Final Fantasy 13

Just started.

Interesting system even though it's just the bare basics so far. Potions healing all is weird. I like how certain attacks like Snow's hand grenade and Lightning's Blitz can hit multiple enemies if you place them correctly.

Don't really like stagger systems but we'll see.

Just got paradigms. Weird system.

What I gathered from the tutorial is it wants you to use a Commander/Ravager set, then switch when you need defense or healing. This sounds kind of unfun to me.

I rearranged them to Commander, Sentinel and Medic.
The aim is to have the Sentinel defend and draw enemies while the Commander keeps attacking and the Medic heals as needed
No sign of status magic like poison yet. Once I get that kind of stuff I might have two Sentinels and one caster who I'll be controlling.

But the way stagger works could ruin all that if you can't deal enough damage without exploiting it with Com/Rav. We'll see.

Wow.

I must be missing something because I can't do a thing to stop this boss from killing me instantly.

It's the large robot at the crystalized lake. It drops ice and kills Lightning from full health no matter what paradigm.

Is there a way to stop this attack? I've fought every enemy I've come across and I've been upgrading in that crystal thing.

Edit: Beat it, but feel this might be worse than losing.

I had no choice but to set Relentless Assault in order to do any real damage. Survived the ice attack but not sure why unless this paradigm boosts stats but then one attempt completely failed. Was it because I didn't switch back in to the one with the healer in time? I don't know.

Overall felt really put in a box. I really liked using Sentinel to draw enemies. But if you do this you get no chains. Might work on weaklings but later it's not going to work.

Is the whole game like this boss fight? Just a race to stagger? Forced paradigm shifts?

Tried Lighting Returns. I instantly liked it more than 13.

Still not fan of this stagger crap though. It's nowhere near as bad but still. Makes me wonder if the set ups I'm thinking of will even be viable later. Not a fan of the time limit but seems there's a way to freeze it. Will look into this another time. I've seen enough to just barely want to keep LR, but I really want to play Trials of Mana now. I think 13 just left a bad taste.

Stagger is a key feature in the series going forward iirc, also heavily present in FFVIIR. I played FFXIII for about 30 hours and unless you work towards stagger and plan around it, fights will last a decade. The whole idea is to stagger them ASAP and then unleash the big guns and juggle them for bonus damage.

You can technically outlast most fights if you have a bigger party and have a tank-healer-dps setup, but the real fun is in shifting around to get stagger asap and then nuking bosses.

I do feel it is an insanely complex and interesting system, but not something I specifically enjoyed so I dumped it.

Might be interesting to watch this: https://youtu.be/qauQSJT2jqc

I'm definitely not touching it again.

LR is probably going too.

I'm aware of it being in FF7R but how similar is it? I'll probably like it better since in that you can move freely.

It is more the illlusion of moving freely imo from what I've played, due to how limited movement options are mid combat. Stagger to FF is what I don't know dodging is to Dark Souls (bad analogy), if you don't use it you'll never enjoy it. Better to look elsewhere for enjoyment.

Yeah I'll probably give FF7R a miss too. Everything I've seen and heard sounds so unenjoyable but I've been hoping there was more to it.

Not a fan Bird? Yeah stagger is big in 7R as well, especially for bosses. Positioning and dodging in that aren’t quite as useful as you may think, bigger enemies are a rush to stagger so you can activate their next phase.

It depends how it works.

In FF13, I couldn't play how I wanted at all. I HAD to paradigm shift to beat that boss or I'd be killed.

Don't like how it looks in FF7R either. Really feels like a pointless wall that railroads you into a playstyle that isn't fun to me. It does seem better though, because at least some attacks can be avoided and you still have some freedom to choose how you attack. Might borrow it from my brother at some point.

Keeping LR. I didn't know all the DLC is available including Japanese voices.

Why does she say a line every time you change clothes? So irritating.

Did some more reading on every costume and ability and there's definitely some cool stuff to build with.

Not sure why you can even move during battle. It's so slow enemies can out-walk you.

>had to paradigm shift

Yeah, the game is really about swapping between paradigm shifts more than anything. It’s a weird system but I’ve always enjoyed it.

>keeping LR

It has a lot more action elements from what I remember, it’s a really good title. VIIR is good too but I got my hopes up thinking the KH2 team was behind it(turns out the main battle designer didn’t work on the game past the prototype or something).

Infinity_Divide wrote:(turns out the main battle designer didn’t work on the game past the prototype or something).

Oh? I wasn't aware of this. But some say it's still better than KH3.

Yeah I didn’t know that either but SBK mentioned it, and you can kind of tell.

>better than KH3

I would agree with this. Don’t think we’ll be seeing another ARPG on the level of KH2 ever.

>swapping between paradigm shifts
I do think the system is decent, but not something I can enjoy.

>It has a lot more action elements from what I remember
Yeah. You can move around but only walk and it really doesn't let you avoid enemies.

You can time your blocks to get perfect blocks, and there's a sort of counter where you can interrupt enemy attacks. All your moves are done as you input them like an action game, completely free.

Changing clothes is pretty much style switching. There seems to be a lot of customization on offer here, though reading about the randomness in synthesis, that doesn't sound fun.

After I'm done with Trials of Mana I'll get back to this and put some real effort in. Will depend on how bad the time limit is.

Whose the expert on this game? Is it SBK? I remember one of you lot praising it somewhere.

Most praise went to FFXIIILR iirc. I know SBK at least as knowledge about that one. Regarding this game itself I think either 5does or SBK has knowledge or can at least point you in the right direction.

I got the platinum trophy on this sucker, but it was a long time ago. I couldn’t say I’m an expert, but I do remember some things.

Looks like to get hard mode I have to play through normal first. That sucks. Hard mode has exclusive stuff.

IIRC only Lightning Returns has a Hard Mode.

Yeah LR is all I'm referring to from now on.

It's annoying more because there are some garbs exclusive to hard, locking me out of build options. Oh well. Normal can just serve as a test run to see if I like it enough and can deal with the time limit.

Personally prefer paradigm shifts (or that pacing) in 13  over the combat in 7R. At least I was able to do fast-paced and fluid battles in 13. The speed in 7R is rather...superficial. A lot of time I tried to push the battles in 7R to a higher speed but it felt like the game couldn't keep up with you. The flaws are also more noticeable once you get to Hard difficult. I guess one weakness in 13 is that the system doesn't shine until you have all the paradigm unlocked. In comparison LR definitely is my favourite system. The time limit actually isn't that bad. I think I still had 2 days left before the final battle considered I had done almost every side quests and I had to sleep in an inn to pass that in the end.

I did the first few quests with no problem then ran into this giant bug and got destroyed.

The time limit might not be a problem for main quests or even side quests but what I do in games like this is extensive testing. I can sit somewhere for hours fighting and testing every option. Then there's synthesis.

Anyone played this game? SBK seems fond of it. Along with FFV, XII, and seemingly Tactics, this looks like it has the potential to be a part of the 'good FF' entries (has its own set of strengths, like the other three, which gives it an unique identity) despite what a lot of the fans say about it.

Want to know about the thoughts of people who played it for future reference. LR too, if you feel like covering that game as well.

I played FFXIII, not its sequels. IIRC SBK is mostly a fan of the latest entry (Lightning Returns).

FFXIII is a very, very cool RPG with a ton of fantastic ideas....30 hours in. It really is a game that dripfeeds you mechanics and content and takes a ton of time to open up as a result. It can take between 10-30 hours to reach the 'open world' segment where you can finally controle where you go and build your party freely.

Ironically it was at that point that I gave up, because I was so burned out on the game.

> good FF entries
I still feel X should belong there too. It has a few busted things, but it's probably the most polished modern turn-based RPG and very flexible.

>taking a lot of time to open up
I see. Guess it would be alright if it was part of the opening, like in KH2, but not that much further. However, it is true that what it does offer is pretty interesting.

>X
Heard the main game was good, the postgame not so much.

> X
The post-game is both the best and the worst imo. I really enjoy a lot of the fights mechanically, but there's a lot of specific statistics going on that swing it one way or the other. The main game is imo the most enjoyable and honestly a must-play if you like RPGs. I delayed myself playing it for pretty long and always regretted it.

Still need to play the game to have a more informed opinion of it. Guess playing V first before anything else was a mistake (as SBK noted, too). Also need to see if X-2 is worth trying. I see that it has Mix, but doubt it matches V's versatility.

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm curious to see what X does best. Just don't expect it to match V (would be pleasantly surprised if it does, but again, doubt it), but I'll try to enjoy it nonetheless. If you like it, then chances are that I'll like it, as well.

X-2 is a fun side-game, but I never really liked the ATB system personally so I gave it a pass after a few hours.

> can't match V
I mean, I get that. But we still play other DMC games too despite DMC1 and 3 existing. One game's superiority doesn't exclude others from being enjoyed I'd say.

>ATB system
You mean in general, or does it have a sort of unique system of its own (that's different from prior entries)?

>One game's superiority doesn't exclude others from being enjoyed I'd say.
You're right. That's a fair point. Forgot that I could still enjoy Chrono Trigger for what it was, so the same should apply to X.

> ATB
Mostly in general, the appeal for me in turn-based games is that I can just stare at the screen without a rush and contemplate my next move. It's rare when there's an ATB system I actually enjoy, like Baten Kaitos.

I see. IIRC the NES games are the only true 'turn based' games, besides X. But they're evidently primitive, though I never played them seriously. Would be surprised if there were some things worth exploring.

Have you ever played or heard of Sweet Home? That's another turn based game for the NES, and IIRC Capcom (or people?) say that RE was inspired by it (even though people have drawn more parallels in another IP, whose name I can't recall).

Then there's the Digimon games, but don't recall them being mechanically interesting. At most, I remember that buffs in Data Squad were pretty ridiculous, a standard strong attack would deal about 1/20 damage to the final boss, but you could one shot it if you used buffs (and debuffs). Think some debuffs didn't just lower numbers, but set a specific stat (ATK, DEF, SPD,) to a preset number (depending on the debuff *although this could serve as a buff if your Digimon's stat was below that preset number, so not sure what would you call that*). Think the speedrun consists of defeating the final boss this way.

>Baten Kaitos
Heard of it, but never looked into it. Is it worth delving into?

> classic FF
I know Kayhaam is a big fan of them, so there's probably something of value there.

> Sweet Home
That's the game that served as an kickstart to Resident Evil yeah, but never really went into it.

> Baten Kaitos
I'm very picky haha, but it's one of my absolute favourite games of all time. It has its faults, but it's got some of the most unique combat systems, stories and visual styles I've ever seen. If you like RPGs and have the option to play it, really take your time for it I'd say. It's a big chunky game but fuck me it's so good.

>Khayyam likes the NES games
Really? I should keep a note about this and ask him about it in the future.

>some of the most unique combat systems
Now I'm curious. I do have the option to play GC games, so I'll give it a try. Thanks for mentioning it.

Yeah Baten Kaitos is really unique. If you'll excuse me going on a bender:

It takes a bit to get going, but the simple mechanics are this:

• You attack and defend using cards, which you build in a deck
  Cards have numbers, doing things like 123 or 333 in your attack or defensive attacks give you damage bonusses.
  You have to block attacks with cards in the enemy turn to negate damage.

The beauty is that enemies really hit like a truck, so if you don't use defense-cards at all you'll generally be one-shot. You can use attack-cards for defence sometimes (like a sword-card) but they are far less effective than a shield-card for example.

It gets more interesting with elements, as everything 'stacks'. So say you cast Fire-Water-Water-Wind against an enemy (and let's say they all do 20 damage). The enemy is resistant to Wind, and takes only 50% damage from it.
That means you do 30 damage.
Because: 20+20-20 (since water negates fire) = 20
20+10=30

Consequently, if you're attacked by a move that deals 200 dark-damage, and you block with 200 physical, you literally wasted those cards since all the damage goes through.

It makes for some tough calls.

This is upped by the class-system. At the start you can only play 4(?) cards and only have a hand of 4. Each time you go up a class-level, your hand and playable cards go up by 1, but the timer you have to play your hand decreases in length. At first its infinite, to help beginning players. At max it's 2.5 seconds to make your choices.

The game has a great difficulty curve for this, and later cards will have 4 numbers on it, meaning you have to also  not just choose the card, but also which number you use (you have to select the number using the c-stick).

Example of a random non-spoiler boss:

https://youtu.be/E7Rejym5xEw?t=53

The beauty is that you can't rely on standbys, you have to think on your feet. A healing item is a card, so you gotta save it. And you might have to construct a number-combo on the fly. Note that the damage-values are significant. Doing a full 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 combo gives a 360% damage bonus.

IMPORTANT NOTE: the game is infamous for having one of the best plot-twists in the genre. If you care about that sort of thing, I highly recommend avoiding topics or spoilers about the game if possible. Personally speaking the twist was so impactful that I dropped the game for a few days to process it, and I still think about it to this day. It's really good.

Sounds interesting

>2.5 seconds
Your video shows the player select like 4 cards per turn. Is the timer running for all cards or as you pick them singlely, resetting per card?

>video
Those characters look straight from Legend of Dragoon.

Are status effects good?

> 2.5 seconds
It's a mid-game boss so he's not at a max class yet. He's got 5 cards to play.

> timer running out
It's for making your first 'decision'. After that you have until the animation ends to pick your next card, making some characters harder since they have fast animations.

> status effects
Status Effects only exist for yourself IIRC, you cannot inflict them from what I recall outside of a very few instances/cards.

You've got the typical sleep/paralysis/poison etc. The most interesting one imo are Headache (changes the numbers location on your cards) and Confusion (makes the numbers constantly rotate). The best item in the game that gives the biggest statboost gives your characters permanent Confusion, which makes it pretty brutal haha:

https://youtu.be/vbOzFlGYW50?t=377

It can get pretty brutal if a card hads 4 numbers haha

As Birdman said, the game does sound interesting. A couple of questions of my own, are the cards you get in any way randomized? If so, can this potentially screw you? Doubt they'd make a game where, as you said, enemies hit hard, so if RNG doesn't give you any defense cards, you'd be put into an unwinnable situation, but still want to confirm this with you.

>class system
You sold me with this already.

>plot twist
Will keep this in mind. Thanks for the heads up and the details. I'll add this game to my list.

The cards in your deck are randomized in order. As noted, some cards have a dual-function i.e. blocking with a Sword card. But if you are ill prepared or don't bring enough shield cards or are trying to hold on to cards in your hand too long, you'll get swamped for sure. Deckbuilding as a result is about having a nice balance and thinking on your feet i.e. "do I spend this card now to make room in my hand for defence cards".

You can 'waste' cards in your defence turn too if you wish, i.e. using "Magic: Wind" as defence, which does nothing, but this makes you pull another card, hopefully it being a shield.

>Deckbuilding as a result is about having a nice balance and thinking on your feet i.e. "do I spend this card now to make room in my hand for defence cards".
Makes sense. Reminds me a bit of Mega Man Battle Network, but that isn't really turn based.

Thanks for the suggestion Roy. As I said elsewhere, if I get burnt out from Action and want a little change of pace, I'll play other games, and this seems like a good choice.

>don't bring enough shield cards
Is this like in Magic where you have to consider how much land you need?

Is it possible to get really unlucky and not draw a shield when you need it?

But you also said others like sword can be used. Does that give exactly the same effect?,

The game actually looks cool. But I feel like I'd need to play it to fully grasp what you're talking about.

> Magic Lands
Not really like that. But technically it can happen that if a boss has a 9 hit combo and you just keep on drawing melee-cards, meaning you're going to eat a lot of damage (or possibly get OHKO'd). You tend to play into this however, trying to always keep 1 or 2 defence cards in your hand in case shit happens.

> Sword card as defence
As a comparison, a regular Sword Card will have Physical 7 (meaning it reduces incoming damage by 10) while a Chainmail can have Physical 22. So you can use the Sword for some minor negation, but a shield will always trump it.

Example here:
https://youtu.be/cuiyd2QWGTQ?t=80

This little exchange is quite a good example, as Kalas blocks two of the three hits, but leaves the third hit open so that he gets the 2-straight reduction since he has a 7-8. Otherwise it would've been 7-8-7 for example, which isn't a card-number combo. It sounds complex but it's pretty intuitive.
But he doesn't use a water-resistant defence card, meaning the fire-damage goes straight through.

EDIT: note that everything 'stacks'. If an enemy does a 9-card combo against you that does a total of 100 physical, and you play just a single Shield card that has 100 defence, you still take 0 damage despite eating 8 hits.