t” given it was done and approved by George Lucas the original director. Something that pisses off uninformed fans to this day(and informed fans, as if one has to be uninformed to be pissed off or disagree with an altered direction, very intelligent way to dismiss your opposition, of course your comment is referring to a topic on gamefaqs about this which all you did was point out Kojima asked for those cinematics to be that way).

Both of these creators have no clue what they want their flagship series to be anymore, both of them gained so much power and so little direction the further their careers went on, they both eventually started to destroy the series they helped create(directors aren’t the beginning and end of a work it’s a group effort don’t you know Mr. Animator?). Just because the initial creator retroactively decided “what it wanted to be” was altered and contradicted the original intent doesn’t mean you have to agree.(not that you would know you haven’t played the original so you aren’t in any place to say)

Your forgetting every else who contributed like Yoji Shinkawa character designs which snake is based on, Gray Fox was only thrown in as Kojima saw Yoji’s art and approved, as well the musicians and voice actors, of which David Hayter was replaced by Keither Sutherland, I suppose that means what snake wanted to be was a Hollywood actor, which is true Kojima has wanted to replace Hayter for years, just as he wanted to quit MGS since MGS1, guess he changed his mind there too.

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6 Re: Chatting about games on Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:42 am

Says the man who hasn’t even played the original, nor has concerned themselves with the series beyond the remake and MGS4(which is infamous for its lack of gameplay and having 2 world records for longest cutscene and longest cutscene sequence in a game).

What is your problem today? One: I played MGS1, 2, 4, GZ, 5, Rising, MG1(NES) and TS. Two: chill the hell down, now.

I'm just stating what has been stated by the man himself. And I agree with him. Is TS better than MGS1 because of it? Not really, but its nice to have two different games of the same game, one being what we originally got, the other being what we would've gotten if technology was ahead of its time. Same with REmake which included a lot of scrapped content from the original that they couldn't fit on the disc. 

To quote you: "None of this information is hard to find". Now stop making a scene.


@kaji, I'll read and reply today :)



Last edited by Royta/Raeng on Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total

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7 Re: Chatting about games on Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:47 am

Birdman


Moderator
What the...?

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8 Re: Chatting about games on Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:53 am

> Fighting Games
It is the number thing to me, just like you I feel. If you really want to get into a fighting game, you need to know how each character works to a certain degree so there are no surprises, and know indepth how your own works so you can innovate on the fly. I have this a bit in Smash where I play everyone, but 'master' a few. But when I see games like Dragon Ball FighterZ and Tekken7, I just think "dear god, that's an easy 500 hours before I can play at a decent level'. I have respect for FGC players, but also feel a bit sorry for them. I rememeber Mike Ross and Gootecks having a talk one day saying that they only play one game, SF4 (and sometimes 3) at that time. Mike played Dark Souls on stream once for about 30 minutes, it was the first time he held a controller. They have a really narrow experience with the hobby.

> Bayo
The cutscenes are a problem, something that Wonderful 101 shares. Kamiya loves building lore into his games and having ton of exposition, probably hailing from his anime and sentai love. Bit surprised though since most of his favorite games are shmups, which tend to have zero story with a few exceptions. Metal Gear Rising, mostly thanks to its name, also had this too much I feel. Despite being flooded with codecs and unskippable walky talky scenes, some scenes just went on way too long. Like Armstrongs nearly 1 hour introduction (with some gameplay thrown in). Like you I prefer the DMC3 ones. Short, epic, good soundtrack. Doom 2016 also has some good ones at the start, but the later ones are just talk-talk-talk. 

Bayonetta 1 is a bit more calm in the visual department, but fights like Lumen Sage in Bayonetta 2 are absolutely nonsensical. It is nearly impossible to see what's going on with two summons fighting in the background and tons of animations playing. Is it epic? Hell yes. But it does sort of promote the dodge-spam.

In terms of their games (platinum), I prefer MGR:R and Vanquish. Really feel those are their best games.

> Yakuza
Yakuza 2's combat is okay once you get into the meter system and how items work, but it still isn't amazing by any means. I really want to play Kenzan and Ishin one day, but like you: I'll wait. With all the games getting PS4 remasters, surely they'll bite the big one...some day. Also curious about Panther (the psp games).

> Remakes
Yeah Kojima liked the Twin Snakes, he was really happy with the studio that made it too. He later went back on these words a bit, saying the game wasn't canon (surprised they didn't make it be the VR mission Raiden had played). He commented on the slow-mo scene a few times, as it was an effect he loved using but couldn't really abuse thanks to PS1 limited hardware. He hired the cinematic director known for this type of stuff himself, and actually called him out for not making them extreme enough - which eventually didn't happen. All voices were re-recorded because of the original voice-files being too bad for modern audio devices, since they were recorded in an normal apartment without any real soundprofing. Gray Fox was recast since he never had a unique voice-actor in the original, and it was too noticable. Some accents were changed since they made no sense in the lore looking back, according to Kojima. The gameplay was changed to fit MGS2, which sort of dumbed the game down a bit though, since it made it too easy at times. Though in this case, like many titles, I don't mind it since you can always go back and play the original. I also like the way Halo did remakes/remasters. Allowing you to switch between versions with a single button was really great. Also allowing SF2 to use older versions of characters from previous versions was really fun (though a balancing nightmare haha). Ironically it is harder to get your hands on Twin Snakes than MGS1. TS is insanely rare and expensive, while MGS1 is 5-10 bucks on PSN.

> REmake2
I really, really want it to be a classical game. The reason being: there aren't any anymore, at all. Before you pray for the 3.5 camera, please play Cold Fear. It uses that camera system and you suddenly know why it was dropped. The downside of a static camera with third-person aiming options is that you'll always be in third person, since that way you can actually see things (if you can move in that mode that is). I'm really afraid REmake will use the Revelations system, not that it was bad but I just really want a new old-style Resi game with the classic camera. Hope its not RE7 style.

> FF7 remake
It uses a twist on the FFXV combat system right? Not a FF player at all (only finished FFX), so correct me if I'm wrong.

> Zelda
I'm really curious about the next Mario and Zelda game, because it will show us what Nintendo's phylosophy will be going forward. Originally it was "never make the same game twice", which is why we still don't have another F-Zero, because they felt that one was perfect and didn't know how to make it better or improve upon it. This is why most Zelda games tend to be different under the hood, and most Mario games are complete re-inventions most of the time. If the next games are 'the same, but just new levels' it will clearly show they just want to make the money now. And I'm really afraid of that. I really like how obvious the Zelda Cycle is btw, already people are praising Skyward, depiste it being hated on release (I still love it though, the intro is just way too long for my tastes). Probably some of my favorite dungeons are in that game.

> God of Sore
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a good story. It is just that it is rarely there, and if it is: it gets in the way. Yakuza is a great example of it done right most of the time (wish you could skip some of the unskippable stuff on repeat playthroughs, auto skip would be nice too). Fire Emblem also has some nice skip-stuff. Press start to skip the WHOLE thing and get straight to the gameplay. Press A to skip a sentence. Press B to skip a scene.
Gotta love that Gamespot story haha! Haven't met a single action game fan that really loves the game. BullseyeStrider is really great at it though, showing everyone how it's done. XLH already ditched it.

> japanese game devs
Ninja Gaiden 3 was a big lesson for that sector. To quote Hayashi, taken from one of my articles:
"[...] in the end, a game that tries both, doesn’t succeed in either. It seems like we made a Japanese hamburger for the West, maybe as a Japanese developer, we need to make good Japanese food... and that's what people are wanting from a Japanese developer,” followed by stating, "the state the Japanese industry is in right now [means they are] doing everything they can just to basically stay above water." 

> Itagaki and Itsuno
I do know he offered him a drink and made fun of him because DMC3 was a 'cute attempt'. The rivalry was always there, like how Sonia in NG2 was a diss at Dante needing saving from Ryu (which is why she has Dual Pistols and always gettin captured). There were rumors (unconfirmed) that Vergil got a katana in DMC3 to diss on Ryu.

> KH 
Jesus. I...have no words. I assume you have to play them all to even understand 3? o_O?

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9 Re: Chatting about games on Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:36 pm

Fighting Games
Yeah I would never want to play one game so much that I can't dedicate my attention to any others, or risk losing my mojo. There are just too many great experiences waiting out there. I love watching tournaments though. Especially Melee, because I'm familiar with most of the personalities.

Platinum
MGRR is awesome. Love that game. The parry takes a little while to get used to, but once you do it's an absolute blast. I really disliked the music in that game though. It was cool how they used a dynamic soundtrack, but I don't really enjoy Pop-punk stuff. I have Vanquish on PS3, but I think I might just wait until I have a gaming computer to play it.

Yakuza
2's combat is satisfying, but the games just constantly improve upon themselves (at least until Yakuza 6) with each entry to the point where Y2 just feels kind of boring compared to 0 with all the styles. I can't believe some fans don't want the styles to come back! It's not like DMC4 where you're switching them every couple seconds to do combos. Not having them in 6 and Kiwami 2 is a major bummer.

Ishin and Kenzan will come sooner or later. People will never give up, and if the series continues with its recent momentum, it will be inevitable. Have no clue when though. I'm assuming they'll release K2, then 3-5, then Shin Yakuza, then I guess after that they may do Kenzan and Ishin.

I would love to try the Black Panther games, but I don't think those have a chance to be honest. The demand doesn't seem to be there.

MGS Twin Snakes
Thanks for clearing that up. I've been hearing a different narrative for years, and it's why I've never played it. If I ever find it for cheap I'll give it a shot.

Agreed about the Halo Remakes as well. It's a shame no one else has tried to copy that, but most remasters/remakes are too different for it to work.

REmake 2
Doing it like a classic game would be brilliant. Capcom has the opportunity to appease every RE fan. For those who like RE4-style games, they can play the Revelations series, those who like FPS can play RE8, and classic fans can finally get a bone thrown their way with REmake 2, and possibly REmake 3. I enjoy all the styles but I think it would be stupid not to make it like the old ones. Having said that, I have a feeling Capcom will get too nervous about it failing and shit the bed. I've heard of Cold Fear before. I'll get it if it's cheap.

FF7 Remake
Yeah it's a lot more action focused from what we've seen. To be honest, I'm much more of a Mother/EB fan than I am a FF fan. I do enjoy FF7 though, so it would be nice to just see a presentation overhaul, rather than an entire game/story overhaul.

Zelda
I doubt they'll make the same game twice, it's just that the game has so many glaring issues that got ignored for no other reason than: "Well it's Zelda so of course it's perfect!" If it were just a random game called Breath of the Wild, it would have gotten 8's. Still a good game, but one that has more than a handful of issues.

Skyward is still one of my least favorite games in the series, but I think I would rather be playing it than BotW. SS definitely has some great dungeons, though personally I think Twilight Princess overshadows it. TP had a really boring over world though haha It's always something with these games. Ocarina is my favorite 3D Zelda (and my favorite game ever. Yes, I know it's cliche, but it's also the truth  tongue ) because of intense nostalgia, but aside from that I would list Wind Waker as my favorite 3D entry.

Sod of Yore
Playing Yakuza 0 on Legend was a pain because there are so many mini-tutorials in that game like club Sunshine and real estate stuff that you can't skip. I adore the story in that game, so I didn't skip the cut scenes but I just want to play the game instead of reading dialogue that's only explaining game features. It also sucks that 0 doesn't have NG+. That was a strange oversight.

I've read that quote from Hayashi before. One of the only times I haven't wanted to smack him upside the head! Luckily we got Nioh from all that stuff, so I'm happy that they're starting getting their shit together. I still want to see them try and make NG4. I think they would do it justice this time. Speaking of quotes...

Itagaki and Itsuno
I found the interview with Itagaki!


"1UP: I'm surprised you rate DMC3 as one of your choices.

TI: You know, just looking at it I mean. I haven't actually played it. By the way, I met the DMC3 director at E3 last year. While I was out drinking at some bar, this Japanese guy comes wading through the crowd up to me, and he says, "You're Itagaki-san, aren't you?" Pretty outgoing for a Japanese guy, wouldn't you say? Anyway, so I say, "Yes, I am. Who the hell are you?" Yeah, there were two of them there then. I remember. I have a great memory [laughs].

So, he says, "I am the director of Devil May Cry 3; pleased to meet you!" and I said, "Pleased about what, dumbass!" I was drunk at the time, after all. He was young, so I slapped him on the back and said, "You just work hard so that one day people will say 'Team NINJA in the East [Tokyo], Capcom in the West [Osaka]'." The product of his labor after that little pep talk was DMC3. It got decent reviews here in Japan, and I think he did pretty well for a young guy. If he's lucky, he might make something even better next time."

Full interview here if you want to read it:
https://web.archive.org/web/20051101214957/http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3140456

This makes me miss Itagaki so much. His interviews were always hilarious even if you disagreed with him.

KH
Yup, every game is nessesary to understand the story. Play KH 1+2, then if you want to continue playing the series go ahead, otherwise you could probably just watch a summary video and move on to KH3 (assuming it turns out to be a good game)

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10 Re: Chatting about games on Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:55 pm

Birdman


Moderator
>Fighting games
I used to play these quite a lot when my brothers and friends were still around but we're all at work and miserable lol. I never got into 2d fighters, but I'm a huge SC and Tekken fan, even though I haven't touched either in a long time. I'm definitely going to get SC6 though and maybe get a quality arcade stick. One of my absolute favorites is the Bloody Roar series, particularly BR3.

>MGR's sountrack
Normally I don't like this type either, but for some reason I loved this soundtrack. It might be because of how over the top the gameplay is and it suits it somehow, but I would never seek out this type of music.

>GoW
Will be interesting to see how many names you guys come up with for this game lol.

>KH
To be honest, I'm only interested because SBK said KH 2 was high level shit if you learned it. I probably won't touch the other games other then KH1 and 3 later.

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11 Re: Chatting about games on Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:00 am

If you only want to play KH for the game play, definitely just stick with 1+2. The others are pretty much complete trash when it comes to game play unfortunately. Horrifically bad boss/enemy design, coupled with one of the most unbalanced combat systems ever. Story wise, well it's Disney crossed with Final Fantasy, so if that sounds cool to you you'll have a lot of fun with it. It's very cheesy though as you would expect.

Check out this video if you have the time, it does a good job of briefly explaining why KH2 is so good, and why the later entries are terrible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUZteAoN3ew

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12 Re: Chatting about games on Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:39 pm

> Fighting games
I love watching tournaments too. Who is your favorite player? I'm still classic, Daigo all the way. Seeing him play at Street Fighter is still magic. For Melee I used to love watching Isai, especially his backstory was pretty cool. Did you watch the documentary about Smash Melee pro scene? Really well done.
About Daigo, it is always hard to nail down the favorite matches he's had. But I think his underdog moment against Infiltration in SF4 was just...amazing. His recent First to Ten against Tokido, where Tokido wanted to see if he stood a chance, damn that was epic. In terms of Melee my favorite match is still Ken versus PCChris and the runback a year later. Guy came out of nowhere and took out Ken in the Grand Finals...so great.
I used to do tournaments in Europe for SF4 and Brawl, but it got to a point where I had to choose: either those games and nothing else, or enjoy other games. Ended up choosing the later, but the money I won in Money Matches really helped with the morgage.

> MGR:R
The music is a matter of taste, personally I love it. Not just the 'epic nature' of it, but I'm a pretty big fan of metal and the sorts so I didn't mind it. Granted I didn't like Rules of Nature as much as every guy, I'm more a "Red Sun" person haha.

> Vanquish
Play it on PS3, or on PC using a controller. This may sound weird, but the game was not made with M&K in mind. Yes it plays better with it, but the challenge is also completely gone. This is because enemy mobility was made with controllers in mind, same with enemy weaknesses etc. With an M&K you are so accurate all the fights are a cakewalk now. It really is a master piece though, it really is that type of game that - every time you play it - reveals that little bit extra.

> Yakuza
While I love the styles, I also kind of like the singular style in 3. I love how the styles-system in Zero was kind of like Kiryu still finding his style, you can see 'remnants' of his future style in them. Still, the system wasn't worked out nicely. It was really brokenly overpowered in Zero thanks to you being able to cancel combos with a style-change with Kiryu; breaking the game clean in half. Majima's were cool, but Thug was a bit too good leaving the others in the dust. Kiwami was a balancing mess, it worked pretty good until you got Tiger Drop.

It's not like DMC4 where you're switching them every couple seconds to do combos. 


Aside from the slow-mo, pretty DMC4'ish ;p You could even cancel large recovery moves with it, like the drop-kick. I really liked this system though (despite how brokenly good it was, you could seriously lock bosses down with it). Lots of custom-combo possibilities, even moreso with wall-bounces. 

> Kenzan Ishin
Yakuza 6 apparently sold the most the series ever has in the West, reaching more than a million overseas which is just insane for a series that had to beg for a digital release of 5.

> remakes
It tends to just be really hard, since files of games tend to be hardcoded towards specific hardware. It has always been my guess that, considering Itagaki was a software engineer, he'd programmed Ninja Gaiden Black specifically for the Xbox - which is why porting it was such a problem (and why it never happened).

> Resident Evil
Really hope it is happening oldsk00l style. If this means I can get a Code Veronica remake I will scream, that game was so amazing.
Cold Fear is 'okay' btw. The first 'mission' is pretty cool and it is pretty oldsk00l hardcore (no map, only checkpoints, barely any ammo, low HP, auto-aiming enemies). But forgettable.

> RPGS
I love Earthbound, but never finished it. I own a copy of the WiiU version, but at one point I quit (probably for a new release?) and when I came back to it I just couldn't get back into it. I really wished Nintendo would just release SNES games on the damned Switch, but for some reason they don't like fun. Would love to play it and finish it. Only FF I liked was FFX, which I hold in high regard. Really high regard. 
I'm more a fan of Baten Kaitos and Tales of Symphonia, with a little Golden Sun on the side ^^

> Zelda
You saw the same with Mario Odyssey, God of War etc. If reviewers say it is amazing, everyone does. But once the dust settles it is done and people are like "eh, wasn't THAT great". I think my favorite Zelda is either Oracle of Seasons (jup) or Wind Waker; just love its art style and sailing.

> Skip cutscenes
You can press R1+X to auto skip a lot of dialogue, but some of the 'slow dialogue' is really a chore.

> God of War nicknames
It is getting out of hand isn't it...hahah!

> Hayashi
I think the guy gets a lot of shit for just trying his best. I am really happy he managed to do Nioh. As an artist myself I can understand how hard it can be to have to pick up the crumbs of your 'master' and then just make it again, but better. Guy had to remake NG1 and NG2 from scratch, and then wanted to do his own thing but was directed in a direction by management (make a story based game using NG brand). Nioh really showed us what the guy is worth on his own with creative freedom and not held back by the shadows of his forbearers. It is why I - sadly - have to admit I'd rather not have Ninja Gaiden come back. The original team is gone, we've gotten two insanely good games out of it, let it rest. It can only disappoint.

> interview
I remember reading that! God I miss Itagaki, like you said. He was such a entertaining guy. He was really western for his heritage, he always noted he wanted to make games for the west - something Japanese tend to not do (JPN is always the main audience). I can just imagine him being there all cool with nerdy little Itsuno there being nervous as hell around this coolboy. There's actually a picture in one of my articles of him, Kamiya and Kojima together drinking beer. Gods together.

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13 Re: Chatting about games on Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:43 pm

Fighting Games
To be honest, besides Melee, I don't really keep up with any other scene. I know Daigo and J Wong, but besides them I couldn't name another SF player. Isai is my favorite as well. I related to his story a lot when I saw the documentary, and I still do nowadays. Like a lot of people, the doc was my intro to competitive Melee, so I learned most of what I know from that. Besides Isai, I always root for M2K when he's playing. It would be awesome to see him win EVO. Hopefully PPMD comes back someday as well. Seeing him tear shit up at Apex 2015 was awesome. Never been to a tournament, and I could only really practice against CPUs, but I still love watching, and I'm still hoping for a Melee HD with online play.

MGRR Music
The concept of a dynamic soundtrack is great, but yeah the music is just really lame for me. Good news is DMC5 will have a dynamic soundtrack, and the music in that sounds awesome, so I'll have a game where I can actually appreciate the changing sounds.

Vanquish
I want to play it on PC because of 60FPS, which I don't think the PS3 runs it at. Also, I can use a 360 controller instead of KB+M. My PC can't run it right now, but I'll keep it in mind for future reference.

Yakuza
I mean style switching doesn't really break the game when all the styles are overpowered as shit. Using Majima's Breaker style will destroy everything in the game, and I played the whole thing through on Legend without cancelling styles and it was still easy as shit. It's a problem with the series as a whole, not because they used styles. RGG Studios just isn't very good at balancing. The games are still a blast regardless though.

Except Kiwami, good lord the bosses are next level shit in that game.

As for the DMC4 comparison... it's not the same whatsoever lol I didn't know you could cancel moves with it though. I'll have to try it next time I play it.

Kenzan and Ishin
If they're bringing over FoTNS, it's pretty much a surefire bet that they'll do K+I. It would be stupid not to.

Old School Survival Horror
Have you ever played the Fatal Frame series? I just finished 1-3. I liked the games, but for me they're not as good as RE or Silent Hill. I don't think any of them ever achieved true greatness. I think FF2 was the best overall, but only because it was a bit less annoying than the others. 3 was WAY TOO FUCKING LONG, and 1 was very frustrating and you can easily fuck yourself over completely. I might try 4+5, but I've heard iffy things about them, so for now I'm putting them off. Overall, a good, but not great series for me.

Earthbound/Mother
Hopefully you can get back into EB some day. Mother 1+3 are great as well (3 especially). Though if you want to play 1, do it with the GBA fan translation with the easy ring. Much better translation, and the game isn't an endless grindfest anymore.

FFX really isn't my thing. Combat system and music is cool, but the story and characters really don't do much for me. Auron was pretty cool though. Reminds me of Guts from Berserk which is always a good thing. TBH I like Dragon Quest more than FF. Much less cringe and it has a lot more heart.  DQ8 is amazing if you ever get the chance. Beautiful soundtrack. Put that on if you ever need to relax.

Never played Baten Kaitos, but I've heard good things, and I've owned Symphonia for years but never played it.

Zelda
OOT and Wind Wanker are my favorites. Haven't gotten around to Oracles. I pretty much like em' all though. Actually, Phantom Hourglass is fucking trash. Not sure about Spirit Tracks,

Hayashi
He probably gets shit on too often, but I think Yasuda is the one who has the talent, not Hayashi. Yasuda directed Razor's Edge, not Hayashi, and Yasuda is also the main director of Nioh from what I can tell, and he's the only one who ever appears in interviews to talk about the game. I'm sorry, but Hayashi produced 3-4 bad/mediocre games in a row, and misunderstood NG so badly it twisted my wrist and broke my mind. He's not going to magically make a good game unless someone else is leading the charge i.e Yasuda. He's the brand manager, not the brains, that much is obvious to me.

As for NG, just give me a remastered collection, and I'm good. Bums me out that we only got 1 masterpiece, and one really amazing but heavily flawed game out of it. Man the state of NG2 is so disappointing. Tried doing a second MN playthrough, and after the first level I had to stop because of the BS. What I wouldn't give for another 6 months of dev time...

Also I played about 10 hours of Nioh, and while I think the combat system is better than From's, I'll be straight with you, From's games completely outclass Nioh on every possible level. It's good, but honestly I'm lacking any motivation to continue. It just isn't very fun to explore the copy and paste levels, and the constant useless loot is annoying. I don't really feel like going in depth right now. Maybe I'll do a short write up on the Nioh topic later today going more in depth. Not saying it's bad or anything, but it's far from a masterpiece.

Interview
I saw an Italian interview with him recently where he said he'll make a new game called "Ninja Garden" haha I really hope he can come out with another winner sometime. I miss him and his games. I saw that pic btw I thought Kamiya and Itagaki disliked each other, but I guess it wasn't as personal as I thought. Good to hear!

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14 Re: Chatting about games on Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:58 am

Birdman


Moderator
>Fatal Frame
I did. One of my favorite horror games though to be honest not for the horror. I always found Japanese horror to not be scary at all. I love FF for its gameplay. There's also so much actual content. Costumes, battle mode with ranks, ghost list. Some like FF2 xbox have first person mode and others.

>not as good
Not that I mind, as I love RE as well but why do you think FF isnt as good? I wont comment on SH as it was too gross for me to continue playing but Im sure the series is also excellent.

>rating the FF games
FF1 is just solid goodness. Most basic combat in the series but that's where it all started and is still fun. It's short and easily replayable. Has som3 of the creepiest and memorable ghosts in the series too.

FF2 improved the movement and seriously upgraded the combat mechanics adding combos and such. It was generally considered the most popular by fans but the fanbase was very toxic and extremely creepy. Of the old games it's my least fav but only if I had to choose one.

FF3 is long yes, but I like it more than 2. Love Rei's house and the rainy atmosphere. Character design are great (actually look like adults) and the combat is good too. Not a huge upgrade over 2 in that department though, but you get 3 characters with different abilities which was cool.

I'd say 1 and 3 are my favs.

>FF1 frustrating
Why? I might be able to help with that. Ive done speedruns on this game for ages, no damage, no upgrade, challenge runs (type14 film only on Nightmare). Whatever issue you had, chances are I can solve it.

>FF4
I liked it. Loved the character design and locations. The combat mostly remains the same though over the shoulder. Few added features like ghost DT, but largely the same gameplay.

>FF2 Wii remake
Pretty good. Uses FF4's style.

>FF5
I found this quite crappy. DoA character design (even on ghosts lol) graphics somehow looked worse than previous games (2&3 are excellent) constantly revisiting the exact same areas. CONSTANTLY. You have not played anything that does this so much. Game is too long which wouldnt have been an issue if it wasnt so boring.

Combat has a few interesting aspects with the gamepad like rotating it for a better shot and to hit  more targets. A few new types of shot but nothing particularly special. The structure is now mission based and you can repeat missions to get ranks or capture hidden ghosts. I dont mind this.

Overall, this is the only FF I dont care to replay or get ranks and the ghost list.

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15 Re: Chatting about games on Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:19 pm

Been a while, sorry. Had a lot of stuff on my plate lately. My gf moved in with me, which all went well but it was a lot of stuff to arrange. But I'll be back in full force soon, getting way behind with my stuff.

> Fighting Games
Isai is a great guy, especially because of his backstory. Such a great and respectful player, something a lot of communities lack I feel. Daigo is still a great player too, one of the few interesting ones to follow imo since he is one of the few with who at each match you know you're in for a treat. He always pulls some rabbit out of his hat. 
I have to give credit to Alex Valle too. I've never seen him lose and be salty (except his infamous debut against Daigo). Guy just nods, smiles, respects the tech on display and moves on. Great guy.

M2K is great too, I remember people not really liking him because of his ... well, personality and nature. 

Tournaments are a weird place. It is filled with fun, but also an extremely high "asshole" level, and it is hell if there's a female around. Swarms of guys hovering around her like she's this long lost forgotten gem of an ancient world, begging for her MSN (when that was still hip). In terms of learning the game, it is akin to a Hyperbolic Time Chamber. I learned more about Brawl in one tournament than nearly months of play. 
The irony about tournaments, for me, was that everything about them except the tournament were fun. I loved the friendlies before it started, the money matches afterwards, the rivalry fights, all of it. But the tournament itself was a bore, bereft of fun, boring tactics being spammed, tierwhoring. After the bouts were done the fun started again, buying coffee, getting some dinner with newly met players and discussing gameplay and just life in general. Taking the trian back home. All a ton of fun!

> DMC5 ost
I really like the whole ranking music thing, that the lyrics pop when you hit SSS. Now I hope they don't add the instant S(SS)-rank moves like all games have had until now, would take it away a bit.

> Yakuza
Yeah most styles are pretty wack. I prefer Majima's Thug-style since it is more balanced, but his Breaker just...nothing is coded around it it seems. You can literally just mash, and the game will have no clue how to deal with it. The games are pretty easy. 
Kiwami is an oddball, once you 'master' the Tiger Drop the game is all over. You can even Tiger Drop gun shots if you know the timing; it is insane and the damage the thing does...dear god. Still I love that 'crunch' sounds it makes. Can't wait for Y3HD.

In terms of the DMC4 comparison, I don't see how they are different. You switch styles, you cancel moves with it, you gain access to whole new movesets on the fly. It might even be 'better' than DMC4 since it allows you to cancel animations with it, adding a layer of tactical play to it instead of just being a fancy way of accessing more moves at the same time. What makes it so different in your eyes?
Note, you need the "Quick Change Clothes" item equipped to do it, which only Kiryu gets. Only works in Zero. Allows for so many custom combos, most are infinites. Especially the grab loops are a ton of fun like Rush Combo (RUSHSTYLE) > Switch to Beast > Grab > throw > Pound > switch to brawl > pound > switch to Rush > pound > switch to beast > pick up > switch to rush > stun-heat action. You can really toy around with it.

> K+I
The whole child-prostitution plot was a big reason I heard, would probably not go over too well in the west. Can you imagine sites like Polygon? Would be a dumpster fire waiting to happen. I think if FoTNS is a succes here (and it will, I'll see to that personally) it might happen though, though I wonder if they'll edit some things out.

> FF
Never played it, but Birdman is a fan as you can see! It is on the list for me, but not at the top, not even close.

> Mother
I'd be happy if I could just finish the SNES one ;p

> FFX
Story starts of way too slow I agree, characters were decent, but it was more the world I liked. The ending still hits me right in the feels though. Never played any DQ, but I know it is such a big deal that the designers are in contact with the Japanese governament since releasing a new DQ puts the country to a halt (no joke).

> Tales of Symphonia
It is great, fun story, fun arstyle, great combat system (broken as hell once you know action games though). I went through my saves real quick and I beat the game 23 times. That isn't healthy haha.

> Baten Kaitos
Aged really well. Beautiful artwork, very unique battle system too that has luck be a thing and forces you to strategize on the fly. Very big fan of the music. The plot starts slow, but it is one of the few games in existence that made me turn of the game because of a twist that I needed days to let it sink in before I dared play it further. It dropped my jaw.

> Zelda
Oracles are great 2d Zeldas, very fun. Nothing too special in terms of mechanics or dungeons, just very well made games.

> Yasuda
He also directed Ninja Gaiden 3, which kind of makes you think. Team Ninja probably just had a big management issue for a long time. I disagree he misunderstood Ninja Gaiden, hell imo Itagaki even misunderstood it at times (just as Kamiya and Itsuno with their games). He just was forced into making something that was pointless. The Sigmas were an ungrateful job, "remake the original games without using any of it" isn't fun, it is brainless and tired, lacks creativity. Of course it would flop, which is why I respect him since Sigma 2 is at least a better game than Ninja Gaiden 2 will ever be, it just isn't as good of a Ninja Gaiden game as we discussed before. When he finally got his own title it was forced to be this westernized feels-a-thon where he co-directs. The guys name got dragged through the mud a lot, but I honestly still feel his bosses are the ones to blame.
I recently read this about Shadows of the Damned, and it can show you just how little influence even directors have at times: https://www.resetera.com/threads/what-electronic-arts-did-to-shinji-mikami-suda51-on-shadows-of-the-damned-was-spiteful.54536/

> Nioh
Nioh wins where, for me, it needed to win: the combat and multiplayer. It is really easy to just boot up and play with friends, and the fighting is very fun to play and watch. Most of the bosses stole the show too later-on, which the game knows since most end game stuff is just bosses. The biggest flaw was how slow the enemies were and how boring and pointless the levels were. Exploration is kind of dead if the next area drops better stuff.
I feel that the Alpha build had the potential to be NGB levels of quality, but they really dropped the ball with the feedback they got. They made a better selling game this way, but not a better one. I really hope NIOH2 isn't just Nioh1 with 'more stuff'. I want faster more brutal enemies, less emphasis on RPG and more weapons. 

NOTE: I always wondered: "what the hell happened to NGB's art style"? The game was a seamless blend of Egyptian, Japanese, Chinese Turkish and even Greek mythos and art styles that worked flawlessly. Then NG2 happened with its ... glowing eye tentacles, and NG3 which was just...HD puke, those levels legit make me depressed just looking at them. Nioh is bland as hell to look at too in most missions. What happened?

> Itagaki
He actually commented on Doa6 saying "camera looks stereotype, but looks fun. Hope they make a good game" or something along the lines.

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16 Re: Chatting about games on Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:55 am

Been meaning to get back to this sooner. Oh well! Here I am.

Birdman

Fatal Frame
Yeah traditional Japanese horror has never done much for me either. The gameplay is decent, but I never really felt compelled to do the challenge modes or anything. I appreciate the fact that the games include them though. As for why I don't consider FF as good as SH or RE, I just felt that FF 1-3 never reached the highs of either series. The highs being Silent Hill 1-3, REmake and RE4.

The Silent Hill trilogy is just a perfect horror series. Beautiful music, great stories (Silent Hill 2 is the best I've ever seen in a game hands down), fantastic atmosphere, great characters, twisted monster design,  and they're also the only games that scare me at all. Just an amazing series. I will say that Fatal Frame has better game play, although SH's puzzle design is top tier. SH3's Shakespeare Puzzle on Hard is just damn ridiculous. Please try them again if you get the chance. If the disturbing imagery is your weak point with it, try 2, it's less gross than 1 or 3, although arguably more disturbing in terms of what the story deals with. As for what Konami did with the series... I would rather not talk about that. Too painful. I can't type through my tears.

Oh yeah and some people like Silent Hill 4. But do you want to know a little secret? Come here. SMOOCH. The game is... TRAAAAAAAAASSSSSSHHHHH. I will concede to it being better than whatever the fuck came after it though.

Moving on to RE, once again the REmake just nails survival horror. Best goddamn remake of anything in existence. Dripping with atmosphere, + unforgiving pure survival horror goodness = one of the best horror experiences ever. As for RE4, the game is a true masterpiece, through and through. If you don't know why yet, go play it 20 times and you'll understand. Just an amazing example of great game design, intentional campy story line, the spine tingling tenseness is ever present, no matter how many times you finish the game.

Anyway I liked my time with Fatal Frame, but it's just nothing that I would consider a masterpiece. Having said that, feel free to school me on the game play, I really just played for the horror. For me, the game play was just backing up, charge, shoot, repeat for 8 hours. Fun, but I wouldn't return to the games for that reason.

Fatal Frame in General


FF1- I was honestly just pissed because I always ran out of film. If you take pics of the friendly ghosts then you can screw yourself over really hard. I couldn't finish the game to tell you the truth. Had no goddamn film, and five bosses before the credits. Just couldn't bring myself to restart it. It does have the best atmosphere though.

FF2- Thought this one had the best story, and I prefer the individual level design over the big ass mansion.

FF3- Would have been my favorite if the game wasn't so long. Sorry it just carries on forever and you do nothing but backtrack and search for specific doors for way too long. If you know what you're doing, I guess it's not bad, but for me, a first time player, I just couldn't wait for it to end. I have fond memories of the first half though. Second half just tried my patience.

Maybe I'll try the others someday, I kind of just left my big survival horror mood so I'm playing more positive games right now. Horror really drains me after a while. Especially Silent Hill. Those games really don't have many light-hearted spots, and I kind of become depressed after playing them. Yakuza cheers me right up though!

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17 Re: Chatting about games on Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:05 am

Birdman


Moderator
Running out of film in FF1
Were you going for Zero Shots? If not you'll run out of film real fast. Only take pics of non-hostile spirits with default film (type-14). This can be replenished infinitely at save points which are frequent, and when used with Zero Shots you can still get insane damage.

Silent Hill
I doubt I'll ever go back to it. It's just too gross. I think it succeeded too well, to the point where I can't go near it. Last time I played it it was horrifying and made me feel sick. I thought about the disturbing scenes for months afterward and even had nightmares.

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18 Re: Chatting about games on Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:50 am

Ya Boy Roy

Melee

Never gotten the chance to go to a tourney, but reading this kind of makes me want to. I'm kind of like Isai though in the sense that I would get tired really quickly. I can only handle crowds of people and new faces for so long before I start zoning out lol Though the thing about the girl is cringe. Christ sake. How do those tournaments smell? I went to a gaming convention once, and this guy my friend and I met stunk so bad we had to go clear across the room to get away from it. It's kind of crazy to think about how many people lack basic hygiene skills.

DMC5
The OST thing is such a great incentive for people to improve. Ninja Gaiden needs something like that so new players don't just abuse UTs.

Yakuza
You know, I've been playing a lot of Yakuza recently (what else is new) and I don't think I would mind a pared down move set after all. It's like you said about the Breaker style, it's cool, but the game just isn't balanced around it at all. If having a single style makes the combat more interesting on the whole, I'm all for it. Unfortunately Dragon Engine combat is balls. Do you know if the FOTNS game has good combat?

Kiwami is a complete shit fest. Not gonna lie, I would rather just play the original Yakuza. Yes it's flawed, but not nearly as flawed as Kiwami is. The Tiger Drop is necessary because the boss fights are so bad. So bad. Fighting Majima also gets a little old after the 50th time, and TD's just completely get rid of him. Kiwami does fix some things about the original, then it leaves other bad things untouched, then it causes issues of its own. They should have been able to produce a much better remake. It's the only time that the series ever felt really low budget and cheap to me. I guess calling it a shitfest is going too far, after all I wouldn't say I hated it, but it's just the first stick in the mud for the studio. Then there's Y6. I liked 6, but it was a giant step or 5 back from 0, especially the combat. Haven't played Kiwami 2 or FOTNS yet but I really hope RGG studios is on the upswing. I'm excited for 3 HD as well. Isn't 3 your favorite? I can't really say I agree but I do think it gets more flak than it deserves. I actually love the orphanage for instance.

With regards to style switching, yeah I guess you're right. I was gonna say more, but I can't type a fucking sentence on this topic without having erasing it every time lol

K+I
Well maybe, though sites like Polygon seem to really like Yakuza for some reason. These are the same people that gave Bayo 2 a 7.5 for being sexy, but love Yakuza, despite having sexy women everywhere you look. I don't get it at all, and I honestly don't care.

In any case, the localization producer Scott, said that they would love to work on those games, but they literally have no room in the Yakuza calendar for them right now. He said when there's open space they are going to re-examine those titles. I assume that "open space" might be after the HD rereleases in the west, and then Shin Yakuza. We'll see. I haven't heard anyone complain about the child prostitute stuff though, and I played through half of each (never finished them) without really noticing it at all so I kind of doubt that's the reason. I just think the numbered titles made more sense to localize then the samurai ones. Like which would you pick? Yakuza 5 or Ishin? Yakuza 5. Yakuza 0 or Kenzan? Y0 etc. They're not as important to be honest.

I've heard FOTNS is great. I really hope so, cause I'm tired of the flailing chicken combat in Yakuza 6 and Kiwami 2.

Yasuda
He directed 3 along with Hayashi. But RE was only him, which is why I brought it up. Maybe my anger is misplaced. All I know is I dislike the games made after Itagaki left, and someone should get a spanking. I don't care if it's Hayashi, or Shinji the company tea boy. Better yet, make NG4, and have it be amazing. Then I will forgive them for past transgressions. Except for Sigma 2 and NG3. And Yaiba. Those are unforgivable.

Sigma 2
Man, what is that awful smell?! Oh wait. It's just this game  tongue

Nioh
Yeah this definitely has potential, but I just couldn't get into it. I keep hearing that the alpha was so much better. Why is this?

Actually very interested in seeing Nioh 2 gameplay. Maybe they'll wow me this time.

Environments
Honestly, I completely disagree. I think NG2 has far and away the best art direction of the series. Black was just "okay" to me. NG2 has Neo-Tokyo, Rainy New York, Venice, Medieval castle during a lightning storm, raining blood in hell, a forest drenched in gorgeous blue mist, better looking fiend environments in general etc. 2 just gives Black the boot in terms of art style. I honestly think you're giving Black way too much credit. The environments jump around almost as much as 2's do, except 2 actually had awesome places for you to fight.

3 was horrendous though. I will totally agree on that.

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19 Re: Chatting about games on Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:33 am

> REmake
It is absolutely scary how good a remake that game is. If only every game could get the love and attention Mikami and his team gave that title. Surprised it never got a remixed Directors cut in its thousands of re-releases over the years.

> RE4
Introduced me to challenge runs if anything else. Still fondly remember my Punisher Only, TMP only and much much more. Such a fantastic timeless experience. It is almost scary how ahead of its time that game was (like so many other titles of that time).

> Tournaments
I'm not that good with groups either, but the fun thing is there's something to do. So if you don't like it you sit your ass down and just start playing and focus on that, always helped me out immensely. The stench, depends. Street Fighter was generally okay since they were more mature (average age around 35), but Smash Brothers was almost (sorry) a gas chamber. Some people probably never bathed even once in their life.

> Ninja Gaiden
They need a good UT system, period. I still cannot for the life of me understand how they nearly perfected the system on their first try with Ninja Gaiden 2004 only to then butcher it more and more with each entry.

> Yakuza
I like 3 the most because of it, just an all around hard but balanced game that allows you to use everything to the fullest. Yakuza6 is decent too but only in one on one fights, everything else is just a mess with you spamming grabs for monsterous damage. Kiwami2 is releasing soon, I heard they fixed a lot so we'll see.

> FOTNS
A lof of Chinese and Japanese players went in really deep. While not noted as super deep or complex, it is widely considered to be their best action game from what I've heard.

> Kiwami 1
It is a fun game but as you note, really built around Tiger Drop. You can even Tiger Drop gunshots, it's insane. I tried doing a NUR on the game (even recorded it) and it was an absolute shit show with auto dodge bosses with zero openings. They did not think it through. Also: Jingu. FUCK Jingu.

> 3
As noted above, by far my favorite. Cannot wait for Y3HD though I might skip it sadly due to the glitches present in the demo. They upped the framerate which...has some stupid impacts such as nearly tripling Kiryu's walk speed when locked on, making the combat way too easy.

> style switching
Feel free to just post your feelings, I'm a big boy. I can handle it.
(be gentle)


> K+I
Didn't know Scott noted that! That's amazing to hear!

> Sigma 2 bashing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Pq_DBtGsc
Twisted Evil

> NG4
I really hope this happens at one point and really gets the love and attention it deserves to be a great title.

> Yaiba
I have no idea what you're talking about...wasn't that in an alternate timeline?

> Alpha Nioh
Boy don't get me started, if that game was released I'd play that forever. Few notes:

- Ki was much more punishing, if you ran out you entered the 'out of breath' state meaning mindless mashing got you killed fast.
- Ki drained very fast, blocking drained it even more
- no real 'stats' on weapons other than minor things like 'decrease ki usage by 5%', no "heal 500 HP when using ninjutsu items" or stupid "ignore block knockback on hit" stuff that cracked the game in half.
- damage was a lot higher
- different camera (more up close)
- moves had direction inputs, allowing you to use all attacks without having to swap in the menu
- a ton more enemies at once, levels were packed with enemies and hard encounters
- Twilight maps were planned for each stage, and would change up enemy locations and give bosses adds that they would resummon. This was scrapped and put into the co-op mode.
- Confusion was way harder to inflict and instead of a DoT just did massive damage when triggered
- enemies were way smarter, blocked, and punished you if you didn't manage your ki. Their AI seemed built around emptying your Ki first and then wrecking you.
- weapons broke and were gone for good when destroyed, so no real 'farming' for a good weapon and forcing you to constantly switch.
- juggles and weapon-switch combos were in.

And that's just off the top of my head. I still have some Alpha and Beta footage on my channel. Note that the Beta already removed a few of the things above.



> Artstyle of Black
I just liked how varried and peaceful Black was. NG2 is like, jesus give me a break. The game is intimidating enough. I admit Venice is great as is Neo Tokyo, but for every one of those there's New York's caves and that jungle level etc. Black felt more consistent. Almost felt like a Metroid game in a sense.
But that's the way of arstyle, it's all in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure there's someone out there that likes NG3's artstyle.

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20 Re: Chatting about games on Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Fatal Frame 1
I definitely made sure to get Zero shots. There were probably a few ghosts that I overused some film on, but for the most part I got Zero. I didn't know you could replenish film at save points. I thought that was only in 2+3? I also don't know where all the extra film is in the game so it's possible that I just missed a bunch.

Silent Hill
Wow. If I had that experience I don't think I could go back either. Like I said, Silent Hill is really the only horror franchise that gets to me, so it doesn't surprise me that it would be too intense for some. Which one did you play out of curiosity? Like I said before, 1+3 are probably the most outright disturbing games in the series.

Tournaments
Yeesh. I've heard Smash tournaments were particularly bad before. If it smells anything like that guy I met I would nope the hell out of there as soon as I arrived.

Ninja Gaiden UT
Man I really need to play NG2004 don't I? I've owned it for years, but I never really saw a reason to return to it after I bought Black. Also thought the camera would be too annoying to deal with.

Yakuza 3
Okay I can definitely agree on this. Especially boss fights. The game really forces you to use everything at your disposal to win. I honestly wish the series was harder. Even if you play on Hard and opt to not use any items, none of the games are really too difficult. That doesn't mean they're not fun of course, but I wouldn't mind them toughening up on players.

I was wondering if you were gonna touch on the lock on speed in 3 lol That was the first thing I noticed too. I doubt they're going to fix that considering the game is out in 10 days. I'm not sure how someone could have missed that. It's not like it's something super obscure. I still want to play it though, at least the 60FPS glitches aren't like KH2FM where they made certain boss fights almost impossible to beat, along with two handfuls of other problems (for the record, they did fix most of the issues later.) It could be much worse for Y3, but there is really no excuse for having that walk speed in the game.

The worst thing about 6's combat, besides grabs being OP, is that whenever someone blocks an attack, Kiryu stops DEAD in his tracks. It just feels awful. In Kiwami 2, it still happens, but much less often, which is a big improvement. Speaking about Dragon Engine combat in general though, I think my issue is just how sloppy it feels. I don't think the more "realistic" feeling was a good change.

FOTNS
Very happy to hear this. I also heard the demo doesn't do a good job as a combat showcase, which is a relief because it seemed kind of meh. All the cool stuff unlocks a few hours in, just like the other games. I'm still worried for the series future in terms of combat though, seeing as FOTNS was on the old engine.

Kiwami 1
When I see bosses like Jingu, it just makes me wonder, who the hell tested this? How on earth was this approved for sale? Embarrassing. The Tiger Drop does make the game less annoying, but it's still a terrible solution. I see so many people argue for Kiwami's combat by saying, "It's not badly designed, just spam the tiger drop dood." Like... listen to what you just said. Spam an overpowered move on everything, then it's good! Thank goodness they're not in charge of the series lol

Style Switching
I was just thinking about it from a perspective of players like donguri, who have hand cramps after 15 minutes of playing DMC4 lol From a casual or intermediate perspective, the style switching isn't that different from Y0. But when you watch those guys, they switch styles every half second sometimes and it's just nuts. I don't think I had much more to say or anything. I was just tired last night so it took me ages to write simple thoughts lol

K+I
Yeah! It gave me a lot of hope for those titles. Here's the actual excerpt:
https://youtu.be/5inbRvTcBRY?t=9m41s

Sigma 2
LMAO When I saw you say Sigma 2 was infinitely better than 2 it triggered me. I know what you mean, but... nooooooooooooo. I saw that you started replaying 2 again though! Which is great, especially because that game doesn't have any soy burned onto the disc. Master Ninja sure is a bitch huh? Those first two levels are real ball busters. Give it a shot on Mentor afterwards if you're feeling up to it, tell me what you think of that difficulty. As I've said before, I think it's a lot more fun. It obviously still has the issues and bad sections that are inseparable from NG2 as a whole, but it's much less cheap.

Ninja Gaiden 4
Well it's like our conversation on GamingBrit's video, so many people don't know what NG is, or they haven't played it despite being a massive fan of the genre. They need to be re released for sure, otherwise I'm not sure how well a NG4 would even perform. Assuming DMC5 is all that and a box of chocolates, that will hopefully inspire TN to bang out NG4.

Yaiba
Oh yeah, you're right! Along with that Ninja Theory DMC game. Worst timeline.

Nioh
Damn, now that sounds like something in the hardcore spirit of Ninja Gaiden. I remember hearing about the removal of juggles. What a shame.

That video is cool, but I'm not a huge fan of minions to be honest. I like 1 on 1 boss fights much better. Hino Enma was actually my favorite boss by far, from what I had played. The humanoid fights are always the best in these games. I hope DMC5 has more fights like Vergil and Credo.

Ninja Gaiden
Yeah I guess it's just a matter of taste. Although since you're really into art I can see why you would appreciate how Black tried to meld the cultures together. I just thought 2's were much cooler to look at, and a lot more creative.

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21 Re: Chatting about games on Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:31 pm

> Tournies
My first Super Smash Brothers tournament wasn't that fun of an experience in terms of the actual gameplay. There was some seriously alpha-shit going on with a few hobos acting like they were tough s*** beating up 12 year old out of their pocket change in moneymatches. Sadly they were pretty good and they nailed me too, I put up a good fight though and it was seriously close, but the trash talk was really annoying. Like if you perfect a guy sure, but if it came down to the timer, you ain't got nothing, but he kept screaming and smelled so bad.
God I don't miss the Smash community. Wonder if it matured? Doubt it.

> Ninja Gaiden UT
Note, it still isn't perfect. Once you get the first kill you can still chain it like mad and it gives massive Karma points. But at least you can't manually charge it. Camera isn't that big of a deal honestly.


> Yakuza3
Yeah I agree that the series should pack more of a punch. Kiwami was, as we noted, hard but for the wrong reasons. Yakuza Zero is probably the best one of the bunch but even on Legend it just isn't that difficult unless you handicap yourself.

They might fix the lock-onspeed thing in a patch, but I don't know. I really want to play the full complete game in 60fps but that part just bothers me.

> combat engine
Give it time. You have to realize that, and correct me if I'm wrong (I might be) that Yakuza 1 until Kiwami were all on the same engine, albeit evolved. And Yakuza 1 and Zero's combat are miles apart in quality. So I'd say give it time, they aren't the best at combat as designers but with each title comes more wisdom from their end.

> Tigerdrop
It wouldn't be so bad if the move wasn't optional and easily missed since Komaki's quest actually locks up during certain points of the game. On my first run I didn't even have it. And Jingu without it was NOT a good time. With it on my Legend run was a joy to behold though, I absolutely laid waste to him. But "spam x-overpowered move" isn't an excuse.

> style switching
Ah like that, yeah I get ya. Yakuza Zero certainly is a lot easier on the fingers that's for sure. The potential in terms of what you can DO with the mechanic is similar (or equal) in my eyes, but it certainly is a lot slower.

> K+I
Good notes and I appreciate his honest insight. I'd love the games, but honestly I get it. Focus on the new projects first.

> Sigma2
Ha, yeah. Generally what I mean though is when I say Sigma2 is a better game, not a better game, is that if you look at it from a technical standpoint it is just better. Less framedrops. Less lag. No crashes. More content. Less stupid areas and weird bosses of that bizarre emphasis on ranged combat. The combat is much more easily enjoyed for 'casual' (can't believe I'm calling people that play NGS2 on Master Ninja 'casuals' but I digress) audience. NG2 on the other hand is cheap, busted, barely works, but brilliant. 
If I'd have to use another analogy NG2 is a Diamond in the Rough. And NGS2 is a fine polished emerald or jewel. Two different things, but that first one man, if only it was polished, it would shine so much brighter.
So yeah. Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 is a better game, just not a better Ninja Gaiden game. Maybe that is a better way of saying it.

inb4triggered  Razz

All that aside though, as with most discussions I will always note: you can play both. I do so at least. Sigma2 is great fun, especially co-op.

> Mentor
I honestly prefer IS ninjas to the gunners for whatever insane reason haha! Mission 1 and 2 never give me problems at all, it was always mission 3 and 4. That stuff just depresses me to no end. Currently at the Test of Valor.

> NG4
I was shocked, legit shocked, that even TurboButton after seeing it said he "just tried the series for the first time". Like guys. Come on. Barely anyone in the comments did. Also pretty funny that all the NG masters that commented were ... not impressed to say the least.

> Nioh
The reason all that stuff is gone is, sadly, because of its hardcore spirit. They did a feedback form after the Alpha and collected the data and published it. 95% said "too hard" with reasons like "too many enemies" and "ki system too punishing". This is why we can't have good things.

> Yaiba
Ninja Theory made a DMC game in that universe? Damn, sucks to be them. Heard they also got a 'cinematic' Ninja Gaiden 3 and God of War, damn. Really sorry for them.

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22 Re: Chatting about games on Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:48 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Every time you guys mention Nioh I feel sadness.

To this day I want to make the character build I had in mind, but as you know I couldn't get past the grinding. Doesn't help that the builds I come up with are weird and always weak, though not by my own choice. Just turns out the abilities I like are crap.

One build was good and I've seen others with a similar one, which was a bow or gun build. No melee whatsoever but all the grinding systems in place to get to the point I wanted were just too much.

My original build used the spear and those spiky ninja things you throw on the ground. The idea was to poke enemies at range and prevent them from approaching with the spikes.

When is Nioh 2 due exactly? I guess it's not worth getting into the first game now that 2 is in the works? I imagine the online will die out and everyone will move to 2 so I might just forget the first game and wait for that.

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23 Re: Chatting about games on Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:50 pm

Tourney
Wow that sounds awful dude. I would probably try to play with headphones if I went to one of those.

Yakuza Difficulty
I think 0 had the best difficulty so far as well. I wouldn't mind handicapping myself on Legend, but I don't have the patience to replay a half hour of game play just because I die on a boss fight. I think they removed that after people complained a bunch because of the part in Kiwami where you have to shoot pursuers.

Combat
Yeah you're right about that. Pretty hard to believe those games run on the same engine huh? We'll see with Shin Yakuza I guess. At least they're taking their time on this one. Gives me hope.

Tiger Drop
I didn't have it when I beat it the first time either haha Jingu was horrendous. At least Nishiki is an easy fight, because I had no health items after that shitfest.

It definitely removes most of the frustration with that game, barring Majima fights. I was dumbfounded when I realized he still shows up even after you finish the Dragon style. He stops being fun after the 10th fight, let alone the 100th.

Sigma 2
Yeah I know what you mean. I don't particularly enjoy the frame drops and dumb shit in 2, I just put up with them lol Having said that, I agree that NG2 is a diamond in the rough, and that Sigma 2 is a fine polished emerald firmly embedded in a stinky turd. It certainly shines bright!




...I mean it also stinks and kind of makes you want to puke, but hey! At least you'll have a smile on your face whilst doing so I love you

As for enjoying Sigma 2 and the original? No. It is a genuine fact of life that it is impossible to enjoy them both. This is a ride or die situation. You're for us, or against us. Peaceful coexistence? Not in this universe. Or ANY other for that matter! Evil or Very Mad

Mentor
I can sort of see why you would prefer IS, seeing as they can't really stunlock you, but as long as you're constantly moving I think they're a lot more fun to fight. I suppose they are less intense though.

Yeah 3 and 4 were bitches for me too. I don't think they're as bad as the first two because I thought those entire levels were really hard, while 3+4 just had tough sections here and there. Funnily enough, the Van Gelfs in the beginning of 3 are actually easier to fight than they are on Mentor, because on MN they're just the regular ones that don't shoot too much.

Chapter 11 is also hard, but it's also really easy to just lead enemies around/despawn then. Reim's guide had a lot of little tricks for that chapter in particular.

I have never ever done a ToV. I just can't be arsed. I hated them in Black (which I also skipped), and I hate them in 2. Just too damn long, and too boring. I like the secret missions better in DMC, although a few of those can be infuriating.

NG4
Yeah it's bizarre. Especially GamingBrit, considering he was one of the people telling others to buy a PS2 just to experience Yakuza 2 in it's original form. You would think he would have bought a used 360 ages ago to give Black (and I'm assuming he hasn't played 2 either) a try seeing as he likes the genre so much. Anyway Brit's video just felt like he rushed through each version once just to make the video, as you said. I'm not really sure if it was done out of passion at all or not. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt seeing as, you know, NGB is a really fucking good game and all lol Who the hell wouldn't like it?

Anyway I'm not sure why these big YTs haven't played them. Maybe because NG isn't suPerCrazymeem series or something like DMC. Whatever. At least the NG community is really tight knit. I guess we don't really need anyone but ourselves, but at the same time, it would be great to see more mainstream recognition. Oh well.

*Goes back to endlessly playing Black and 2 like a normal person*

Nioh
Haha if Itagaki made Nioh he would have just made it harder after hearing comments like that. Hopefully we see Nioh 2 stuff soon. I think I'll like it if they tone down all the looting crap.

Alternate Universe
Yep, and in that universe, Ninja Gaiden 2 was a rushed out mess! Lots of framedrops, IS spam, unbelievably stupid exploding jellyfish, and more! I sure am glad we got our version of 2, which has been hailed for years and years as the greatest action game of all time, and may or may not have saved us from the heat death of the universe.

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24 Re: Chatting about games on Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:47 pm

@ KAJI

> tournaments
Some were better though, later-on the hobos left and most tournaments were just chill places. One thing I did always notice were that there was never a correct balance. One event would be extremely casual with people not showing up for matches and most just sitting in a corner playing friendlies. The other would be too extremely wannabe-pro with constant complaints about a tv not supporting 60hz or being the wrong size as that player was used to playing on 21 inch instead of 23 inch and even more cringeworthy shit like that.

> Yakuza Zero Difficulty
It was okay in my eyes, while some fights were tense once you knew you could lock down everyone from behind the combat kind of crumbled. Legend got a make-over in 6 yeah, speaking as someone who beat Kiwami on Legend I can tell you just how horrible that segment was, had to do it nearly 7 times. There is a very small margin for error.

> Shin Yakuza
Really wonder how they'll turn the series around, and if they have the guts to stick to the new protagonist or if a declining sales leads to Kiryu returning again in some shape or form, like via maybe a prequel.
Did you ever finish Yakuza6? I forget.

> Majima Everywhere
The most annoying part was that his Breaker style was just way too hard to deal with. You couldn't punish a single move safely. The Lightning Fist Counter (?) worked pretty well (Brawler Style) but it was slim pickings. Once you get the Tiger Drop you can sometimes TD him 4(!) times in one attack chain melting his HP bar. I admit the TD is amazingly fun, but also a bit overdone here. I liked it in Y5 where it had very tight timing.

> emerald in a turd
Don't blame me for your bad dinner choices, the aftermath was at your own risk.

> no fun allowed



> chapter 3 and 4
The weird thing is that once I get down to it it isn't that horrible, but there are just a few sections that make me really pissed. There are a few ranged sections that are really out of this world. For instance after the first savepoint in Ch3 you climb up only to find a huge wave of fireball throwing mooks, advance to far ahead and you'll see archers adding to the fun. I actually fell down spawning mages and IS too leading to my Xbox functioning as my house-heater, doing its job by adding to the global warming.
The part where you're in the sewers with archers that can hit you, but Ryu can't since he's obsessed with attacking walls, is also a tad annoying. I wish you could walk and shoot. If only they remade the game and added that.

The Gelfs aren't that big of a concern since I either use XXY>Y with the DS or >Y with the Claws to deal with them.

Note that I still consider the Chapter 3 boss to be the worst boss I will ever fight, in any version of this game.

> ToV
It was a nightmare, took nearly 30 minutes to clear. And for such a stupid reward (a Life of a Thousand Gods). I usually did them in Black since they were fun, but some were just too long there. I did the 120 Berserkers legit once with the Warhammer and that was enough (final run took around 47 minutes I believe). They are weirdly made, just doesn't jibe with the feeling of the series imo. It's just mindless wave after wave. Ironically I found that NG3:RE did them brilliantly. 3 very difficult waves of enemies ending with a hidden boss from a previous game.
Never took a liking to the secret missions in DMC imo, too gimmicky for my taste. Bayonetta's were okay. Rising's VR missions made me cry. And God Hand was too based on certain abilities, I think some were even impossible on KMS due to timers.

> Yakuza2
While I get that you want players to play the original, it isn't really easy to get your hands on. If it was an downloadable title or there was an English HD version, sure. I bought and played the original and a used copy cost me 80(!) bucks. I don't regret it, but I can imagine others won't mind the wait. Combat was also very dated no matter how you defend it.

> GamingBrit and the flock
He noted this was part of a trilogy series, so I'm pretty sure he'll make a fool of himself saying Sigma2 is harder than regular NG2 since enemies deal more damage and then noting he never touched Hard or higher. I really feel that not playing the games through on all settings is missing the point. With his current skillset at the series though, I'm seriously curious if he'll make it through NG2 on Warrior or be able to comment on NGS2's legacy as one of the hardest Platinum's of all time.
In terms of passion, I'd say not. You can hear it in his voice at times that he really has to force it, especially in the intro. The video was voted by his Patreons and money was donated for this project specifically, so I think this was more made for the fans that pressured him into doing it.

On why a lot of players missed the games, perhaps that it is on Xbox and the Sigma games have a bad reputation? Not sure.

> Nioh
I'm pretty sure it will be more looting crap before they go back to a regular action title sadly. And yeah one thing you learn in the art industry so fast is that you audience doesn't know shit. They do know, but they always come to the wrong conclusion.
Quick quote from one of my recent articles:

"Often times public perception is based around the initial impression, and in such a short time it can be hard to nail down exactly where the dislike comes from, which leads to a speculative conclusion. This is a common practice in the creative industry when working with non-creative customers and clients, where a statement like “I don’t like that design, change the color to white” means the creative director should wonder what lead him to that conclusion, and not just simply change the color to white. There’s usually a completely different thing bothering the client, and changing the color to white is just that person trying to come up with a possible, and often erroneous, solution".

Itagaki and Kamiya understood this. People gave them stupid feedback and they said "you're an idiot" and used that data to make the game better while keeping their vision intact. I really respect this.

@ Birdman

The build can be made quite fast, the downside is that getting a good amount of "Unlimited Ammo%" gear is pretty fucking hard to get. Nioh 2 has no release date yet. The game is still decently active though, just not insanely so.

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25 Re: Chatting about games on Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:16 pm

Tournaments
Speaking of TV complaints, I recently lugged a giant CRT up to my room to play Melee on, but I ended up just playing PS2 games because I was too lazy to hook up my GC lol I just wanted to see if there was a real difference regarding input lag.

I have to say, 6th gen games look so damn nice on CRT's. Everything is nice and crisp compared to the dinky monitor I was using before.

Yakuza 0
When I handicap myself, I think it's pretty fun, but it's so easy to just switch to Breaker Majima and do Square, Square, Square, Triangle and completely trash the bosses. As much as I love the series, it really is a jack of all trades, master of none.

Shin Yakuza
I did finish 6, and I thoroughly enjoyed it for the most part. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a HUGE step back for the series, but the worst of Yakuza is still a pretty damn good. Worst thing was the combat for me. Story was pretty dumb as well, I hated the sendoff they gave Kiryu. They needed to shit, or get off the pot. He's going to come back in 2-3 games guaranteed. I don't know how to feel about Ichiban, the main thing that annoys me is that his backstory is way too similar to Kiryu's. Yes, he's more of an asshole, but it's still just Kiryu again. I would rather see Akiyama take the reigns for a game or something. But I'll give Ichiban the benefit of the doubt.

The new graphics of 6 weren't really worth it imo half the time it doesn't look much better than 0. I will say there are times, like when I first saw Tenkaichi street at night, where my jaw just hits the floor, but for the most part I long for the 60FPS of past titles. Soon enough the whole series will play at 60 except for the Dragon Engine games, which just makes it worse.

Overall I don't know where I would rank Yakuza 6. Up until Kiwami/6 I just thought every game was better than the last, with 0 being the zenith, but now I'm kind of at a loss with 6. I think I would rank it over Yakuza 1, but I think 2 onwards were more to my liking.

Speaking of prequels, the series producer Sato said they really want to make a Yakuza 0-2, so I'm sure we'll at least see Kiryu again there.

Tiger Drop
Haha yeah whenever Majima does his roundhouse kick you know he's about to go down 4 life bars. I really only use it to get past all the terrible bosses in Kiwami, otherwise I just like to dick around with all the styles in normal play.

Emerald in a Turd
Hey now, it didn't come from me! It came smushed in the game case. Someone at Team Ninja slipped that in my copy, I swear! I must have shit on Hayashi too much, so he decided to send some shit back my way.

No Fun Allowed
Hey thanks! Glad you agree.

Archer Part
That part is dumb, but it's also very easy. Jump n' shoot the mooks, then climb down and kill the enemies, then hide yourself behind the wall on top of the building and kill the archers. I don't really think it's any worse than destroying the dumbass military base drones in NGB. Though I guess if you are a pro speedrunner you can just skip that part entirely.

Try using the flails on the Gelfs if you have them. Completely rips them to shreads.

As for the boss... yeah that boss is impossibly bad. It's less frustrating in Sigma, but even there you just have to keep mashing shoot over and over and over. Hopefully you had some Ninpo stored up for that fight. That helps a lot, and having the Lunar at level 2 so you can do 360Y UTs.

Ninja Gaiden 2004
So I decided to do a playthrough of this on Hard for the first time. I'm at chapter 11 I think (the swimming chapter I love you ) right now. So far it's not really all that different from Black. The biggest difference is definitely no UT charge. I think I've only done 3 UTs total. So I almost consider this somewhat of a challenge run lol There are so many parts that I had to rethink completely because I couldn't use UTs.

BTW, you said that you thought 2 was really hard, but I think it's just because you've been playing Black recently. As someone who has exclusively played 2 for the better part of a year, this game was tearing my ass apart for the first few levels. I'm not used to blocking anymore lol It's given me a new appreciation for how different the two games are. If you try to play either one like the other, you will get massacred.

On another note, this game has a lot of poor sections that I feel like never gets brought up, and this includes Black. I hate fighting the Zombies in the catacombs, mainly because it's boring as shit, the entirety of Mission 9 is either boring, or a weird Hideki Kamiya genre shift into an archery game, attacks only randomly connect with Alma, forcing you to FS until you get lucky, I think the puzzle crap is useless, and I don't know why so many people praise that part. It's literally grab a stone, walk over, then put it here for the entire game. I think Sigma was correct in removing those to be honest. There are too many parts where you have to sit around slowly killing bats, ToV is boring etc. It's for reasons like this that I just can't put it on the same level as DMC3. It just has too many niggling things that hold it back for me.

I know that some of these may be nitpicks, but I feel like nobody ever acknowledges that Black has it's own set of issues, some of which are as tedious as NG2. I feel like I'll get crucified if I even suggest that this or that could have been better about the game. Once I finish, I'll list a few more.

Yakuza 2
Yeah I mean the OG 2 is great and everything, but you can't expect people to pay $50 for a PS2 ,  an old console, then another 40 to 80 for the game. I also think their complaints are kind of weak. Yes they removed the "city" (which was a fucking street with reused assets) with the radio tower, yes Goda's boss fight arena got a huge downgrade, yeah Crazy Ken is removed, Host Club Adam got replaced, you know I get it. I do. But so many people are finally jazzed about this series, and can't wait for Kiwami 2. The original will always exist, let people play the new one, then maybe one day they can try the original and form their own conclusion. Kiwami 1 was a much shittier remake if you ask me.

As a side note, Scott actually talked about people ranting about Kiwami 2 here if you want to watch. He makes a really great point about the whole thing:
https://youtu.be/07QNVtNdvsM?t=25m22s

GamingBrit
Yeah I also kind of feel like since he doesn't have a lot of experience with the title, he kind of just praised it for the entire video so big NG fans wouldn't get on his ass about it. I wonder what Master Ninjas like JTB or Bigalski would make of the video.

He definitely rushed the whole thing; it felt very sloppy. Though to be fair his old DMC retrospective was pretty similar, and he's super passionate about that series so idk

I think he'll be fine on Warrior though dude. I think you make it out to be way harder than it actually is lol. I think Black is harder on the whole.

Audience Feedback
I agree. This is why you hear people say you can't just do what your fans think you should do. First of all they all have different opinions, and if you try to incorporate too many ideas, then the final project will just feel like it has no vision behind it. I also think the role of game director is more important than some people give it credit for. After months of dev time, DMC2 only had the stinger animation, then Itsuno came in and shipped the game in 4 months. Kind of gives you a new appreciation for DMC2 (well at least a little  tongue )

I also remember Kamiya being asked if would ever make a game with Itsuno, and he said no, because a ship can't have two captains. Kind of goes to show how important the director's vision is.

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26 Re: Chatting about games on Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:01 pm

Birdman


Moderator
There's definitely some aspects to the grinding that aren't as bad as others, but I remember fighting that gunslinger asshole over and over trying to get his stuff and didn't get shit.

I've forgotten all the steps though and how all the systems work. I remember just wanting a gun or bow build (dont know the exact differences) that doesn't run out of ammo.

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27 Re: Chatting about games on Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:52 am

> CRT
I looks damn fine, I still want to buy one again one day just for my older consoles to 'experience them the way it was intended' again.

> Yakuza 6
The graphics and atmosphere were great to me, especially since I'd just come back from Japan so really being able to enter areas without loading times, like the shops, was great. I think they knew that people wanted to immerse more, since the first person mode was really fun to toy around with. 
The combat was 'okay', once you notice you can do follow-up combos after a blocked attack it gets better to an extent, but it still isn't as great as before. The plot had a good build-up but failed to deliver. I knew from the second it was mentioned who the father of Haruto was. And the 'secret' was one of the most convoluted badly told plot twists. The ending was a huge cop out as well. If they had balls they'd have killed him off honestly.

Ichiban's backstory is pretty sweet btw, there's some information available about him from the team already and I like the guy. Also love how he's a complete inverse of Kiryu. Mirrored clothing colors and Nishki as his VA.

For me the games ranked are 0 > 3 > 4 > 2 > 5 > 6 > 1/Kiwami
Note that I loved 5. I just liked it less than the rest thanks to Saejima's chapter being an absolute bore. Kiryu and the baseballer were stand-outs for me.

> flails
My favorite weapon in every Gaiden game. Such a disappointment they were not in 3:RE.

> Gigadeath
I'm pretty good at managing essence so I already had my claws and lunar at level 3 there. But even then with max ninpo there's just so much shit going on. I honestly cannot imagine someone no-damaging that fight without Ninpo and UT usage.

> NGB vs NG2 difficulty
You make a good note, I've always commended Itagaki for not doing the same thing twice. But I think that has always made it harder for me. I've put around 300 hours in Sigma2, but honestly a much larger part in Sigma1, NGB and NG04 which might go into the thousands. It makes the adaptation a big rocky for me. For instance, it is really weird for me to hear you say that NGB slaughtered you let alone NG04. I'd probably cruise through.

> NGB complaints
They are fair ones, but not my opinion. I agree the game doesn't get nearly enough flack for some of its faults (like how eventually the meta is just spamming a combination of UTs, >Y's and wallattacks), but some things always stand out for me. And that is the pacing. The game is pretty fast, and then slows down with the zombies which are more zen-like to fight. Then it is fast again, then a big break with Chapter 11. The puzzles add to this, which is why I miss them in NGS since there it slowly becomes combat > combat > combat if you catch my drift.
Note that the complaints you make can easily be made to DMC3 as well with the boring and tedious secret missions, slowly killing Soul Eaters and Dullahans. Those boring Fallen foes. The constant back and forth reusage of assets to get a stupid little item only to walk all the way back again but this time with a timer or something.
I'm just reflecting, I don't feel those things honestly, but just pointing out they can be made to that game too so I find it weird you excuse them there but not here.

I think Black is forgiven more because you can skip most of the boring stuff if you know what you are doing and that in the end, there isn't really any big slow-down in terms of technical slowdown so it doesn't get on your nerves. From what I remember there is only one fight with Zombies that you HAVE to do for instance.

> Yakuza 2
I can't imagine people crying over that city being removed, not only was it tedious it was boring and added nothing I feel. Honestly I'm just glad they are making it easy for people to get into the series thanks to Zero's success. 
ALso that video you linked was very well put. Wonder what the 'gang' thinks of it. Did users like Brit and Bit every respond?

> Brit
I find it funny that he mentioned twice that he doesn't know where the hell the ninja gaiden fans are and why they don't meme it up. I think that's pretty on point since Gaiden fans tend to be more 'honor and death' like Ryu than the Cuhrayzay humor of Dante.
The video did trigger me enough to start production on a 30 year anniversary video for in october by making a video out of my article on NG's history. Got some footage help from JTB, Bigal, Julius and Bick coming up so that's great.

I think Brit just does it best when he's a guy that likes games that talks about games in a funny dudebro way, since that's what people fell in love with. He keeps trying to be like Burbo and Markybrown, all analytical, but it doesn't sit well with him I feel. Enfin, whatever brings back the cash.
I do find it hilarious how passionate he is about DMC, I was almost thinking his NG review had more DMC footage than NG due to the constant comparisons.

> game director
I'm a bit on the opposite side, I feel people are making the director too important these days, to the point that it is almost forgotten that there is sometimes a team of 100+ people working on it. People talk about Metal Gear like Kojima made the whole thing by hand, or Devil May Cry like Kamiya coded every polygon. Yes they are in charge, but there's a lot more creativity going in it from all types of people than just them. Ninja Gaiden was good because of Itagaki, but it was amazing because of Itagaki and his team.

A good leader and director can make all the difference though, on that I agree.

Quick edit:

attacks only randomly connect with Alma
This is false, to a degree. Alma has a randomizer during her some of heranimations, but there are guaranteed ways to hit both her regular and Awakened form. You just have to know them and not look at the Youtube videos where people recorded a one-in-a-thousand attempt where every Flying Swallow hits. Using FS is a very bad strategy against her imo.



Last edited by Royta/Raeng on Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:34 pm; edited 2 times in total

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28 Re: Chatting about games on Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:45 pm

@birdman Yeah I know what you are talking about, you can farm one of the later bosses for his gun gear if you want. But it gets annoying. The biggest annoyance about Nioh is how long it is. Most of the gear you'll farm will only be good for the difficulty you're on, so once you hit the higher STrong difficult all your collected gear is pointless as you'll find huge upgrades. The general tip then is always to just play until the latest setting and then start worrying about gear, but that used to be quite fast (just two settings and one new one per DLC), but now that you get the whole thing in one go...fuck you have to beat the game like 6 times.

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29 Re: Chatting about games on Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:13 am

Birdman


Moderator
Yeah but don't you need to go through the gear levels like that just to survive?

Even more annoying, you can't play gun or bow from the start because ammo is gone in a second. It's not like how I play bow only in any Souls and can hold a ton of arrows. I have to play some other way I dont like to get to where I want to be.

I did like the spear though, but the way I played, the only way I could enjoy it, was what some would call weird and far from optimal.

Did those spiky ninja things ever get buffed? I noticed enemies got stuck in place when touching them, or would try to go around them. They did pretty much no damage but that wasn't what I used them for. Might need to moves this over to the Nioh topic.

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30 Re: Chatting about games on Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:24 am

@Birdman wrote:Yeah but don't you need to go through the gear levels like that just to survive?

Even more annoying, you can't play gun or bow from the start because ammo is gone in a second. It's not like how I play bow only in any Souls and can hold a ton of arrows. I have to play some other way I dont like to get to where I want to be.

I did like the spear though, but the way I played, the only way I could enjoy it, was what some would call weird and far from optimal.

Did those spiky ninja things ever get buffed? I noticed enemies got stuck in place when touching them, or would try to go around them. They did pretty much no damage but that wasn't what I used them for. Might need to moves this over to the Nioh topic.

Nawh it is fine, it is 'chatting about games' after all. The game offers freedom to a point, if you'd just go ranged you'll eventually hit a few slumps since some bosses just aren't made with it in mind. And in terms of gear, it depends. Your damage will be significantly nerfed to the point that you might barely do 1% damage per headshot on Way of the Nioh if you just keep your old gear from Way of the Samurai (5 difficulty levels lower). Way of the Strong is pretty similar.

If you wanted to enjoy the game, I'd honestly (still) recommend you ditch the full on bow mentality and go with the lance + spikes and just use the bow when you see use for it. Going full ranged also means you'll never really learn how to play the game, how enemies work, how ki-pulsing works. You're basically doing a no-sword-gunslinger only run on your first (and probably only) playthrough, feels like a waste of the game. 

I know Souls allowed this, but this isn't Souls. It is Nioh.

About the spikes btw, they don't really deal damage but give enemies the 'slow' debuff which is pretty useful. Even works on most bosses.

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31 Re: Chatting about games on Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:37 am

Birdman


Moderator
I'm decent with the mechanics, because I started with the spear before I knew gun/bows could be so good. And I'm actually ok with going with the spear build, but only with the spikes because I like weird stuff.

Do those spikes get any better? or can powerful enemies/other players just tank right through them? I have no idea how they effect in pvp.

I had a particular way of playing. Basically, I barely touched the other stances, using mostly mid (or whatever default is) because the first hit was a forward thrust with really good range. I'd just go around using perfectly spaced pokes on everything lol, while attempting to keep enemies back with the spikes.

Even though I only went through the default difficulty and the one above it, I can't imagine doing that all again. I might still have the save file but I doubt it.

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32 Re: Chatting about games on Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:52 am

The spikes as noted are always the same, some bosses will run through it (rare) without debuffs, most are affected. Some later Red Enemies lose debuffs very fast though. 
Eventually when you get Flux II you'll want to switch stances more often to keep your ki fueled up. Mid Stance is safe, but eventually you'll probably use High Stance some times too. Low Stance of the Spear is 'okay', but has some good back-combos leading into Tornado from what I recall. 

PvP is dead so don't worry about that. Some 'challenge' missions you unlock later-on after beating the game will be hard is you play keep away I think, as they keep piling on enemies and if you don't kill them fast enough you'll get swarmed I think. Spikes are good fun though and I remember Phandral (another great user) loving them. He always used them to cover our backs.

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33 Re: Chatting about games on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:41 pm

Yakuza
I will say that being able to walk in and out of every building in the game is really nice, as is the no-brainer first person mode. Having said that, if it were poissible to achieve 60FPS while having to load into a building, I would much rather have that to be honest. In any case, Onomichi was nice, although it felt kind of barren in terms of side activities compared to Kamurocho. Then again, Kamurocho itself wasn't a whole lot better. A lot of the side activites in 6 weren't that great actually. Baseball was boring because A) I don't like the sport a whole lot and B) The entire thing was just a simulation rather than a hands-on game, spear fishing seems cool, but it's very easy and the routes are boring once you know what to expect, clan creator was repetitive and boring, even without the DLC fighters, cat cafe was more of a nuisance because the cats would get cranky if you fed them something they didn't like, then they would run away somewhere, then once you filled the meter all the way the only thing you could  do if the cafe is sit down and watch them. It would have been better if you could play with them ala No More Heroes 2.

Honestly I think the series side activities have started to become very grindy/boring in general, starting with Ishin and the battle dungeon, then 0 and the real estate and cabaret stuff, Kiwami with the Majima Everywhere system, Kiwami 2 brings back the cabaret stuff AGAIN, etc. I miss Yakuza 5's side stuff. Taxi racing, hunting, and dance battles were all way more involved (well at least the former 2) and they weren't just a boring grind for several hours. At least the cabaret in 0 had the parts where you had to teach the girls how to act in front of customers, but IDK even there I just never really cared for the hostess stuff in general. I usually enjoy going through one girl's story per game, but after that I think it just becomes tedious.

In terms of 6's plot, like usual I really enjoyed the characters (Nagumo is one of my all time favorites), and the story starts pretty interesting and I never exactly felt bored by it, but like you said, the twists are very obvious and the secret of Onomichi is dumb as hell. I would agree that they should have killed Kiryu, but the final boss was so lame that I'm almost glad they didn't. You know what I think the main problem with Yokoyama's writing is? He doesn't know who the damn antagonist is until the end of the writing process (which is self admitted by him), which means that you get enemies like Satoru Iwata-san as the big bad in Kiryu's "swan song". There is just no hype whatsoever when they rip off their shirts. I have to say, I think 0's story being as good as it is was a complete fluke. I don't know if it was because it was a prequel, so Yoko felt like he wasn't weighed down by other aspects, but that is really the only story in the series that I would consider genuinely great all the way through. Hopefully that means Yakuza 7 or whatever will have a solid story, away from retarded plot twists.

Yakuza 5 is my second favorite after 0, though I agree that the game has issues. Kiryu's chapter is perfect. I love "mid-life crisis get off my lawn" Kiryu. I loved his Taxi side story, his city was really beautiful, everything in general was well paced whether that be story, introduction of substories, battles etc. The game starts off really stong, but I agree that Saejima's chapter is pretty badly paced and kind of boring... but I still loved it! I enjoyed his prison break, although it took too long to happen, I LOVED the hunting village, and the mini game along with it, Sapporo was a gorgeous winter wonderland, great substories etc. Honestly the only chapter I hated was Shinada's. First of all I felt the finale was coming after Akiyama, so having to play as this wanker for another 10 hours wasn't something I was very keen on doing. His city was okay, but probably my least favorite, HATED his fighting style, his character has an interesting concept but I still found him kind of forgettable by the end, Daigo "hiding" was ridiculous, the whole Baseball scandal story was just too damn stupid that I still can't believe it happened, his side mission was easy and very boring etc. It could be cut from the game and I can't say I would have cared a whole lot.

5 is pretty tight overall though haha

NG Weapons  
Razor's Edge also didn't have the Tonfa, which was quite the kick in the head. If there is a NG4, I want them to have everything from 2/Sigma2, then add even more weapons. All the different weapons are one of my favorite aspects of 2.

Black
First of all, I finished NG04, which I enjoyed. Although as I said before, the differences between Black and 04 weren't really as big as I thought they would be. Biggest thing was basically having no UTs, certain sections were much easier, no boss minions (yay!), and less weapons. Honestly don't really see myself going back to it though when I could just be playing Black instead. Anyway it was a worthwhile experience. Onto the main topic, I actually think the downtime in Black is one of the parts I like the least. Some downtime is appreciated, but so much of the game just kind of feels like a slog for me, chapter 9, and 11 being a particular offender. I haven't played Sigma yet, so maybe my viewpoint on that will change if I try that and I don't like it, but the game is just kind of slow paced overall, which isn't exactly a flaw, but it's also just not really my thing when it comes to games like this.

As for your DMC3 complaints, the secret missions are annoying, but they each take about 10 seconds and you never have to do them again afterwards, compared to Black where they can take almost an hour, and you have to do it every playthrough if you want the upgrades. Not the same level of annoyance whatsoever.

I find the enemy complaint moot, because once again, you only have to fight 2 at a time, they don't keep re spawning for 5-10 minutes and they die very quickly.

I just think NGB had more dumb puzzle stuff in it than DMC3 did. Yes, you had to go and collect and item then come back in DMC3, but there was also logic puzzles like the trial of wisdom, or the light puzzle, both of which are more interesting than just grabbing something and placing it somewhere else. Even when DMC3 did that it usually provided you with a twist. Remember the level where your life is constantly draining, but to balance it you have a full DT? That section was also full of combat, which is why we play these games in the first place. As a side note, backtracking isn't reusing assets. The level design all takes place in one big structure, just like Dark Souls 1, or NG Black. Just because you return to an area you've been to before doesn't mean they reused an asset. Reusing assets usually means that they make one level that is unique, then they take it and put in in this part of the game, then this part, then tweak this about said thing and place it here. Your complaint doesn't really work for me because the assets they "reuse" are exclusive to the part of the game where they originate from. It's just some backtracking. I guess climbing up the tower again wasn't the greatest thing ever, but I enjoy the level design, and the environment enough to where I don't mind at all. NGB's world just isn't as interesting as DMC3's or DS1 in my opinion so backtracking there isn't as fun.    

Putting all this aside, DMC3 also has great characters, an interesting story, better boss fights (name a NG fight in any game that was as great as Vergil), personally like the OST and art direction a lot more, better weapon variety, second playable character who is fun, and isn't forced on you like the Sigmas, better incentive to get better (Style Meter + Mission Rank>>>>Karma + Mission Rank).

Random Tangent Alert

I don't mean to seem like I'm taking a dump on Black or anything, I do love it after all, and it's second best in the genre for me (although if NG2 had more time to cook it would take this spot easily) but I just have a hard time putting it on the same pedestal. For me, nothing has beaten DMC3 as the perfect action game. Really hoping DMC5 will change this though. I've said this many times before, but I believe in Itsuno wholeheartedly. If DMC5 is awesome, give him Ninja Gaiden. We got DMC3 after 2 was a disaster, so I bet we could get an amazing NG4 after 3 if he's at the helm. If nothing else, DMC5 and Bayo 3 should be awesome, so maybe TN will try and get their goddamn shit together. Hoping DOA 6 and Nioh are winners, though that Shimbori guy seems like he has no commitment to a vision. If Kotaku asks him about TnA, he says they're removing it, then if people complain, he says don't worry, then he switches his viewpoint AGAIN. Warning sign. Shaky vision alert. Say what you will about Itagaki, but at least he was consistent with what he wanted his games to be about. Kind of a tangent, but I bought DOA Ultimate for the Xbox. Looking forward to trying them both for the first time. I was trying DOA5 last night but I started to feel overwhelmed by it. I think it would be better to start with something simpler. Plus, I've never tried any of the Itagaki ones.

Back to the Show  

In terms of negatives for DMC3, Arkham is a piece of shit boss. Can't believe that one was approved. Also, usually I don't like fighting bosses again, but DMC3 gives you the option to pick which fights you want to do, and I find most of them pretty fun, so I don't mind it here.

Yakuza 2
Yeah the city removal was such a non-issue it's not even funny. Bit and Brit never responded as far as I know. Anyway who cares. It's great to see so many people excited for the series.

Ninja Gaiden 30th
I'm super hyped for this video of yours! I've had an account over on NGrealm for a while but I've never actually used it yet. I saw your post over there though. Thank you for being there when TN/Koei Tecmo won't. I bet they don't even know NG has an anniversary this year to be honest. Shitheads. BTW, I saw you mention something about Bigakski having beers with other NG players, and I think I know the pic. It's in this video, about 8 seconds in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsNOrqEpdio&t

I'm sure Bigal will let you use it.



I agree about Brit, it's much better when he just wears his heart on his sleeve and talks about something he really likes, which you could tell felt a little forced with the NG video. I hope he remakes it later on when he has sufficient experience with the series.

Director
I have to be honest with you Roy, about 5 seconds after I posted my opinion on this, I already disagreed with what I said, and I'm very guilty of putting different directors on a pedestal, like a lot of people. Or dumping on one person like Hayashi for that matter.

Anyway your opinion here lines up more with what I actually feel about this subject.

Alma
JTB did a boss fight series on his channel a while back, which is what I used, although not for Alma 1 or 2. Mainly because I couldn't really do his strats in NG04. I'll try something new whenever I play through Black again though. Feel free to give me tips on what I should try next time.


BTW have you ever seen JTB's single segment, no save MN speedrun? This run is critically underlooked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzkzGIQ1txQ

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34 Re: Chatting about games on Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:49 pm

> Yakuza 
I agree that the mini-games have gotten worse over time, and feel more like filler than anything else. I really loved Pocket Circuit Racing in both its iterations. The rockpaperscizzors mini-game with all the damsels was also pretty enjoyable in how they implemented the mindgames into it (every enemy seems to have a pattern, it is pretty cool). As you noted the taxi work in Y5 was great, and I loved Shinada's baseball minigame.
I feel that the Y6 baseball minigame really was for Japanese people, as it should, the game is made for them first. Baseball is huge there. Spearfishing was great for the first few runs but then you are done for life. Clan Creator was the most boring thing ever, never again. Yakuza Zero's phone game was hilarious though.

I didn't mind the hostessclub mind you, though it was a bit too repetative at times. The boss fights were cool though, loved those. Kiryu's estate had fun bosses, but the rest was aweful. Some neat SubStories though.

> no clue who the villain is
Didn't know that, but it shows. Yakuza 2 still has the best plot in the series imo, if only thanks to a magnificent villain and excellent side character cast. The love interest was great, shame she got removed because her actress wasn't liked. 
Yakuza 6's final antagonist wasn't one I liked. Yakuza 5's already came out of left field, but I quite enjoyed that to an extent. Yakuza 4 had the best set I feel, while Yakuza 3 was okay and 2... well 2 is 2. Zero really is the most all round best though. I think Zero did show just how well a story they can craft it they just let go of the series conventions and try something new.

> Shinada
I hated him at first too, but once he's leveled he became one of my favorites to play with. He has such a fun fighting style. He's horrible against bosses though thanks to his grab focus. I agree the whole Daigo 'undercover' was absolutely nonsensical.

> Daigo
Speaking off, I never liked how horrible he was at his job. I know Kiryu hand picked him and left him out to dry at times, but the guy is really terrible at his job. I loved how at the beginning of Yakuza 3 he was shown to be competent and honorable, going as far as canceling a huge deal for the Tojo Clan just so they wouldn't bother Kiryu. Then in 4 he's suddenly "screw that", and in 5 he's getting wrecked left and right. Lastly in 6 he's barely there. Shame. I heard the Tojo Clan is gone in Shin Yakuza, having been destroyed by the Omi Alliance. Guess we'll never see him again...

> NG weapons
Agreed, I really want the kitchen sink at this point. Top of my list is the Sai, never has that weapon been done correctly. Also wouldn't mind the return of 'echo weapons', slightly similar weapons with minor variations like Kitetsu and Nunchucks.

> NG04
I sometimes make it sound better than it is, it is just refreshing to play at times. It feels very well paced and each fight well designed, a thought through UT system etc. Fun costumes like the Ninja of the Future.

> Black
To each their own, I can agree some of the puzzles can get on your nerves but they are such an easily skippable non-issue it isn't a big deal for me. I think that also has to do with my playstyle, I play very througouh. I don't skip fights, try to always get max money, save often, get all the items, really play that optimal style. So that downtime for me is just more chance to score easy essence from Fish and take a break.
Sigma honestly made some of those parts more annoying by adding fights everywhere and filling fights too much (making most timers undoable).

Note that Sigma changed a lot in terms of mechanics too. Berserkers are a complete joke now for instance, while other things are much worse. Chapter 1 on MNM is the hardest in Sigma by far. Some fights have 4x the enemy count.

I can understand that the slower pace isn't your style, would also explain the adoration for NG2 and DMC3.

> Fiend Challenges
I agree they are way too long. I like them, but they are too long. With most I just decide early on if I'll do them yes or no. The Stadium and Great Bridge are just too nutty. 120 heavy hitting enemies. D'ya think that was enough Itagaki? NG2 at least lets you buy missed rewards.

> DMC3
Note that we're talking extreme semantics. If I was asked for my top 5 favorite action games, the list would probably be Vanquish > NGB > DMC3 > MGR:R > PoP:WW or something along those lines. I love both games a ton. DMC3 just has more minor issues I take...well...issue with. In NGB I can somehow forgive them. Call it favorites, maybe I just like the style more. Can't say.
DMC3's cube-room, the angels, the Arkham boss, Gigapede (sorry, never liked him), those annoying birds. I mean I got SS on most stages on DMD except mission 3 ( I think ), I love the game, but as you note it has issues. 

I admit the game has a much better story, probably one of the better ones in gaming imo. Vergil was a great boss, very well padded. In terms of mythos I always got hype during the Doku fight but I'm pretty sure I'm the only guy in existence, I just love those drums a lot. Music and art goes to NG for me. I love DMC3's Arabic influences though. Second Playable character never sat well with me. I'm always on the flip side with them, I'd rather they focus on giving Dante more toys. That said, he was very fun to play. Did you ever delete your Dante save by accident with your Vergil save? I was this close man, almost pressed "Yes" on the overwrite question by accident.
With Capcom having a history of ripping assets of their older games to quickly make new characters (Lady & Trish), I'm hoping they make something fresh for DMC5.

To note again, I love DMC3. Top 3 games in the genre for me if Vanquish hadn't come along. Excellent combat, fun music, looks great, plays great and is actually challenging. 

If there's one thing I dislike about Devil May Cry's legacy as a whole is how it is being remembered for how you could play a single player Marvel vs Capcom in it against a bad AI with modded infinite health. More and more are the combos just becoming extremely impractical for, sorry, 'muh expression'. If its fun, go for it, but with most videos by most players I keep thinking "I'm looking at attempt 1003829, I love that you did it at last, but it just isnt' practical at all".
I remember being so disappointed when Donguri uploaded a Bloody Palace run, and it turned out every room was edited to show the best attempt. I just want to see those guys play at their best, not emulate a TAS. Enfin, that's a personal note about DMC's community, not really about the game itself.

> style meter
On the surface, yes. In the end both are pretty bad once you get down to them. They both promote the most lazy sense of play imaginable with NGB's karma system promoting nearly brainless UT spam and the Style Meter plays immense favorites and well, we all know the SpiralRG runs on the web. I hope they balance this one out a bit more in DMC5. The meter is still a great idea but it is too exploitable still.

> Itsuno
The more I hear about the game the more I am starting to think it is going to be a slightly more finished DMC4 with things thrown in to attract a new casual audience. Reason being that I'm trying to filter out most of the news I'm getting on the game, I really don't want them to fuck this up. 

> Itsuno on NG
I think Itagaki would have a meltdown so big he'd come back to Team Ninja. Capcom in the West, Team Ninja in the East - he said. I honestly would love Tango to try their hands on Ninja Gaiden. That said, I think it would be a unique challenge for Itsuno, really focus on making a brutally difficult and agressive game that shows no mercy, no emphasis on style, no weapon switching, a different style of cool (more stoic instead of "YAEHHAHAH"). Might give him some new perspectives? I don't want Kamiya near it though, keep your bullet hell shooter missions out of Ninja Gaiden. Those tanks were bad enough...

> DoA6
Been playing a lot of DoA2 again lately with friends (which is Ultimate for Xbox), it is still my favorite fighter ever made (controversial opinion haha). Just so simple, few moves, holds, no supers, no meter management, just easy to pick up and have a good time with. DoA later-on became, as you noted, way too complex. It can take up to an hour or two just to get through all the DoA5 tutorials, it is insane. DoA2 I can teach a guy within 3 minutes and we're ready to play. Also like how fast the battles are done, they don't last for ever. 

> 30 year ani
I have the first 'sketch' for Chapter 1 online, if you want to give it a test viewing be my guest and I'll PM it to you. Otherwise, you can expect the full video come October. Cheers for the Bigalski vid, those are exactly the pictures I meant!

> Brit
Apparently he got pretty tacky in the comments, with some of the Gaiden elite laying the smack on him and him feverishly going against it. Turbo_Button tried to calm it down, didn't work.

> Alma
The first one can be wrecked pretty fast. Kill a Bast fiend before it and chain the essence to the fight. At the start she can't move yet so you can do a 360OLUT in her face for a nice 25-40% damage. For punishes, if you hit her out of the air do Firewheels > XYXXX (drop combo) > YXXX (drop combo) > YXXX. The Flame Wheels tends to juggle her for you.
For Awakened Alma the Kitetsu is generally the safest imo. XXY after dodging her dash attack deals great damage. You can try the ET trick, but it is very risky and you will probably eat some damage.

> Single Segment MN Speedrun
Jesus, that's pretty sick. I was planning on doing a single segment run of each stage, but this is ridiculous. Amazing showcase, watching it as we speak.

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