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How to properly implement movement speed into combat in action games?

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Birdman


SSS-Rank

Been thinking about this after seeing the recent Sonic Frontiers footage.

What makes it a 'Sonic' game? What is a Sonic game?

He runs fast across this open world, but how is that different mechanically from a vehicle or just regular movement really?

How do you implement speed into combat? Does any game do this?

Sonic has to come to a stop to fight. In Infamous: Second Son it was the same. You can run super fast around the environment, even run up walls, but you had to come to a stop to actually attack.

I get that if Sonic was able to fight while maintaining super speed nothing would be able to touch him.

Transformers Devastation is a good example. You build momentum from driving so you can use the dash attack, into punch flurry, then knockback. From there you can transition back to vehicle mode. It does slow down on impact but the whole sequence keeps flowing.

I know the Sonic Frontier footage isn't the final version, but it looks bad. Like a world full of random, unfinished Death Stranding structures. Auto rails and springs everywhere.

I've often wondering what a Getter Robo game would look like. Like how Getter 2 would actually play. In the anime/manga it moves super fast. Shin Getter Robo was in Another Century's Episode 3, but there was no speed change when switching to Getter 2.



Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin

> what is a Sonic game
I don't think the devs. even know this tbh, though to be fair I've also never really 'gotten' the series. If anything the element I liked most about 2d sonic was how open the levels were with multiple paths and routes. The 'speed' was never the appeal to me.

> speed in combat
Metal Gear Rising allows you to attack while running, which really speeds things along. Same with things like being able to cast while walking in Kingdom Hearts 3 etc.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

Birdman


SSS-Rank

>Metal Gear Rising allows you to attack while running, which really speeds things along. Same with things like being able to cast while walking in Kingdom Hearts 3 etc.

These are mobility options but I wouldn't call them speed mechanically. Not in terms of Sonic or momentum.

HotPocketHPE

HotPocketHPE
C-Rank

Loader in Risk of Rain 2 has a grapple hook that lets you fly around, and a punch that scales in damage with how fast you're going. Leads to a sort of hit-and-run style, pretty fun to mess around with.

Not traditional action per se but FPS games in general do a good job, Tribes is the archetypical example. The game is built around getting momentum from good movement and damage boosts, then grabbing the flag or chasing whoever has it. See Quake, Doom Eternal, Ultrakill, etc.

It would be cool to see more interesting movement in 3rd person melee action, level design and player kits need to accommodate for it though which is probably why we don't see it more.

Birdman


SSS-Rank

>Loader in Risk of Rain 2 has a grapple hook that lets you fly around, and a punch that scales in damage with how fast you're going.
Sounds like what I'm talking about. So you can use the grapple to generate speed and smash into the enemy? Sounds a bit like TFD. Do you stop moving on impact?

>Tribes is the archetypical example. The game is built around getting momentum from good movement and damage boosts
Can you go into more detail?
How do you get momentum exactly? Your character actually speeds up?


HotPocketHPE

HotPocketHPE
C-Rank

>ROR2 loader
IIRC you slow down a bit, but the character also gets temporary extra health for dealing melee damage, so the health from the punch gives you an opportunity to go in with your other moves.

>tribes
The whole map is made up of big hills, you can make your friction very low and gain speed by sliding down slopes and using your jetpack to keep speed while going up them. The lightest classes (who have lower HP) basically try to get going super fast, then zip straight through the flag and back to base (or stop someone who has your flag). If you get hit by projectiles or grenades it will alter your momentum and trajectory, which can make you miss the flag or crash into a wall and lose all your speed, so it's a pretty huge part of combat.

Here's a random video, hopefully watching a couple minutes will help.

Birdman


SSS-Rank

Go to 1.02.

Soon after, they player will go up a slope then go flying into the air. I think they came zooming in a little before that. Reminds my of like a half pipe in those skateboarding or snow boarding games where you build thst momentum coming down then get higher when going up the opposite side. I'm guessing with the help of the jet pack? Is that what happened?

HotPocketHPE

HotPocketHPE
C-Rank

>Half-pipe
Yeah that's basically what's happening, the movement is called skiing for that reason. In the first game it was a glitch but afterwards they kept it as an official mechanic. The jetpack helps you pick up additional speed, you can see when they're using it because the blue meter at the bottom-left goes down.

Birdman


SSS-Rank

I just wonder what this new Sonic game can possibly do to not be an average action game.

I'd like to see something similar to Tranformers Devastation's Overdrive system. You can also burnout to build speed from stationary just like when Sonic spins on the spot.

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