Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII

Very good ARPG. Don't know how much of it it's good because of XIII and XIII-2 but there is a lot to like. Love how snappy everything is, good customization options, just attacks/guard/evade, not braindead healing, multi-elemental spells, good enemy design.
Not a biggest fan of the debuffs, since they're just "enemy deals less damage, enemy deals more damage", and not only that but they give a pretty big damage boost, so you basically always want to use them, and since you can only equip 12 abilities it's not great.

Also I've seen some of the critiques that FF fans have with this game and it's the usual nonsense. Story (lmao) and sidequests are the biggest offenders, but I didn't find the latter bad. There are a million of them but the game doesn't expect you to complete all of them and to complete them all here right now. You can just accept them and then you'll complete them naturally over the course of the game. Some of them are boring as fuck and require a lot of back and forth from point A to B and viceversa but I was expecting worse. I also like the freedom the game gives you, and RPG fans should go nuts for that but they instead cry about muh time limit, which is barely a factor if you manage your Chronostasis correctly (and it doesn't take a genious to figure out how).

The Sit Down Meter is also here but it's well implemented. Every enemy has a different way of getting staggered and it works mostly as a kind of superarmor, since you can still deal heavy damage without staggering, but doing that opens some possibilities, like launching (which you can do on pretty much everything).
I completed 2/5 main quests for now and I'm about to complete the third one. Should take about 40 hours to complete everything.

.

The game is on Gamepass last I checked, gave it a shot a while back and it seemed right up my alley but wasn't in the mood for such a lengthy game. Will definitely play it in the future.

>side quests do nothing but increase stats
This true? I read that they unlock the secret final day where you can go to the secret dungeon. If that's not the case then yeah, it's a bummer.

Decided to respond to the LR related points in the other topic here.

>this on the backlog
If you do get to it, you'll be one of the few (if not the only one) who played the good FF games with Stagger in them. I think the other one would be Infinity, but don't remember if he ever played LR.

>LR is badly optimized
Maybe. But likely nowhere near as much as XIII-1.

>Will try it when I get all the stuff that I need.
Is it taking a long time to get what's required to use it? One challenge in the game involves trying to beat Aeronite on the earliest possible day, with no crafting or stat boosts IIRC. The guy who did this didn't take advantage of the status ailment thing, so there are two possibilities, he wanted to fight the boss 'fair and square' (even though that wasn't explicitly mentioned in the rules), or you simply don't get the setup needed to do it by the time the superboss becomes available for the first time.

>archive.org
Good idea.

>30+ enemies
That sounds like a good deal of variety to me. I heard KH2 is on the higher end of variety (60 enemies), while not even Action proper has that much enemies typically.

>multi-elemental spells
This is one of the things I wanted to get a taste of. But now I can't. Why, PC?

>not big on debuffs
I see. Don't think I have ever heard anyone touching on this part in specific, so duly noted.

>the usual nonsense
Par for the course with that lot. Like trashing XII IZJS/ZA because you can set up the game to play itself, and even V for (brace yourself) not being anywhere near as popular or as 'revolutionary' as VII was.

>story
Of course.

>sidequests
>not bad
Good to hear. Though I fear Chaos Legion is going to spoil me (no puzzles or other distractions so far, just pure combat).

>expecting a certain behavior from RPG fans
If you think they'd react one way, go with the opposite. You're going to be right most of the time this way.

>time limit
Even I have heard about how it isn't that bad. Several times. And I wasn't actively researching about this one aspect.

>Every enemy has a different way of getting staggered and it works mostly as a kind of superarmor, since you can still deal heavy damage without staggering, but doing that opens some possibilities, like launching (which you can do on pretty much everything).
This also caught my attention. Even at the beginning of the game, you can see that the initial enemies have different rules about this, and I really wanted to see how they would go about it with other enemy types.

Overall, how are you liking it in comparison to VII:R (and Intergrade)? Do you like one implementation of the SDM better than the other?

>the good FF games with Stagger in them
I'd be missing XIII too, and I heard good things about it from SBK. Wonder how XIII-2 is, since the fan consensus is completely and utterly useless in these cases.

>nowhere near as much as XIII-1
This is why I didn't get it on PC yet. Maybe I'll try emulating it, but I want to try the port first.

>Is it taking a long time to get what's required to use it?
I checked what's needed and in order to use it at max power you need to be at NG+. You can do a lesser version of it (like 50-100% more damage rather than 250%) pretty early if you know what to do. I really like how open the game is in terms of routes to get what you want. You need to be pretty familar with it though.

>you simply don't get the setup needed to do it
Maybe he wanted a fair fight. I'll report on this when I'll get the stuff needed to perform the tech (and train enough to pull it off).

>not even Action proper has that much enemies typically
You get around 20 enemy types usually (not counting recolors), which is enough in most cases. It also depends on the game lenght. MGR has like 10 enemy types but the game is so short it's not really a problem (plus they're well designed).

>I wanted to get a taste of
You have Element/Elementa which does all 4 types of elemental damage. There is also a spel (Imperil) which lower by one level the enemy elemental weaknesses (so if it's neutral he'll become weak, if it's resistent he'll become neutral etc.). You can do some pretty cool stuff.

>duly noted
I might be turning around on them, since I got Imperil which is pretty cool, and I'd have to experiment with some other stuff like Curse (which makes enemies more likely to get interrupted if you attack them), but Deprotect and Deshell are pretty boring and powerful (reduce physical/magic resistence by 33%).

>trashing V because it ain't popular enough
And they get mad if you point out how casual they are. One of the main critiques of LR is that the game has worse graphics than XIII and XIII-2. Who fucking cares about this stuff.

>Chaos Legion is going to spoil me
After playing shmups for a bit it has been a bit of a whiplash playing some ARPGs like NEO and LR, but if the side activities aren't actively terrible and the core is good there isn't much of a problem.

>I wasn't actively researching about this one aspect
It's one of the most talked about things because you're forced to engage with it and it's not core combat (which people hate to talk about).

>how are you liking it in comparison to VII:R
I think that LR might be better. VII:R has more abilities you can use per fight, more enemies and bosses and some other stuff like Summons and Limits, but LR is more skill focused (more Action than RPG, but also offers way of completely * or almost completely * avoiding damage), has some more flavor thanks to stuff like multi elemental spells, some creative debuffs, higher difficulty and doesn't waste as much time with the side stuff. I could see Rebirth being as good as LR if they make the game more actiony a-la Yuffie in Remake.

>which SDM is better
It's a wash for me. I like how you constantly need to change your abilities and strats in LR in order to stagger the enemies, but I also like how in VII:R you need to chain your stagger abilities correctly (and manage your ATB) while also having some variation in how you stagger (since enemies differ in when they are more vulnerable to getting staggered).

>XIII too
Ah, right.

>wonder how XIII-2
I can tell you that this is where Dante and SBK differ. The former thinks it's better than XIII-1, while the latter says the only good thing worth exploring is Gilgamesh. Guess you'd have to see for yourself if you have time, though from what I've heard about both, I'm more inclined to agree with SBK.

>fan consensus
"Both (and LR) suck. Just play a real FF game like VII. Oh and avoid XII while you're at it too."

>emulating it
Wouldn't be surprised if it performs better than the native version (would be highly amusing).

>NG+
...Oh. So that means it's definitely not available by Aeronite (at least the stronger version). Can't even get the required stuff on Hard (where you get better stuff earlier)?

>50-100/250%
So this means the speedrun video was mostly taking advantage of maxed stats then... I see. Still, these modifiers should come in handy either way.

>how open the game is
Even more baffling that casuals don't like it, but you already went over the reason.

>report
As ever, looking forward to it.

>train enough to pull it off
I wonder if it requires a lot of execution.

>also depends on game length
True.

>MGR has like 10 enemy types but the game is so short it's not really a problem (plus they're well designed).
Sounds encouraging.

>Element/Elementa
Yeah, those were among the things I wanted to use (though these in particular had priority).

>Imperil
I've heard about it (from SBK). Good stuff.

>turning around
Oh?

>Curse
Never heard of this.

>Deprotect/Deshell
Definitely seems like the game wants to use them as often as possible (even in XIII-1). Do they stack?

>And they get mad if you point out how casual they are.
Bonus points if this was said right after they called an Action game a 'button masher with infinitely less room for tactical approaches'.

Someone unironically said that VII was superior to KH because "healing in the latter can be done via muscle memory, while the former is better because I must navigate through menus to do so".

>One of the main critiques of LR is that the game has worse graphics than XIII and XIII-2.
I should have expected nothing less from these 'fans'.

>Who fucking cares about this stuff.
B-but muh I M M E R S I O N!

>shmups
How were they?

>but if the side activities aren't actively terrible and the core is good there isn't much of a problem.
I'll take your word for it if you're just coming from playing shmups.

>one of the most talked things
Which is even more bizarre that they whine about this one aspect at all.

>which people hate to talk about
Exactly.

>LR might be better
Oh?

>more Action than RPG
Definitely sounds like music to my ears. Now I'm looking forward to see your take on all three (LR, VII:R, and CHAOS), though Rebirth might come out by then.

>doesn't waste as much time with the side stuff
You mean VII:R is actually worse in this aspect?

>if they make it more action-y like in Intergrade
We'll see. Heard they want to go all out with Part 3. Assuming they don't screw anything up, that one should at least be on par if Rebirth doesn't quite meet the same standard.

One more thing I'm curious about is if Rebirth will render Remake obsolete.

>a wash
So there's definitely reasons to explore both games to see what they offer. Great.

I bought it after watching a combo video and dropped it after few hours for a couple of reasons

It stuttered a lot. I tried running it at lowest settings but it made no difference.

Outfit change was cumbersome. Instead of mapping the outfit to separate buttons they mapped it two buttons so you have to cycle through which is annoying.

Dull traversal. Nothing interesting happens between combat encounters. The game didn't need to be open world. I enjoyed the combat but couldn't stand traversing the world.

@Wright
>SBK favors XIII-2 over the first
Interesting. This is the fan consensus too as far as I’ve seen. The Pokémon stuff intrigues me but hopefully isn’t too much of a time waster.

>Can't even get the required stuff on Hard
Some stuff can be acquired on your first playthrough too, but it gets unlocked in the later days (only now on day 9-10 I’ve seen a Rapier being sold, which is a weapon that buffs Status Ailment Damage).

>these modifiers should come in handy either way
The strategy should work the same, just slower. I’m fighting Aeronite (without looking up strats, so it has been pretty tough) and apparently the most important part is staggering him in time (and he has no particular stagger conditions aside from just attacking), because if you don’t he will just fly away and you’ll have to retry the next day. Also if you stagger him multiple times his defenses will lower and will allow you to deal decent damage. So far I’ve been able to stagger him twice and the in game info reports three staggers total. Still dealt piss poor damage, so maybe the third stagger will be the key.

>I wonder if it requires a lot of execution
I didn’t do it yet but I can already tell it’s tricky. You need to switch Garbs fast, with a certain rhythm and for some time. Not impossible but you have to train your muscle memory for it.

>Good stuff
I’ve also seen that enemies that are resistant to Status Effects require more casts of a certain debuff spell in order for it to work. Imperil works against Aeronite but you have to cast it three times. Prefer this to RNG based resistances.

>the game wants to use them as often as possible
Yep. There is some overlap between Imperil and Deshell (since they both increase your magic damage, just in a different way) but they’re too good to pass up. Still, Imperil, Curse, Defaith and Debrave (greatly decrease enemy Magic and Physical attack) are interesting enough to make up for it.

>Do they stack?
Yes, Imperil and Deshell too, so you can increase your magic damage by a lot if you stack them.

>infinitely less room for tactical approaches
No you see, doing actions in real time instead of choosing them from a menu makes them a lot less tactical.

>I must navigate through menus
Truly incredible arguments. Also I’ve seen you fighting the good fight on GFAQs, keep it up.

>How were they
Very, very hard, but also very fun. I played mostly Mushihimesama Futari, Touhou 8 and Crimzon Clover (all three bullet hell) and dabbled a bit in Ketsui. Touhou just requires a bit of reading of the patterns, while the rest also requires proper routing during the levels, and I find that a bit boring (but it’s also understandable). Still trying to 1CC Futari, I’m getting there.

>take your word for it
You can also skip them if you find them boring. You only get some stat boosts and cosmetics anyway. A couple of them give good stuff like Garbs, but those are few and far between (and can be looked up anyway so you don’t miss them).

>Rebirth might come out by then
Don’t know if I’ll play it at day one. I usually wait for sales (or a crack), but I could make an exception this time. Hopefully I’ll have the time.

>VII:R is actually worse in this aspect
Unfortunately. You get unskippable minigames, bike sections (that you can skip on Hard at least) and lots of walkie talkies. It’s not Movierok levels but it’s still annoying.

>should at least be on par if Rebirth
If it’s the same team, with the same base, same engine and done in a reasonable amount of time it should be. We have a rare opportunity here with a pretty good game (VII:R) getting two sequels with these conditions (which means lots of iterative improvements and expansions), so I have high hopes. When vidya sequels suck is usually because of team changes or because too much time has passed.

>if Rebirth will render Remake obsolete
I can definitely see that, but I think Remake will still have some cool stuff exclusive to it (like the Self-Destruct shenanigans).

@Monsoon
>stuttered a lot
I have the same problem while in certain city areas, but it’s super smooth during combat.

>they mapped it two buttons so you have to cycle through which is annoying
Kinda like Vergil.

>Dull traversal
This is true, but there is enough combat to keep things interesting. You get a Chocobo in the Wild Lands and can slide on dunes in the Dead Dunes. They also made some side quest address this issue, but overall I agree.

Well, I'm stuck at Aeronite. Changed a few things and managed to stagger him 4 times pretty easily. At the 4th stagger he remains downed and takes a lot more damage. What's the problem? He doesn't take enough. He takes around 25K damage from Attack lv.3 with him debuffed and Lightning buffed, but he has 11 million HP. And he also continues to spam spells like no tomorrow. They really weren't playing when designing him.

Changed my approach and beat him. Equipped the multicast accessory to the magic spam garb (which allows you to use a magic combo ender twice, which is important since it does a ton of stagger) and changed my main offense to Magic Slash. It was also important to have the same offensive spell on two garbs, since that way you can start the combo with one garb and end with the other (using the double finisher).

Magic Slash was essential because it's a physical attack but it also does magic damage, and Aeronite gets a big physical and magic defense penalty after the 4th stagger (and you can use both Deprotect and Deshell to lower his defenses even further). Lastly I also used a Bravery and Enaero potion (the former gives more strenght and the latter gives your attack wind properties, so if you use Imperil to lower his elemental defenses you can do even more damage). With this setup I was doing around 65K damage per slash while the enders did something like 140K, and I also equipped on the Magic Slash garb and accessory that allows me to use physical combo enders twice. Compare this to Attack lv.3 and there is no contest. Even without buffs I was still dealing 45K per slash.

Before this I also tried a garb with Speed Slash (weaker but faster attack, so theoretically more DPS) and it wasn't doing it. From what I've read you either need Magic Slash to make use of both the magic and physical debuffs or something much stronger like Artemis Arrow.
Maybe I could have also got the kill with Attack lv.3 if I used my Overclock (essentially Quicksilver) better, but I doubt it. Still, at least I managed to figure out the basics on how to deal with him alone, even if the finer details escaped me.
Now that I beat him I will do a couple more sidequests and then go for the ending. Apparently there is another secret boss, wonder if it's as tough as Aeronite.

>SBK favors XIII-2
Dante, I mean. SBK is more of a fan of the first.

>fan consensus
They might probably be wrong about it (as usual), but I'll let you judge it for yourself.

>Pokémon stuff
Heard lots of bad things from SBK about this. Not really sure if it's as bad as X's.

>unlocked in the later days
Then I guess it's not possible to do what the speedrun video does on the earliest day you can face Aeronite (besides having maxed stats).

>a superboss flying away
Kek. Though there may be a precedent in the series. Not sure if that Death thing could qualify as a superboss in VI. Or even Ultima Weapon in VII.

>have to force him to sit down multiple times
I'm sure Birdman will be thrilled to know this.

>tricky
I see. Hope it doesn't take too long to learn how to do it consistently.

>debuffs affect status resistances
Oh? Don't recall hearing about this. I think I heard about the SDM factoring in, but can't recall offhand if debuffs do it as well.

NOTE: How's Poison in this game?

>Prefer this to RNG based resistances.
I agree.

>Imperil, Curse, Defaith and Debrave
Not sure about Curse, but pretty sure the rest are all present in XIII-1. The series just seems to have a pretty strong focus on this.

>can stack them
Noted.

>doing actions in real time instead of choosing them from a menu makes them a lot less tactical.
Very true. Who needs to take positioning into consideration?

NOTE: I heard that the same guy who believes this also likes Witcher 3, a game where you can also spam an attack to win. You know, the very same thing he criticizes KH (and lots of Action games, INCLUDING DMC) of doing. He also likes Souls, too.

>fighting the good fight
Haven't posted much recently. Just got back to SBK, but that's about it.

>very hard, but also very fun
Checks out with what I've heard about it. I wonder if Gradius is any good.

>Mushihimesama Futari, Touhou 8 and Crimzon Clover
I've only heard about Touhou. The others? First time hearing about them. Still, glad you're having fun with the genre. Might delve into them sometime, but first I want to try fightan gaems (specifically Tekken, UMvC3, and Melee *I guess the latter can be called one, and if not, at the very least I heard it's an incredibly technical game*).

>1CC
Beat it with 'one credit'?

>skip them if I find them boring
Sounds encouraging.

>stat boosts
Do they make a significant difference?

>day 1 is doubtful
Understandable. Still, whenever you get to it, I'll be there to read your coverage (same for P3).

>unskippable minigames
Oof.

>walkie talkies
Good Lord.

NOTE: I think the 'meme' one is skippable (the one where you must infiltrate ShinRa's building).

>same team
Outside Takahashi (KH2 dev) apparently not working on it ever again since the prototype, I think it's the same team, yes.

>iterative improvements
Which can also come in the form of an expansion even before P3 proper comes out (as with Intergrade). Though I heard they want to go 'all out' with P3, so I wonder if they'll make a Final Mix this time or move straight into P3.

NOTE: I'm particularly interested in how they will handle the 'Weapons' (superbosses from OG VII). Will be especially amusing if they're far beyond their original counterparts, but if even something like Hell House is already a notable improvement (or so I've heard), then all the more reason to think that the Weapons (being given special attention owed to their superboss status) will undoubtedly be improvements.

>Self-Destruct shenanigans
Heard anything about it?

>stuck at Aeronite
I see that the game definitely doesn't play around. If only the rest of the games in the series (the mainline sequels) were also as hard as this (and of a similar quality).

>11 million HP
Sounds like a lot. How much damage can you dish out in a minute or so?

>changed approach and beat him
Excellent.

>Magic Slash
An especially great offense, for the reasons you note.

>65K per slash
>140K
A very significant improvement, yes. Was this with the status ailment exploit? How were your stats? Did you get your hands on Elementa?

>Artemis Arrow
Pretty hard to acquire?

>another superboss
Ereshkigal (or something along the lines), yes. Seemingly roughly on par.

>SBK is more of a fan of the first
Good to know. I saw that XIII has some cool mods on PC, including a Hard mode, so I might get it after all.

>as bad as X
Hopefully XIII-2 doesn’t gate any superbosses behind that crap.
Speaking of, there are rumors of a XIII trilogy remastered collection floating around, which would be welcome since those are the only unported FFs remaining.

>speedrun strat not possible
Don’t think so.

>Birdman will be thrilled
Obviously. Who doesn’t love filling an invisible meter 4 times in order to do damage to a boss?
But in Aeronite’s defense he continues attacking you while he’s sitting down.

>doesn't take too long to learn how to do it consistently
Not any more than other finnicky strats in other action games I’m sure.

>Poison
Pretty great actually. Was testing it before and it seems to deal around 0,4-0,5% of the total enemy health per second. Without buffs to status ailment duration Poison lv.3 lasts for 25 seconds (but this depends on enemy resistances, on some it lasts for only 5 seconds, on other 20). It works on lots of enemies and bosses (as most other status ailments) and, the best part is, its damage gets buffed by extra status ailment damage. So if you equip the Skeleton Earrings (+100% status ailment damage) it will deal double damage. It’s a shame that it’s the only fixed damage source in the game, but I can’t complain too much when it’s this good. Wished I used it more during my playthrough, only started using it recently.

>Curse
Saw that it’s also in XIII-1 and works similarly. Still, good debuffs spells but a bit too basic. Where’s my Sleep and Berserk?

>Witcher 3
Have to replay that too at some point even if just to see if there’s some merit to the combat, but I remember that spamming light attack was the best choice. Even the magic was pretty basic.

>likes Souls too
A fan of R1 to win I see.

>First time hearing about them
Mushihimesama Futari is a game from CAVE, which is the company that made the best bullet hells (and specialized in that for a very long time), so much so that lots of bullet hells that came after were directly inspired by them, like Crimzon Clover.

>want to try fightan gaems
They seem very fun, but unfortunately some of the cooler ones (like UMvC3 and Melee) have a smaller, but very skilled, player base. The entry barrier is pretty high, but if you’re motivated then you’ll have no problems, so good luck.

>one credit
Precisely.

>significant difference
Individually not that much, but after a while they add up. The biggest boosts you get are the Main Quests ones. I’d like to try a challenge run in the future where I skip all the side quests and fight only the powered up form of certain bosses (3/4 of the bosses in the main quests get replaced with a harder fight past a certain point).

>Shinra building infiltration is skippable
The knockoff Tomb Rider shit? I don’t think it is unfortunately, but I could be wrong.

>wonder if they'll make a Final Mix this time
I think we can expect something similar to Intergrade (which would be very welcome).

>Weapons will be better
Will surely beat Limit and KotR spam. But yeah, I still have to fight the VII:R superbosses to see how they handled those.

>Heard anything about it?
Didn’t see anything for Rebirth still. Safe to say that if they port over everything it’ll still work.

>also as hard as this
Mind that while Aeronite and Ereshkigal are pretty hard they are the exception. You can pretty much cheese through lots of encounters with Overclock spam and can equip up to 10 Phoenix Down. If you remove the use of EP (so no more Overclock and Curaga) and Items (or even Items alone really) you’ll find a decent challenge.
Probably still beats FFVII and the likes even unrestricted in terms of difficulty (owed to not only requiring strategies but also execution that the turn based games lack).

>how much damage per minute
Once everything is in place (En-element Potion, Bravery, Deprotect, Deshell, Imperil while using Magic Slash AND using Overclock) you can kill him in about 90-120 s.

>with the status ailment exploit
Nope. Don’t even know if it works with melee attacks, but it probably does.

>stats
Finished almost every side quest by that point, so pretty high but not maxed.

>Elementa
Yes and it’s pretty sweet. Have to properly test the damage but it seems that with Imperil it becomes a formidable offense. Note that one of the DLC garbs (the Yuna one) comes with a maxed out Elementa which you can use since the first day (because on PC you have all the DLC garbs unlocked). That would probably trivialize a lot of the early (and even late) game.

>hard to acquire
You need to complete a quest which requires you to kill a single high tier enemy, so not that hard (especially for how powerful it is)


So, I beat the game. Have to say that it’s pretty great overall, good variety of offenses with good balancing, Sit Down Meter wasn’t too much of a problem owed to the various ways you can stagger, enemy design is also good and there is decent variety. I would have liked more bosses (there are only 7 of them) and some more fights against larger groups of monsters, and it’s easy to cheese the fights with Phoenix Downs and Overclock, but overall I can’t complain too much.

Ereshkigal was a pain in the ass, probably even harder than Aeronite (the fight was way messier, died a ton), so I have to study him a bit more. Poison saved the day for sure. I also couldn’t get his drop because time ran out and I only got the loot from the results screen.
Final boss was a bit of a letdown. Expected more but I was still a decent way to end the game. Now onto Hard Mode.

>XIII has good mods
One of them being No Crystarium. Apparently there is no way to avoid advancing through the Crystarium in the main story, hence the mod. Works shockingly well under this restriction. Speaks volumes of the fundamentals.

>Hard mode
I wonder if it's a different mod. And if so, if the changes are tasteful. FF surely would've benefited from adding a Hard mode sometime (the turn based ones, I mean), like SMT3.

>might get it
At this point, you will have played most of the good FF titles. After XIII, and depending on how the sequel turns out, the only ones remaining would be XII TZA and V.

>XIII-2 gating superbosses behind Pokemon crap
Haven't heard anything related to this.

>XIII remastered
Sounds awesome. Would give SBK a reason to finally get into LR (as he has a lot of respect for it, mostly for expanding certain aspects from KH2).

This said, I fear that they may 'fix' the status ailment glitch.

>in Aeronite’s defense he continues attacking you while he’s sitting down.
That's something. Does that apply for all the times you made him sit down?

>Not any more than other finnicky strats in other action games I’m sure.
True.

>around 0,4-0,5% of the total enemy health per second
Isn't that... like twice or almost thrice as strong as Remake's Poison? If so, that definitely sounds neat.

>25 seconds
>varies on enemies/bosses
Duly noted.

>can actually buff it
Delicious. Not sure if it was stronger in XIII-1 (and if so, at base, or when you max out the thing in LR). If so, then that would mean, as far as the non-turn based games are concerned, that Poison was probably at its best in LR.

>only fixed damage source
SBK once noted that this sounds very much like A Team post KH1, and he's right. Since one of its devs worked on it, not too surprising. Same for instant death not existing. All of this being said, it would probably have been nice to have more of these, either way. It's not like Death wasn't a thing in a Stagger based game (XIII-1).

>wished you used it more
Could start doing so on Hard.

>it's also in XIII-1
I see. Glad to know.

>where's Berserk and Sleep?
Is the former a thing in VII:R? Hopefully it doesn't get the same treatment as it did in X (Berserk was a thing for enemies to use against us, but we couldn't use it AT ALL on them... or even ourselves).

>Witcher 3
Haven't heard many good things about it (other than from casuals, but if you count that, it's pretty much the best game ever to many).

>R1 to win
Also seen that certain spells can absolutely wreck several stuff, even at the minimum stats needed to use said spells. But you know, hardest game ever made and all that.

>CAVE
Can't say I'm familiar.

>made the best bullet hells
>specialized in that for a long time
That's worthy of respect.

>entry barrier is very high
So I've heard. I know somebody who's into Melee and agreed to teach me the ropes someday, so there's that.

>add up after a while
Makes sense.

>try a challenge run for the sake of SCIENCE
By all means. Very curious about the results.

>knockoff Tomb Raider shit
Not sure. I meant the segment where you must climb 60 floors on foot. You apparently can skip this if you choose the other entrance.

>expect something similar
Fingers crossed.

>still have to fight the superbosses
You mean there's more, other than Bahamut and Weiss?

>Overclock spam
Yes, seemed like it had a lot of potential to be very OP from what I tried. Is it possible to abuse it as much as you can without locking yourself from facing the final boss?

>Phoenix Downs
Oh? Wonder why I haven't heard much about this. Are they as broken as XV's?

>still beats VII and others
Safe bet.

>can kill him in about 2 minutes
That sounds a lot faster than what I imagined. Great. Though this is on Normal (and also excluding the buff he can get). Still, even with those, beating him in about 7-8 minutes doesn't seem bad at all for a superboss. Are you accounting for an initial 25% damage reduction?

>if it works with melee attacks
The guy who did the speedrun also has showcased the glitch being used with physicals. He notes that it's harder to use them like this, compared to spells. Especially if you use physicals at close range.

>almost every side quest
Sounds okay. Heard you need multiple playthroughs to max stats anyway.

>pretty sweet
Music to my ears.

>becomes a formidable offense with Imperil
Makes sense, given what Imperil does, and how Elementa works.

>DLC garbs
I actually used the Yuna one. Was surprised that I got those at all, but if you say the PC version has them by default, then that explains things. Still, would've been better to test it in better conditions (Imperil being one of them, as well as using it on tougher stuff).

>trivialize the early game
It did so for the very small section I played, and for the enemies you can refight in the Ark (or whatever it was called).

>needs you to earn it via combat
Excellent.

>harder than Aeronite
Oh?

>Poison saved the day
You have no idea how happy it makes me to read this.

>final boss was a letdown
Too easy, or too simplistic?

>XIII works well with an unintended mod that nerfs your party
Sounds very good. I’ll snatch the game as soon as it’s on sale.

>different mod
The one I saw basically nerfed your party a bit and made the enemies stronger. There were a lot of parameters and you could choose between some of them.

>FF would have been better with Hard mode
Every combat focused game should have at least an Hard mode (and Very Hard, but that’s too much to ask I’m afraid).

>'fix' the status ailment glitch
Could be. Dunno if other Squeenix rereleases fixed other bugs like this one.

>Does that apply for all the times you made him sit down
The first three times he doesn’t even feel it, he just gets briefly interrupted. Same for the other superboss and a couple of other enemies (like the Skeleton).

>twice as strong as VII:R poison
Yep. VII:R poison technically does more damage since it lasts for 3 minutes, but it’s better to have a more powerful but shorter lasting poison, since battles rarely last for that long anyway (plus you can’t buff its damage in VII:R).

>if it was stronger in XIII-1
I’ll have to test it when I get my hands on the game. Another thing I need to see il LR is that if poison does more damage if you inflict Deshell first. Don’t think so but I want to see.

>Could start doing so on Hard
I will abuse it every chance I get.

>Is the former a thing in VII:R
It’s a spell that you can cast on both your party and enemies. It makes you deal 30% more damage but also take 30% more damage (also for enemies). Wonderful little spell. You can also briefly activate it on Cloud without the need to use magic (you need to be in Punisher Mode and hold your basic attack button; he’ll do a combo and will activate Berserk on the last hit).

>certain spells can absolutely wreck several stuff
I remember Quen being pretty busted. It’s basically a shield that protects you for a single attack, but you can cast it super often.  

>somebody who's into Melee and agreed to teach me the ropes someday
That’s the best way to learn tbh. Will definitely speed things up for sure. I’m trying to get into CVS2 on Fightcade, but I need a better controller. The XONE controller sucks for motion inputs (D-Pad is too clicky) and the only other controller I have is the Retrobit Genesis controller, but that D-Pad is also unreliable. I’ll either try to modify that one or get a PS4 controller. Arcade sticks would be nice but they cost too much.

>the segment where you must climb 60 floors on foot
I took the elevator when I played and didn’t regret it. The segment I was referring to is the one before that, where you have to do some very basic horizontal climbing and platforming, which is as fun as it sounds.
Also I learned recently that in the OG if you take the stairs Tifa calls Barret a retard. It was a better time.

>other than Bahamut and Weiss
It’s the Pride and Joy Prototype. Also exclusive to Hard mode and only fought in the combat sim.

>abuse it as much as you can without locking yourself from the final boss
There is a review on YT from a guy that had a faulty controller which made him use Overclock everytime he switched Garbs, and he managed to do most of the quests, so it’s definitely possible. Don’t know if you can do that and get access to the Ultimate dungeon tho (the one where you face every undefeated Last One and the other superboss), since for that you need to complete almost every sidequest, and some of them are pretty time consuming.

>they as broken as XV's
Don’t know how they work there, but in LR you can take up to 10 PDs and they will revive you everytime you die with a good chunk of health and will apply Shell and Protect. There is also more powerful version that revives you with full health but you only get it near the end of the game. Lastly, if you have even a sliver of EP left you can revive, and it takes 3 points to fully heal (out of 8 that you get and the endgame, for comparison Overclock costs 2). Imo this should have been the only method of revival.

>in about 7-8 minutes
With my setup I beat in in 5 and a half minutes, pretty doable all things considered.

>glitch being used with physicals
Fantastic.

>it's harder to use them like this
Won’t stop me from trying.

>max stats
Note that max stats are completely overkill since enemies don’t get stronger with multiple playthroughs, and that you have the options to leave the stat cap lower (but still enough to destroy everything).

>the Yuna one
That’s the most broken one. That Elementa does absurd damage. Another good, but not quite as broken, one is the Cloud Garb, but that depends on the power of your Heavy Slash, so it’s still somewhat balanced.

>Oh?
For me at least. If I had used poison earlier I might have had an easier time.

>how happy
Knew you would have appreciated. Poison against him does like 80K damage per use (more if you buff status ailment damage further), while spells (while he’s not staggered) deal like 3K per use. You can do a lot more damage while he’s sitting down, so the strat becomes using Poison and spells (for filling the SDM) while he’s not staggered and then going with Magic Slash (or your other offense of choice) when he is.

>Too easy, or too simplistic
Too easy, especially after I fought the two superbosses. He has 4 phases, and the last one is literally a Sit Down Check, meaning that if you stagger him you’ve basically won (since he won’t retaliate and it lasts for two minutes). Still decent overall, maybe his NG+ incarnation will be better.

>will get it
Excellent. As ever, I'll be there to read your notes on it.

>nerfs to the party
>buffs to the enemies
I see. Wonder if it's just stats, or moves.

>every combat focused game should have harder settings
Fair point. Though they must also be well designed, otherwise you end up with stuff like Digimon World 4, where it's clearly made with NG+ in mind (but the fundamentals are laughably weak compared to DMC's, so it doesn't work like that one).

>if other SE releases have done this
Several. I think all of the SNES FF's lost their item duplication glitches. KH2 HD nerfed Blizzard (the already worst spell in the game), FFV's made a lot of dumb changes in the mobile releases (and no doubt the demaster has them, too). I think KH1 HD and XII TZA are the only exceptions. Some things were in need of fixing (like VI's Evade stat straight up not working), but others were pretty much changes to make things less fun, or in the case of the duplication glitches, to cut out the grind.

>doesn't even feel it
So he remains as aggressive as usual, then?

>VII:R does more damage long term
>LR is stronger short term
>plus you can buff it
I can agree with you, I prefer how LR handles it.

>Deshell affecting Poison
As you say, I wouldn't really expect this to be the case, but go ahead. V's Poison gets 'stronger' in a sense if you meet a certain condition that, logically speaking, barely has any correlation. So there may be something similar in the Stagger based games.

>will abuse it
That's the spirit.

>Berserk exists
And it seems to retain its double edged sword trait (must consider whether the benefit is greater than the risk). Nice.

>Cloud's own Berserk
Reminds me a bit of how one activates RotT when trying to land Spirit, but with several other (obvious) differences.

>Quen
I remember SBK and Hotel talking about it, so you must be right on that one.

>protects you from a single attack
>can use it super often
Does it protect you from any attack?

>best way to learn
Indeed.

>CVS2
Noticed a lot of talk in this site, but quite frankly I've never heard of it. Had to look what it stood for. Surprised that there is more than one "Capcom vs [X]" series around.

>controller issues
Oof. How much is a PS4 controller?

>Arcade sticks are expensive
Not surprising.

>took the elevator
Would be surprised if you hadn't.

>the one before that
Haven't seen that segment in the Remake, but I know which one you speak of (it's in the original, too). It had timed jump sequences from what I recall, and the punishment was backtracking.

>where you have to do some very basic horizontal climbing and platforming, which is as fun as it sounds.
The former doesn't sound familiar, but I imagine how basic it must be in the Remake.

>Tifa calls Barret a retard
Yes, she does. Different times, indeed.

>Pride and Joy prototype
As with Weiss months ago, I didn't know they were there at all, let alone them being considered superbosses.

>definitely possible
Good to keep in mind.

>Ultimate dungeon
Also didn't know there was this. More seemingly interesting content. Curious to know more about it.

>complete almost every sidequest
>some of them are time consuming
Oof.

>how they work in XV
Apparently you can carry dozens, and you can use it when your HP reaches 0 (you won't die immediately, but you have a short time to use it). Wiki says it restores your HP back to full.

>will apply Shell and Protect
It seems they can give XV's a run for their money. Odd. Thought XV was the one that started this.

>EP should have been the only method of revival
Very much so. Think this is the first time I've read any of this. Seemed like LR had less of these broken antics when I heard everyone stating that this was one of, if not the hardest FF to date (though it might as well be true).

>5 and a half minutes
Much better than what I had expected. Amazing.

>won't stop you
Based.

Note: Apparently all of the XIII trilogy has some form of buffering exploit. Outside looking forward to this in XIII-1, one can only wonder if this means that SE will leave that as is in that rumored XIII collection.

>completely overkill
So it's mostly like KH2's, a bonus for those who find fun in grinding and have their efforts paid out in the form of a power fantasy. Even more baffling that JRPG 'fans' hate this game.

>the most broken one
Had a feeling it would be this way, but didn't know it would be tops.

>Cloud garb
Surprised it isn't the other way around, considering the popularity of each character the costumes are supposed to represent.

>80K damage per use
Is that total damage, or damage per tic?

>3K damage per use
How nice of the devs to provide us a great way to deal good damage outside Stagger. And to a superboss, no less.

>too easy
Guess it makes sense, since the superbosses are supposed to be stronger than the final boss.

>won't retaliate after sitting down
>lasts for 2 minutes
Stark contrast to Aeronite. No wonder you found it to be a disappointment. Wonder if things would have been a bit differently if you had left them for later.

Note: You missed out on some classic Zesty fun. Remember the Apollo PAIN+ vs Skorp? Now Hermes was the roadblock. Yes. Hermes. Not sure if the conditions of this run make things a bit harder, but it surely can't be that bad.

>I'll be there to read your notes on it
Got both XIII and -2 on sale today. Don’t know when I’ll be able to play them, but soon .

>just stats, or moves
Stats only iirc, but could be wrong. Either way that should be enough for most cases.

>well designed
As long as they are optional I don’t really mind even if they aren’t well designed. Sometimes they can be more interesting that way, even though you might end up with Chipping Session: The Mode, and even in that case you can always play the second hardest difficulty level (like Halo, which is supposedly designed with Heroic difficulty * Hard * in mind instead of Legendary * Very Hard*)

>SE “fixing” the fun stuff
Should have expected it. If they port LR hopefully they won’t touch the status ailment glitch.

>remains as aggressive as usual
They basically act as phase changes, so he’ll switch up the moveset a bit (using higher tier spells the more you stagger him), but the frequency at which he uses the spells remains the same.

>double edged sword trait
Yeah it’s pretty good. One of my favorite statuses from Remake along with Sleep.

>how one activates RotT when trying to land Spirit
Oh how much have I abused this in my NUR.

>from any attack
From my memory it does, which makes it pretty ridiculous. Don’t know how CDPR didn’t see it as a balance problem, but I guess combat wasn’t their main focus.

>never heard of it
I knew of it just because it was directed by Itsuno. I’ve been playing it and it’s great, very unique FG.

>more than one "Capcom vs [X]" series around
There is Marvel, SNK and Tatsunoko. I also bought UMvC3, played it a bit but it’s too complex. Too many things to keep track of and systems to learn. CvS2 is still a big game but it’s much simpler in comparison. I’ll stick with that for now.

>How much is a PS4 controller
Around 50 bucks. Not too much, but I’d rather get a used arcade stick at that point, and that’s what I did. Manage to find one compatible with PC, of a good brand and that didn’t cost a fortune. It arrived today. Will get some getting used to for sure but it's very fun to use. Shmups will also benefit immensly.

>it's in the original, too
Glad to know they kept the best parts of the OG. Can’t wait for the Gold Saucer in Rebirth.

>Curious to know more about it
It’s called Ultimate Dungeon but it’s basically a gauntlet. There are various floors where you fight every Last One that you haven’t killed yet and it ends with the superboss. It’s only accessible for one day and it’s the only time in the game where time doesn’t stop when you enter combat. I made a mini challenge for myself, where I couldn’t revive if I died (thus wasting one hour) and couldn’t save the game up until before the boss. Made the dungeon much more interesting.

>Oof
Unfortunately. Thank God for the guides.

>XV Phoenix Down
Just how RPGbabbies like them then.

>the hardest FF
Don’t have much experience with the rest of the series, but the game isn’t hard at all. There is a lot of potential challenge however with self-imposed restrictions, maybe more than the other FFs since this one also requires some tight execution.

>Amazing
You can also bring the time down even more if you get there more optimized.

>all of the XIII trilogy has some form of buffering exploit
Really? Will see when I play them. Hopefully SE will be smart and not remove it in an eventual port (but they probably will given their track record).

>a bonus for those who find fun in grinding
Yeah but the grind is REALLY long if you want to max everything. We’re talking about multiple playthroughs where you need to complete the majority of sidequests. Doubt many went for it outside of superfans.

>Surprised it isn't the other way around
They probably didn’t put much thought in designing them.

>total damage
Yes. Poison in this game doesn’t really have ticks, health goes down every frame.

>Wonder if things would have been different
Most likely, also because I wouldn’t have figured out the Garb selection which allowed me to basically nullify most magic.  

>Hermes was the roadblock
The man always finds new ways of jobbing. I’m impressed.

Anyway, started Hard Mode. Game is easier so far, since enemies don't scale too much in the fist few days. Interestingly you unlock weapon and shield upgrades on Hard, but they aren't too exciting. Just damage and defense buffs. You can also buff their passive abilities, but can't infuse new ones unfortunately.

>got both on sale
Even XIII-2? Neat. I'd finally be able to see a trusted person saying whether the original is really the better game of the two.

>soon
Works for me.

>doesn't matter if they're optional
Good point.

>If they port LR hopefully they won’t touch the status ailment glitch.
Indeed. One can only hope.

NOTE: Given that SE hasn't been doing well financially, I wonder if they'd be willing to risk porting the games at all, and I suppose they're well aware of the mainstream reputation. Not to mention that they said they'd focus more on big, new projects (so remasters and lower budget games like Octopath and the likes probably will not get developed).

>frequency of the attacks stay the same
I see. So it's more accurate to say that its attacks just get stronger.

>favorite status
I heard this is very, very abused in XII.

>how much you abused it
Glad they didn't tie Rage to upgrades in this entry. I'm planning to do a 'true' GKNUR+ where my meter extensions are not maxed, and RotT stays at Lv 1 even post-Kraken.

>it does
>and you can abuse it
Good Lord.

>directed by Itsuno
On a side note, it's certainly baffling how DMC lacks certain elements from FGs, despite Itsuno having worked on these previously. Unless he intentionally didn't want to add any for some reason.

>Marvel, SNK and Tatsunoko
Hadn't heard about the last two.

>too complex
I've heard. Maybe starting with this wouldn't be the best idea.

>CvS2 is simpler
I could start with this.

>50 bucks
I got one from a store (many years ago) for 40$. Thought they'd get cheaper with time.

>managed to get an arcade stick
>good brand
>will also be used for shmups
Awesome. Do enjoy it. Hopefully it lasts for a while, despite being used.

>can't wait for the Gold Saucer
I for one can't wait to breed multiple colored, oversized chickens.

>a gauntlet
Definitely have not heard about this. Interesting.

>fight every Last One you haven't killed
Throughout the main game? And if you've killed them all?

>mini challenge
Sounds like something the game should have enforced. IIRC XV's postgame dungeon bans the use of items.

>Just how RPGbabbies like them
But it's not turn based, so it doesn't get a pass. Let us ignore the fact that you get some form of this at the endgame in OG VII.

NOTE: It is telling that VI, the first entry to introduce auto-life, is one of the more well-liked games among the fanbase. But V doesn't have it, so it gets forgotten.

Jokes aside, it's mostly because V didn't came out in the West until years later.

>the rest of the series
A low level run of IV is pretty easy, and that's one of the 'harder' titles (speaking for the turn based and ATB titles). III is arguably the hardest pre-XII game, but only because the last dungeon is super long, and there are no checkpoints from the moment you enter it. Still, nothing that a high enough level can't solve.

Then there's XII's Weak Mode. Can't speak for how hard it is, but I think if you have the necessary equipment, knowledge, gambits, setups, etc., then you shouldn't be able to lose at all. SBK notes the last stage of Trial Mode on Weak Mode is super tough without a plan.

So depending on how much execution LR demands from you, it may very well be one of the hardest titles. Not sure if VII:R compares on Hard. Rebirth, we'll see. CHAOS? Will need to have someone who played all of them to chime in.

>bring the time down even more
So it's not a problem at all. I also recently ran into another comment that said it was.

>Really?
I've heard it's not exactly 1:1 in terms of functionality, but yes, I've heard lots of reports stating that they all have this.

>SE fixing this
Would say it's 70/30 (odds are against us).

>multiple playthroughs
Then that sounds like a problem for casuals. Wonder if the game would have been better received among casuals if they could max out in one playthrough by doing some annoying (read: engaging for them) minigame sequences.

>health goes down every frame
And it lasts for seconds? That sounds crazy.

>nullify most magic passively
That sounds extreme for Action.

>new ways of jobbing
Like against Zeus. When GMG was present.

>easier
Knowledge far outstripping the adjustments?

>not too exciting
Oof.

>buff their passive abilities
Like Poison damage, perhaps?

>SE hasn't been doing well financially
Apparently they said that they’ll only focus on small and big scale games, forgoing mid-sized ones, which is ridiculous considering that some of their biggest flops were AAA games (like Flopspoken), but this also means that cheap and quick projects like ports are still on the table.

>very abused in XII
Does it work the same as VII:R?

>Rage untied to upgrades
Pretty great, also the fact that it gets upgraded regardless after the Kraken.

>'true' GKNUR+
With mods I presume. Sounds interesting.

>DMC lacks certain elements from FGs
There is some stuff in there, like Royal Guard (which is basically Just Defend from CvS2 down to the timing), Custom Combos, Specials, Throws etc. but it’s clear that he wanted enemies to be sandbags.

>the last two
Tatsunoko vs Capcom seems similar to Marvel vs Capcom gameplay wise. Seems interesting but I think the game is pretty dead (since it was on the Wii and I don’t know if there even are dedicated servers on Dolphin).

>I could start with this
Absolutely. It has lots of mechanics but they are separated into their own Grooves (think Styles in DMC3), so it’s not too overwhelming.

>Thought they'd get cheaper
I LOVE this economy, don’t you?

>lasts for a while
The great thing about sticks is that you can simply swap parts if they get damaged, including the main board. They are virtually immortal (unless you badly damage the plastic case, but it’s very sturdy, so it will remain intact unless you actively want to damage it).

>can't wait to breed the chocobos
That’s the spirit.

>if you've killed them all
You’ll only encounter the boss at the end. Also, you don’t have to fight every Last One, since you can jump either one, two or three floors.

>something the game should have enforced
I agree. It’s way too easy this way.

>XV's postgame dungeon bans the use of items
Didn’t expect this from XV, especially with how easy the game seems otherwise.

>V didn't came out in the West until years later
I feel like the FF discourse would have been a lot better if every game got ported immediately. Would
have saved us from all the FFVI story analysis video essays.

>IV and III are pretty easy
Figured. Did you also play II? Heard it was one of the hardest (and strangest) in the series.

>XII's Weak Mode
At least the game offers a proper Hard Mode.

>you shouldn't be able to lose at all
I feel like this is fine for how the game works (Gambits) as long as the solutions aren’t immediately obvious, like KotR in VII.

>VII:R on Hard
Still have to beat it, but I think it’s harder than LR simply for the fact that items aren’t allowed and you only regenerate MP between chapters (outside the very little passive regen you get in combat and the occasional Mako shard you get by breaking crates).

>odds are against us
If they even port the damn games in the first place, so they're even worse.

>would have been better received
Doubt it would have made any difference. The game was doomed from the start. Second sequel to a game nobody liked, full action and with a solo protag (that people hated).

>sounds crazy
Functionally it’s the same as ticks, it just makes it harder to gauge how much damage you’re dealing.

>When GMG was present
Of course. The boy fears the mere presence of the Master.

>Knowledge far outstripping the adjustments
Enemies so far just don’t scale well against endgame Lightning. We’ll see if they get stronger later.

>Like Poison damage
You can increase the passive status ailment damage, so yes.

>focus on small and big scale
That so? I only heard about the big scale part. Must have missed it.

>ridiculous
If SE was competent, we'd still be getting games from KH's A Team. One of them is probably working on Rebirth, but I really wanted to see Versus XIII finalized.

>ports are still on the table
Glad to know.

>Does it work the same as VII:R?
I don't think so. It boosts Attack power, and I think your speed as well (but not sure if it's the ATB speed or the character's movement, or both). You also lose control of the character.

>progression upgrade
Definitely helps us a great deal against the more 'tanky' stuff later on (though there's always collisions and petrification, you just have plenty of options at your disposal).

>with mods
Yeah.

>interesting
A nice thought experiment, until you face stuff like Theseus (estimated to be a 40 minute fight at minimum).

>RG
Yeah, this reminds me a bit of another mechanic found in one DBZ fighter game (just the timing aspect, but it only works against physicals, and 'Release' isn't really a thing).

>basically Just Defend from CvS2
I see. So Itsuno definitely brought some of these mechanics into DMC3. Just wonder why he didn't do so with other aspects like hitstun/damage decay, to give 'combos' more meaning. Then again, if his intention was to allow 'stylish' people to use a myriad of offenses on a single airborne enemy, then nevermind.

>pretty dead
Also telling that I haven't heard anything about it, so that doesn't help. That's in contrast to UMvC3, which I regularly hear a lot of things about.

>Styles
So he brought more than one element from CvS2 into the game. And from the looks of it, it looks like he did a damn fine job. Props to him.

>I LOVE this economy, don’t you?
Of course. The future (if not the present) also looks pretty bright if you ask me. We will no longer own physical games, so we're going to go all digital. Who wouldn't love the implications of that? Such as when your console gets damaged.

>virtually immortal
Guess that explains the price. Though that still sounds pretty good.

>only encounter the boss at the end
Noted.

>jump one or more floors
Kind of reminds me of what I heard about Bloody Palace.

>if every game got ported immediately
Ideally before VII came out. For casuals, it would have been extremely hard to even tolerate V with its outdated 2D sprites and the lack of Tifa.

>ever played II
Nope. Tried to, but couldn't get into it. SBK noted it apparently has a lot of focus on statuses for a NES game.

>strangest
That much is true. Especially the way character progression works.

>a proper Hard Mode
Implemented when Ito got on-board.

>this is fine
Yeah, I think so as well. I've discussed with other people about 'difficulty' in turn based games (or stuff like XII). Once you know the solution, you typically either win all the time, or there is some luck factor in play. But it almost never has to do with execution, except for stuff like the Mario RPGs, but even then I still much prefer V over these.

>aren't immediately obvious
There's apparently a pretty overpowered combination of statuses that makes most things a cakewalk, but I recall that they still were more nuanced than KotR.

>harder than LR owed to more restrictions
Makes sense.

>game was doomed from the start
Yeah, good point.

>Enemies so far just don’t scale well against endgame Lightning.
Oh, so it's like harder difficulties in DMC that are designed around NG+?

>You can increase the passive status ailment damage, so yes.
Excellent.

Excuse me for the prolonged absence, have been pretty busy the last few weeks. Anyways:

>Versus XIII finalized
Seemed very cool from the trailers (very KH like). A real shame.

>XII Berserk
Losing control of the character sounds interesting if a bit random. Do gambits still work with it?

>helps us a great deal against the more 'tanky' stuff later on
How convenient we get it for the Loom Chamber.

>40 minutes Theseus fight
Jesus. I really feel like they shouldn’t have messed around with magic orbs on the higher difficulties. Sure, they nerfed chests but getting them from SoD kills and executions has become completely useless on VH.

>'Release' isn't really a thing
Seems to be a uniquely DMC thing. Even other action games don’t mess around with this aspect.

>allow 'stylish' people to use a myriad of offenses on a single airborne enemy
Pretty much. Didn’t want to mess with the power fantasy too much (which is a shame). Fun fact, in CvS2 one of the most broken mechanics is Custom Combos, which basically allows you to cancel every normal and special into each other. You might think that this allows for a great degree of freedom, but in reality it just means that you spam the strongest attack until the meter depletes. Here’s the most infamous example of it:


>he did a damn fine job
DMC3 has some problems for sure, but Style balance isn’t one of them.

>we're going to go all digital
This has been my situation for the last 10 years as a PC only gamer basically. It’s not that bad honestly (also because of piracy), but there are definitely advantages to physical media, outside of just the aesthetic.

>Bloody Palace.
DMC3’s BP kinda works like this, where you get to decide how many floors to jump. If you jump one floor you get some health back, if you jump 10 you get some DT back, and if you jump 100 you get nothing. Makes for some interesting decisions, a shame the later games dropped it, but there are advantages to having fixed waves.

>the lack of Tifa
3D waifus have been a disaster for JRPGs.

>lot of focus on statuses
Interesting. It could be worth playing, even just to see if it’s as bad as people make it out to be (it probably isn’t).

>Ito
Truly the Final Fantasy MVP.

>either win all the time or there is luck involved
I like to think about turn based RPGs as “pure” puzzles games with tons of solutions (typically). What makes them good is the variety and nuance of the solutions in question. If you can kill everything with Firaga then what’s the point?

>they still were more nuanced than KotR
Combining statuses seems a lot more interesting than spam best attack over and over.

>designed around NG+
Precisely.

Now that have some free time I’ll continue with LR Hard mode and post some notes if I find something interesting.

> Bison smacking
Custom Combos were always interesting. The Vale Custom glitch back in ... I want to say Alpha 2, was super weird too where you could get a guaranteed hit with it (and he saved the tech for the grand finals against Daigo, and still fucking lost). Personally it always resulted in what I hate most in fighting games: long ass combos. But there have been some pretty insane setups with it especially with fireballs. I still vastly prefer it to fucking Drive from SF6 though.

> DMC3 BP
My personal favourite. IIRC there was one guy in China who did a full run at some point, recorded it on VCR and alll. Not sure if it's still online somewhere. Were the waves custom made or random? I don't fully recall.

> release
What aspect are you talking about?

>long ass combos
A-Groove combos fortunately aren't that long but the most infamous ones are still pretty boring imo, but all the different setups you have with them are pretty interesting.

>still better than SF6 Drive
How does that work? From what I've seen it seems and invincible dash that costs meter.

>one guy in China who did a full run
Really? If that's the case that's pretty nuts. I can't imagine how long it would be.

>aspect
The "store energy from successful parries and release it with a unique counterattack that gets stronger the more energy you have".

> Drive
In general it's basically a stamina-bar. You use it to parry, dash, crushingblow and dash-cancel attacks and for ex-moves. If you run out you get burned-out, get extra recovery frames and take chipdamage. The key concept is that dash-cancel moves have massive bonus-frames, so once you get hit you basically get hit by a massive stamina-bar draining combo.

> full BP run
I honestly have no clue, I think it was multiple days. It was in the heyday of "DMC3 FULL BP Part 0001" if you catch my drift.

> release mechanic
It's very rare yeah. Only one that comes to mind currently is maybe Tate from Shinobi? But instead of parries you kill to make yourself stronger. Sort of a damage-storage mechanic. Definitely very unique.

>dash-cancel moves have massive bonus-frames
They get more active frames on their hitbox?

>"DMC3 FULL BP Part 0001"
I see.

>Shinobi
So you do more damage the more meter you've stored? Sounds pretty cool.

Shinobi's tate system basically works like this:

You have a tate-gauge. With each kill, a candle lights up. Every candle is (IIRC) a 10% damage boost. If you drop your combo, the combo resets. If you go too long without doing a kill, your health will start to drain (extremely fast on Super difficulty/ EuHARD).

The setup is that you kill all the enemies in the fight within the timer, and use your final attack to OHKO the big bad. Some fights don't have them, but some do. So fights are more like a puzzle if you get me. Bosses also summon adds, and you are ranked on how little hits you needed to kill the boss with. Every boss can be one-shot though with some it is absolute madness.

There is RNG involved sadly, you can at times be at the mercy of what the enemy is doing. Especially the final boss is insane, you played NGII so you know what I mean if I say that boss makes Dagra Dai look like a fun casual encounter. Easily the worst and hardest boss ever made in an action-game imo.

Example: https://youtu.be/Teb19fv95zg?si=h36EhaYSqWXfD_uc&t=42

> drive rush
In easy terms, if you hit them with a drive-rush version of an attack, it has the frame-data of a counter hit. Note that this stacks, so if you are +4 on counterhit, if you counterhit them with a driverush, you get like +8 or something. And if you punishcounterhit (another mechanic) it becomes like +12 or something absolutely crazy.

Shinobi sounds very efficiency focused hearing about these systems. Go in, kill everything with precision and do it fast. I wonder how much trial and error is involved in figuring out what to do on the higher difficulties.

>makes Dagra Dai look like a fun casual encounter
Ah. Something worth trying at least once then.

>frame data of a counter hit
>it stacks
Pretty busted then. Do these moves also have iframes? It seems like it from what I've seen of SF6.

> iframes
None that I know of, but they are super fast.

> shinobi
It is the pinnacle of efficiency yeah. There are enough moving-elements to the combat though, so every encounter will always be slightly different since enemies can block so you have to open them up. You basically have a few tools (kick to stun/break guard, kunai to stun at range and attack and dodge). There's also Ninpo but it's like NG basically (strong, but avoided) and a charge move (kinda a super slash). Definitely has my highest recommendation, insanely good game.

Malcar: >absence owed to busy life
No worries. That's understandable.

>gambits still working with Berserk
From what I've observed, no. Characters will only perform basic attacks.

>RotT for the Loom Chamber
The game really does give us pretty much everything we need for it in NUR+.

>shouldn't have messed with MP orbs
I concur.

>nerfed chests
They actually give the same units as in GoW1, but the orb adjustment in VH just lowers their worth that much.

>orbs from SoD kills become useless
Just so.

>messing around with this aspect
Parries storying power, or just storage in general?

>Custom Combos
I've heard of that term before, but don't remember in what context (or for which game, but it wasn't CvS2, at least, I don't think so).

>allows you to cancel every normal and special into each other
This smells like....

>allows you to spam the strongest attack until the meter depletes
Yep. Had a feeling it would allow for such antics.

>example
>from full health to death's door
Mother of God....

>piracy
Some people believe that emulators are getting compromised owed to Ninty's recent win against Yuzu (which led to other emu devs pulling theirs out of the Internet). That said, forks can also be a thing.

>3's BP works like this
And only 3's?

>interesting decisions
I can see that, yes. How many floors are there? Must be a lot if you're able to skip 100.

>a disaster
In more ways than one.

>if it's as bad
As you note, you must take what the community's consensus is with a grain of salt. Except maybe for XV.

>truly the MVP
As I mentioned in its dedicated topic, I learned of a fellow who demonstrated that you can solo the whole game with low leveled characters (Lv 3 at max). Just goes to show how little number pumping matters in the presence of the myriad of ways to deal great damage without grinding XP for weeks. Still impressed that a port of a game made in the '90s is still up there among the best JRPGs ever made, even as of today.

>variety and nuance of the solutions in question
Like how no damaging a tough boss in XII, V, and VIII works (ordered in terms of how tasteful they each go about it, though the first two are very close).

>kill everything with Firaga
Or KotR.

>a lot more interesting
Exactly.

>notes in the future
By all means. I'm all ears.

>Shinobi
A pretty great title, yes. I must revisit it one of these days. As I remember, just like Chaos Legion, the game is all about the core gameplay. No distractions (such as silly minigames or even puzzles). Just pure combat and tight platforming.

NOTE: Speaking about distractions, someone recently said that Blitzball and speaking to NPCs in X were NOT a distraction (the latter even on replays, outside their occasional usefulness for a clue on how to progress, which I don't think you ever needed for X anyway). That lot is really something else.

Raeng: >10% increase
That right? I felt it was a bit bigger. I probably did something wrong, but without Tate, I'd deal something very close to chip damage, but with full Tate, that was the whole boss' bar.

>EU Hard
This to say Super was 'Hard' in EU (and by extension, 'Super' didn't exist in EU)?

>link
*chef's kiss*

>final boss
*war flashbacks*

NOTE: Do you think the genre would have been impacted in a major way if Shinobi came out before DMC1? Maybe if one (or both) became successful IPs as a result?

> 10%
Note, per kill. It could easily be more or go on a curve i.e. first is 10%, second kill is 25% etc because you do have a point, you go from chip damage to OHKO sometimes with 4 kills.

> EU HARD
I kinda screwed up the naming. Basically the NTSC release has Normal/Hard/Super while PAL has Easy/Normal/Hard. People, as a result, assumed that Super was removed from the PAL release and Easy was added. In fact it is this:
PAL EASY = -
PAL NORMAL = NTSC NORMAL
- = NTSC HARD
PAL HARD = NTSC SUPER

So the PAL release just lacks hard-mode for some reason. And PAL HARD is the equivalent of NTSC SUPER. Super convoluted haha.

> genre impact
I'm not sure. It was slated to release earlier than DMC1, but I think the 'style' of DMC1 had a much bigger reach than Shinobi. Shinobi is also way, waaaay harder. DMC1 was sorta doable to at least get half-way through if you knew how to hold a controller. Most players got stuck in Shinobi in the first stage and just gave up.

@Roy
>Definitely has my highest recommendation
Sigh. Another one goes into the backlog (which I’m never going to finish at this rate).

@Wright
> Characters will only perform basic attacks
Unfortunate, but understandable to balance it out.

>game built for NUR+
I wonder if the devs ever spoke of such challenge runs. I guess they must have thought of them at some point, considering upgrades aren’t reinforced.

>lowers their worth that much
Isn’t it like 25% from N?

>parries storying power
This one. Parries usually give you generic Super meter (which is filled in a variety of ways anyway), they don’t fill a separate meter and don’t give you the possibility of using Release or something similar as a counter attack.

>heard of that term before
Street Fighter Alpha 3 maybe? They’re also there (A-Groove in CvS2 is inspired by V-Ism in Alpha 3 after all).

>This smells like…
https://youtu.be/3Q41tJjfmCc?t=14

>emulators are getting compromised
I doubt Nintendo is going to go after Dolphin or BSNES, or Sony going after PCSX2. Nintendo did what it did to set a precedent before the release of the Switch 2, so that people couldn’t get a better experience for free on day 1 using emulators. Still, Ryujinx is still there and works very well. Used it to play MHGU and Mario Wonder and never had any problems.

>And only 3's
Yes. The other BPs have a fixed number of floors (101) that cannot be skipped and those always have the same enemies.

>How many floors
10.000, so it’s 100 floors if you always skip 100 of them, but it’ll probably end up at something like 120 floors.

>Except maybe for XV
There are also XV apologists unfortunately (that poor soul on 4Chan comes to mind).

>tactics > mindless grinding if the game’s well done
Absolutely. The best part is that those don’t even require many resources to develop. The sad part is that, despite this, good JRPGs are a rarity.

>VIII
You played it? Always heard divisive opinions on it.

>Chaos Legion
Speaking of, I’ve seen you’re enjoying your time with it. Does it get a recommendation?

>just the core
The arcade spirit shines through.

>Blitzball and NPCs aren’t distractions
Amusing to say the least, but you can’t reason with FF fans.

Should note, it's not a long game. If you don't suck you can clear it in a few hours, first run might take a bit longer but I'd be surprised if it would take you more than a weekend if you catch me.

If you want to go for 100% you'll.....be busy for a while haha

Raeng: >10% then 25%
Good point. Perhaps this could be something I could test someday.

>PAL skips H and goes straight to VH
Brutal. This makes me wonder... how beneficial have region specific changes been to games that had them? Could be any game you could think of, like Metroid Prime, Melee, MGS, ZoE2, etc. Or to put it in another way, how often were the changes actually beneficial?

>DMC1 is more accessible
Again, another fair point.

>not a long game
Which one, Shinobi? If so, by 100% you mean clearing all difficulties?

Malcar: >balance it out
I think XII still used the old mentality of "Berserk -> uncontrollable physical attack".

>devs speaking of challenges
Depending on when challenges first started appearing online, there could have been a good chance that they knew. By GoWIII, they must have known.

>25% from N
Yes. A chest gives 400 units (not sure about RotT units yet), and the maximum HP/MP you can have is 200. So a quarter of 400 is 100, which is half of what you have in vanilla/NG+ runs (including runs using costumes *unless said costumes adjust their worth, like GK*).

GK on VH would then reduce a chest's worth to a measly 25 units. Oof.

>Parries just give you generic Super meter
>can be filled via other ways
>not like Release
I see. So in a way, Itsuno took that concept and expanded on it in DMC3.

>SF3
Probably.

>jump cancelling
Indeed. Serious question, is this abused for efficiency, or is it mostly just for 'style'?

>Ninty going after Dolphin
If I'm not mistaken, they already have, but that was many, many years ago. But I get the point. The only way they'd try this again is if Dolphin does something that may give Ninty a way to go after them.

>Sony going after PCSX2
Word is that Sony is actively working with emulator devs currently to bring emulators as a way to play old titles.

>to set a precedent before the release of Switch 2
That makes sense.

>Ryujinx is still up
Completely forgot about this one. I suppose it got way overshadowed by Yuzu.

>played Mario Wonder on it
So it must work pretty well if it can do this.

>fixed number of floors
>always have the same enemies
Sounds way less entertaining.

>10.000 floors
Come to think of it, Dante did talk about this. He brought up something about the floors being intended to be skipped, so no one should be insane enough to do some challenge like tackling them one by one.

Also, do you get something for clearing BP?

>XV-kun
The fact that SBK is likely still living rent-free in his head says a lot about the guy.

>don't require many resources
Indeed. This was also part of the reason why I wanted to do 'No Ability/No Equipment' challenge for the superbosses in V. Was pleasantly surprised with the results, and made me appreciate the game even more.

>good JRPGs are a rarity
Basically what SBK and I have been talking about. Aside from FFV, XII, SMT3, and few others, there aren't as mmany great titles as there are for Action.

>played it
Yes. For reference, the only titles I have not played are II, IX, and XII and beyond (I don't count the MMOs). I did play a bit of the latter two, but never finished.

>divisive opinions
It's worse than VII.

>Does it get a recommendation?
Absolutely. In fact, I'm quite shocked that Birdman didn't take this opportunity to say "YES". Raeng is here saying good things about Shinobi, so why not?

>can't reason with FF fans
Not when they say the most ridiculous things like "the only thing that makes Action games difficult is the timing of the buttons, and even then that's not difficult at all to do".