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1 Metroid Dread Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:40 am
vert1
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2 Re: Metroid Dread Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:50 am
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Really amazed that this game exists. I still have a Gaming Magazine that's nearly 15 years old at this point that notes Metroid Dread being in the works for the Nintendo DS and that they even saw footage of it at a con (press only).
Sakamoto notes in one of the interviews just released, that they canceled the game twice, since they couldn't get it to work on then current hardware.
So far, I'm liking the idea. It's a logical continuation of Metroid Fusion with the alien chasing you and I like the concept of inversion (you're stuck on a planet on the inside and have to get out, instead of the otherway around). I'm not too keen on Mercury Steam since Samus Returns doesn't have the best reputation and the counter really slows down the gameplay from what I know (I avoided the game, might buy it this week though).
That said, the footage of the movement-counter seems very good and it looks like they really listened to the feedback on Samus Returns. Artstyle is unique and different too, I kind of like it.
All in all a day one buy for me so far.
Sakamoto notes in one of the interviews just released, that they canceled the game twice, since they couldn't get it to work on then current hardware.
So far, I'm liking the idea. It's a logical continuation of Metroid Fusion with the alien chasing you and I like the concept of inversion (you're stuck on a planet on the inside and have to get out, instead of the otherway around). I'm not too keen on Mercury Steam since Samus Returns doesn't have the best reputation and the counter really slows down the gameplay from what I know (I avoided the game, might buy it this week though).
That said, the footage of the movement-counter seems very good and it looks like they really listened to the feedback on Samus Returns. Artstyle is unique and different too, I kind of like it.
All in all a day one buy for me so far.
3 Re: Metroid Dread Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:05 am
Gregorinho
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I think it's hilarious that what is effectively Metroid 5 will launch before we see even a speck of Prime 4 gameplay. I can only imagine what state that game is in at the moment.
I thought the E3 trailer for this looked pretty good. It may end up being my first Metroid title...
I thought the E3 trailer for this looked pretty good. It may end up being my first Metroid title...
4 judge dread Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:47 am
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Looks promising. Back to 2D feels right.
Honestly, I don't care about Prime 4. They finished the trilogy and they all did very well for their time. Putting a game in this climate could get complicated. Doubt it would be in their "prime".
Move on.
Honestly, I don't care about Prime 4. They finished the trilogy and they all did very well for their time. Putting a game in this climate could get complicated. Doubt it would be in their "prime".
Move on.
5 Re: Metroid Dread Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:43 pm
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Prime 4 is cool since, well, it's more Prime. But honestly it does feel a bit too much catering to fans instead of making something that needs to exist. The Prime series had a fantastic run.
6 Re: Metroid Dread Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:51 pm
hebass
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Looking forward to this one. Been a long time since a true, new 2D Metroid! I remember the fear felt when SA-X appeared, so this should be awesome. Kind of reminds me of some Dahaka run-ins too. You just never know when...
7 beep beep beep beep...beep beep beep beep Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:41 pm
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So, it's MercurySteam again. I passed up on Samus Returns. Perhaps it's because after I 100% a Metroid, I don't touch it again, or at least for a very long time, to forget all locations. And honestly, Metroid may be somewhat of a genre defining brand, but heck if I'm not sick of hearing it again and again from the pale imitators who are so lazy in copying the general layout (and auto world map) that I have some averse feelings to the originators themselves.
Weird, huh?
Weird, huh?
8 Re: Metroid Dread Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:42 pm
Infinity_Divide
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Who’s getting this? I unfortunately have a wedding to go to so I won’t play it until the weekend.
9 Re: Metroid Dread Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:28 pm
Gregorinho
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I am interested, but I've never played a Metroid game - don't know if they're something I'd enjoy. Was curious to see what you guys thought about it...
11 Re: Metroid Dread Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:50 pm
5does
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Zen:
>So, it's MercurySteam again
I know some people liked Samus Return but I stand by the claim that MercurySteam hasn't made any improvements to any of the franchises they've touched in their lifetime and I doubt Dread will be THAT game.
Greg:
>Was curious to see what you guys thought about it...
1 and 2 are 'outdated'but solid games if you can get trough them. Super, fusion, zero mission, Prime 1 are good. Other M is terrible, Samus Return is mediocre, never touched prime 2, 3 and Dread.
The Am2r or whatever the fan remake of 2 is called is great.
>So, it's MercurySteam again
I know some people liked Samus Return but I stand by the claim that MercurySteam hasn't made any improvements to any of the franchises they've touched in their lifetime and I doubt Dread will be THAT game.
Greg:
>Was curious to see what you guys thought about it...
1 and 2 are 'outdated'but solid games if you can get trough them. Super, fusion, zero mission, Prime 1 are good. Other M is terrible, Samus Return is mediocre, never touched prime 2, 3 and Dread.
The Am2r or whatever the fan remake of 2 is called is great.
12 Re: Metroid Dread Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:57 pm
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About an hour in. Hasn’t left a good impression. EMMI sections are lame(can we stop with stalker enemies for fucks sake), enemies are passive, the counter stuff from SR is here and still lame. Hopefully this doesn’t let me down after having recently played Super.
13 Re: Metroid Dread Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:59 pm
5does
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>Hopefully this doesn’t let me down after having recently played Super.
The chance may exist if you haven't picked up Super for the sake of speedrunnuning and delving into all the tech related to it.
>hasn't left a good impression
"But it's the bestest metroid ever" - random shill
The chance may exist if you haven't picked up Super for the sake of speedrunnuning and delving into all the tech related to it.
>hasn't left a good impression
"But it's the bestest metroid ever" - random shill
14 Re: Metroid Dread Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:04 pm
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>delving into all the tech
I looked into it after my first playthrough. Lot of cool stuff in that game, has any other entry in the series had that amount of tech?
>shill shilling new product
GFAQS is predictably full of drones defending everything about Dread. Why do new games get a shield deflecting all criticism but all old games can just be written off as “lol clunk” with no nuance put into the discussion?
Wait, I know the answer.
I looked into it after my first playthrough. Lot of cool stuff in that game, has any other entry in the series had that amount of tech?
>shill shilling new product
GFAQS is predictably full of drones defending everything about Dread. Why do new games get a shield deflecting all criticism but all old games can just be written off as “lol clunk” with no nuance put into the discussion?
Wait, I know the answer.
15 Re: Metroid Dread Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:22 pm
5does
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>same amount
I dont think so, the only recurring thing is wall jump, most of the weird interactions like machball aren't present and you don't have as many sequence breaks thanks to linearity on every game post Super. I think fusion is the most unfriendly in this regard(it doesnt even has wall jump) while Zero was the most friendly going as far as having an in built time attack in the game.
I dont think so, the only recurring thing is wall jump, most of the weird interactions like machball aren't present and you don't have as many sequence breaks thanks to linearity on every game post Super. I think fusion is the most unfriendly in this regard(it doesnt even has wall jump) while Zero was the most friendly going as far as having an in built time attack in the game.
16 Re: Metroid Dread Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:08 pm
hedfone
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It baffles me that Mercurysteam's last metroid game everyone hated.
Yet this game everyone has an extreme blind fervor over, like everyone forgot the last piece of trash MS put out.
Must be a visual thing, it does look good for a switch game. Still looks like shit compared to metroid prime which was a gamecube game
Yet this game everyone has an extreme blind fervor over, like everyone forgot the last piece of trash MS put out.
Must be a visual thing, it does look good for a switch game. Still looks like shit compared to metroid prime which was a gamecube game
17 Re: Metroid Dread Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:24 pm
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Beat it. I’ll post my thoughts later.
18 Re: Metroid Dread Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:59 pm
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I’m in Crete right now on honeymoon, but we had a few days off so I’ve been playing Dread in between stuff. Thought I’d post some notes and thoughts here. Beat the game on 100% completion on Normal and did some Hard Mode stuff.
Generally speaking, it’s a good Metroid game. It really, really needs a while to get going though. Near the start you’re super weak and barely have any options, making combat a drag. it isn’t until you get the Varia Suit (or even later, the bombs) that the game opens up and exploration becomes fun again.
That said, people are praising this game way too much as noted. It’s good. But not real good. I’d say of the mainline series it’s probably the worst. Few notes:
-EMNI is pointless, they are super easily avoided, don’t contribute to anything, don’t have any mechanics to them. Simple “ oh there he is, run away” . Once your map knowledge grows they are even more useless.
-the counter is way too strong, being a true OHKO against everything in the game except bosses. This makes missiles more of a ‘can I do something with this block’ item, than an attack (in regular gameplay). If they’d only let it do more damage, you’d have a great balance between keeping up the pressure and baiting for counters. Now I literally just stand dead still in front of a foe, wait for the shine, counter, win. Counters always regenerate nearly max HP/missiles too, especially early on, which just makes it far too strong and dull.
-the game commits the, imo, ultimate sin of locking off areas by ‘ accidents’ . I’m okay with locking doors, but you’ll often blow something up, which then gates off an entire area, or you’ll flood a zone meaning you can’t go back there. It’s supposed to be ‘ organic’ but it pisses me off to no end.
-bosses are cool but very, very typical “ learn pattern, execute pattern”. You’ll die 3-4 times to learn how to dodge all their stuff, and then Perfect them. The final boss has three phases, making it even more annoying.
-deaths are meaningless, since there are now also ‘checkpoints’ (barf) before every EMNI zone and every boss. They knew they did this, and they thus made bosses deal absolutely insane damage. Some boss attacks, on Normal, deal up to 3 energy tanks in a single hit. ENMI is a full OHKO constantly, it’s the only way they can keep up the pressure in a game where you can immediately retry, which makes for very dull encounters imo.
-I dislike how they didn’t commit to EMNI, he’s way to restrictive, you can’t interact with him in anyway possible, he’s only in a few zones and…yeah. Honestly wish they’d gone bonkers with it and made it a true evolution of the SA-X. How RE2 nailed the entire system back in the 90’s and yet companies still DONT FUCKING GET IT is beyond me.
-you can sequence break to get some upgrades earlier, yet it then notes “ you don’t have this weapon yet” , and doesn’t give it to you. Seems lazy.
-not a fan of how missiles are the only way to damage most bosses, the regular beam is basically useless.
-areas are extremely overly detailed, yet lack a distinct ‘ landmark’ making the game a literal maze. I have no idea where I am half the time, yet I can draw Fusion’s map from memory since every room is distinct. Super confusing, not a fan of this art-design.
-unlockables are extremely limited. On the GBA I could excuse it, but on the Switch you can’t have just 10~ pieces of artwork while Prime boasted like 200 pieces of concept art.
Some plus points:
-you are insanely mobile, which is super cool. With the slide, air dash, speedboats etc you are basically Ryu/Dante’s lovechild at some point. She controls like a dream.
-the counter cinematics for bosses are really cool
-you can sequence break to get some core items earlier, and one boss has a unique weakness (OHKO) against an item that you can’t have yet, with a unique animation, which is super neat.
- liked how the map was done, it gives enough hints to where items can be but doesn’t spell it all out for you like some older titles or Prime’s did.
-exploration is fantastic once the game opens up, had a lot of fun getting 100% items though I admit it was a tad too easy. Most of the speedbooster ones were pretty tame too, only a few ones gave me trouble.
-the story is pretty neat, with some good revelations and builds on previous lore. The ending is a neat twist and it sets the stage for the future games. I will say that … without spoilers…they ‘ reset’ something that happens like 3 seconds before the game ends which is SUCH a huge shame honestly. Wish they’d kept that change.
-Samus is really well done as a character here imo.
All that said, it’s a 2d metroid game in HD in 2021 that’s pretty well designed. Beggers can’t be choosers. I am a tad afraid that this will be the best selling game in the series however, and that mercuryssteam will become the defecto 2dmetroid team, while they still get so much stuff wrong.
It’s a fun game, but I think after Hard I’ll probably never touch it again. Unlike Super, Fusion and ZM or the Prime’s.
Generally speaking, it’s a good Metroid game. It really, really needs a while to get going though. Near the start you’re super weak and barely have any options, making combat a drag. it isn’t until you get the Varia Suit (or even later, the bombs) that the game opens up and exploration becomes fun again.
That said, people are praising this game way too much as noted. It’s good. But not real good. I’d say of the mainline series it’s probably the worst. Few notes:
-EMNI is pointless, they are super easily avoided, don’t contribute to anything, don’t have any mechanics to them. Simple “ oh there he is, run away” . Once your map knowledge grows they are even more useless.
-the counter is way too strong, being a true OHKO against everything in the game except bosses. This makes missiles more of a ‘can I do something with this block’ item, than an attack (in regular gameplay). If they’d only let it do more damage, you’d have a great balance between keeping up the pressure and baiting for counters. Now I literally just stand dead still in front of a foe, wait for the shine, counter, win. Counters always regenerate nearly max HP/missiles too, especially early on, which just makes it far too strong and dull.
-the game commits the, imo, ultimate sin of locking off areas by ‘ accidents’ . I’m okay with locking doors, but you’ll often blow something up, which then gates off an entire area, or you’ll flood a zone meaning you can’t go back there. It’s supposed to be ‘ organic’ but it pisses me off to no end.
-bosses are cool but very, very typical “ learn pattern, execute pattern”. You’ll die 3-4 times to learn how to dodge all their stuff, and then Perfect them. The final boss has three phases, making it even more annoying.
-deaths are meaningless, since there are now also ‘checkpoints’ (barf) before every EMNI zone and every boss. They knew they did this, and they thus made bosses deal absolutely insane damage. Some boss attacks, on Normal, deal up to 3 energy tanks in a single hit. ENMI is a full OHKO constantly, it’s the only way they can keep up the pressure in a game where you can immediately retry, which makes for very dull encounters imo.
-I dislike how they didn’t commit to EMNI, he’s way to restrictive, you can’t interact with him in anyway possible, he’s only in a few zones and…yeah. Honestly wish they’d gone bonkers with it and made it a true evolution of the SA-X. How RE2 nailed the entire system back in the 90’s and yet companies still DONT FUCKING GET IT is beyond me.
-you can sequence break to get some upgrades earlier, yet it then notes “ you don’t have this weapon yet” , and doesn’t give it to you. Seems lazy.
-not a fan of how missiles are the only way to damage most bosses, the regular beam is basically useless.
-areas are extremely overly detailed, yet lack a distinct ‘ landmark’ making the game a literal maze. I have no idea where I am half the time, yet I can draw Fusion’s map from memory since every room is distinct. Super confusing, not a fan of this art-design.
-unlockables are extremely limited. On the GBA I could excuse it, but on the Switch you can’t have just 10~ pieces of artwork while Prime boasted like 200 pieces of concept art.
Some plus points:
-you are insanely mobile, which is super cool. With the slide, air dash, speedboats etc you are basically Ryu/Dante’s lovechild at some point. She controls like a dream.
-the counter cinematics for bosses are really cool
-you can sequence break to get some core items earlier, and one boss has a unique weakness (OHKO) against an item that you can’t have yet, with a unique animation, which is super neat.
- liked how the map was done, it gives enough hints to where items can be but doesn’t spell it all out for you like some older titles or Prime’s did.
-exploration is fantastic once the game opens up, had a lot of fun getting 100% items though I admit it was a tad too easy. Most of the speedbooster ones were pretty tame too, only a few ones gave me trouble.
-the story is pretty neat, with some good revelations and builds on previous lore. The ending is a neat twist and it sets the stage for the future games. I will say that … without spoilers…they ‘ reset’ something that happens like 3 seconds before the game ends which is SUCH a huge shame honestly. Wish they’d kept that change.
-Samus is really well done as a character here imo.
All that said, it’s a 2d metroid game in HD in 2021 that’s pretty well designed. Beggers can’t be choosers. I am a tad afraid that this will be the best selling game in the series however, and that mercuryssteam will become the defecto 2dmetroid team, while they still get so much stuff wrong.
It’s a fun game, but I think after Hard I’ll probably never touch it again. Unlike Super, Fusion and ZM or the Prime’s.
19 Re: Metroid Dread Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:54 pm
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Oh and the pacing is wack. At first you barely get bosses but near thr end it is back to back almost. Do like how they dare to give you the morph ball so late
20 Re: Metroid Dread Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:11 pm
Infinity_Divide
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I agree with almost everything you said. I’ll add a few things of my own though:
-I don’t think exploration was handled well here. The game is, as Roy said, a complete maze, the map is kind of a mess, and the game completely funnels you to the next objective for the entire game. If you break away from the next main story beat good luck finding where you were supposed to be going. What’s worse than that, is how you’re rewarded for exploring: missile tanks. So we have a counter, that kills almost everything in one hit from the get-go, as well as screw attack, but I’m supposed to go back and comb through the entire game for missiles, which are weaker than these other options? What is the point of that? This leads me to my next point…
-What were they thinking with these attacks? The counter is a OHKO, with mostly generous timings, that has enemies just repeating their attacks over and over until you get it right, while we have missiles, a FINITE resource, that is much, much weaker. What in the hell? And add on that the game rewards you with extra health/missiles for doing the counter, and you just have to wonder why even do anything else.
-The game has the same problem I keep talking about with these games: once you get some energy tanks and upgrade under your belt, the enemies are just a fucking joke. There’s almost no threat to traversal, until you get to a boss that randomly kills you in 3-4 hits. I can’t remember the last time I played a game that gave me this much whiplash from inconsistency like this.
-it really can’t be overstated how obvious all the paths forward are. After the first 1/3 of the game, the entire rest of the run feels like->find power up->use it in obvious spot just a couple rooms over->fight boss->take elevator to different area->find new power ups after 10 minutes->repeat.
I’ll probably try to do another playthrough but it’s just weird for me. It’s way too linear to be a proper Metroid, and has the stupid counter and other bullshit which prevents it from being a proper action platformer.
It’s fine I guess.
-I don’t think exploration was handled well here. The game is, as Roy said, a complete maze, the map is kind of a mess, and the game completely funnels you to the next objective for the entire game. If you break away from the next main story beat good luck finding where you were supposed to be going. What’s worse than that, is how you’re rewarded for exploring: missile tanks. So we have a counter, that kills almost everything in one hit from the get-go, as well as screw attack, but I’m supposed to go back and comb through the entire game for missiles, which are weaker than these other options? What is the point of that? This leads me to my next point…
-What were they thinking with these attacks? The counter is a OHKO, with mostly generous timings, that has enemies just repeating their attacks over and over until you get it right, while we have missiles, a FINITE resource, that is much, much weaker. What in the hell? And add on that the game rewards you with extra health/missiles for doing the counter, and you just have to wonder why even do anything else.
-The game has the same problem I keep talking about with these games: once you get some energy tanks and upgrade under your belt, the enemies are just a fucking joke. There’s almost no threat to traversal, until you get to a boss that randomly kills you in 3-4 hits. I can’t remember the last time I played a game that gave me this much whiplash from inconsistency like this.
-it really can’t be overstated how obvious all the paths forward are. After the first 1/3 of the game, the entire rest of the run feels like->find power up->use it in obvious spot just a couple rooms over->fight boss->take elevator to different area->find new power ups after 10 minutes->repeat.
I’ll probably try to do another playthrough but it’s just weird for me. It’s way too linear to be a proper Metroid, and has the stupid counter and other bullshit which prevents it from being a proper action platformer.
It’s fine I guess.
21 A-MAZE-MENT 2021 Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:06 pm
Guest
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Fine? The sum total of what I read here sounds seriously retarted, err, I mean metroidically challenged. I'm all for evolutionary change in a numerous video games series (what else would be the "point", oh NO don't say give 'em what they want), yet this spells devolution. As in give the sluggy kids (and bearded dads) some good feels about playing mediocre. That's fine, really. Just put a sticker on it that reads: YOU AWESOME! DUH.
22 Re: Metroid Dread Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:56 pm
5does
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They mean it's fine for 2k21 vidya standards, what I read is pretty much what I expected, MercurySteam get some things right, double down on stupid garbage like counter, manage to get a bunch of different stuff wrong, ultimately the product ends up being an inferior to its predecessors only held by what made the series good to begin with before they had any involvement in it.
Roy:
>I am a tad afraid that this will be the best selling game in the series however, and that mercuryssteam will become the defecto 2dmetroid team, while they still get so much stuff wrong.
https://i.servimg.com/u/f54/20/22/89/43/2210.jpg
Roy:
>I am a tad afraid that this will be the best selling game in the series however, and that mercuryssteam will become the defecto 2dmetroid team, while they still get so much stuff wrong.
https://i.servimg.com/u/f54/20/22/89/43/2210.jpg
Last edited by 5does on Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
23 Re: Metroid Dread Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:24 pm
Infinity_Divide
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>They mean it's fine for 2k21 vidya standards
Yeah. It’s one of 3 new games I bought in the last year I don’t want to throw in the trash, but it’s not exactly great either. I might mess around with speed running but I doubt I’ll do much with it.
Yeah. It’s one of 3 new games I bought in the last year I don’t want to throw in the trash, but it’s not exactly great either. I might mess around with speed running but I doubt I’ll do much with it.
24 Re: Metroid Dread Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:27 am
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Yeah for a modern game, this is a pretty deep mechanical sequence breakable exploration game with a huge emphasis on gameplay. Compared to the rest of its series though, it's a pretty big joke. Honestly you could replace Samus here with any other MetroidVania protagonist, and it would work imo. That said, for a 2021 game, it's solid. Probably one of the more gamey games I've played this generation that wasn't from Platinum or the Big-N themselves.
Finished Hard twice more, getting better at it. Some few new notes:
- it goes to show just how bad the level design is that even after 3 runs I have no idea what room connects to what room, it all feels like a bunch of random rooms shuffled together.
- can we talk about just how unmemorable the music is. What happened?
- you can sequence break pretty easily once you get the Speedboost. Managed to skip a boss and get the screw attack and gravity suit pretty early. Made Esunde (?) a joke, which is pretty enjoyable.
- the damage on Hard is just out of this world. Gold ChozoGuard deals nearly 5 energy tanks of damage if you touch him.
- you can use speedboats quite a lot on bosses too, which is funky, deals a lot of damage. Even skips one whole phase on the harder one (that giant monster that's in the background, Experiment blabla something).
My biggest disappointment though, strangely, is the endings. There aren't any. You don't even see Samus take off her helm if you beat it faster. You just get a different piece of concept(?) art unlocked. It's just fucking disappointing.
Apparently there's a pretty big pushback, also from developers, on how the game is " too hard" (don't look at me lol). So the next game will probably be even more auto-pilot.
Finished Hard twice more, getting better at it. Some few new notes:
- it goes to show just how bad the level design is that even after 3 runs I have no idea what room connects to what room, it all feels like a bunch of random rooms shuffled together.
- can we talk about just how unmemorable the music is. What happened?
- you can sequence break pretty easily once you get the Speedboost. Managed to skip a boss and get the screw attack and gravity suit pretty early. Made Esunde (?) a joke, which is pretty enjoyable.
- the damage on Hard is just out of this world. Gold ChozoGuard deals nearly 5 energy tanks of damage if you touch him.
- you can use speedboats quite a lot on bosses too, which is funky, deals a lot of damage. Even skips one whole phase on the harder one (that giant monster that's in the background, Experiment blabla something).
My biggest disappointment though, strangely, is the endings. There aren't any. You don't even see Samus take off her helm if you beat it faster. You just get a different piece of concept(?) art unlocked. It's just fucking disappointing.
Apparently there's a pretty big pushback, also from developers, on how the game is " too hard" (don't look at me lol). So the next game will probably be even more auto-pilot.
25 Re: Metroid Dread Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:38 am
Birdman
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>Too hard
Shouldn't even be a consideration if multiple difficulties are added. No one HAS to play the hardest modes. So there's always something for everyone.
I suppose there are those games that only have one setting. But devs can solve that with multiple difficulties.
But here's the truth. It's not about being too hard. The losers aren't satisfied with beating easy or normal. They feel so insecure just seeing a harder mode in the options. They want to be able to say they can beat that too. When they can't they whine for changes.
Really what they want is a full set of difficulties where the highest is still easy. That way they can feel like champs. So the devs can't win.
Well they could, by not listening to trash.
Shouldn't even be a consideration if multiple difficulties are added. No one HAS to play the hardest modes. So there's always something for everyone.
I suppose there are those games that only have one setting. But devs can solve that with multiple difficulties.
But here's the truth. It's not about being too hard. The losers aren't satisfied with beating easy or normal. They feel so insecure just seeing a harder mode in the options. They want to be able to say they can beat that too. When they can't they whine for changes.
Really what they want is a full set of difficulties where the highest is still easy. That way they can feel like champs. So the devs can't win.
Well they could, by not listening to trash.
26 Re: Metroid Dread Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:07 pm
Royta/Raeng
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Should add a few things:
- Samus really, really controls well. Despite my gripes with the game, I keep coming back to it purely based on how fun Samus is to control. It's one of the few instances where a character never does A when you want B if you get me. She's just fast enough, jumps exactly high enough etc. If you told me half the budget went to her movement, I'd believe it.
- I'm starting to like the counter more and more. It's cool that when you dash, it's also a melee attack that oHKO's some foes. If you use it early, you can stun a foe, so you can run past. You can do all sorts of funky shit with it. Just wish it wasn't an OHKO...
- one big other gripe I have is how the environment barely is used with items. There's only like 3 grapple points in the game, instead we have grapple-doors. There's only one room where you can freeze platforms to progress (and even then it's only tied to an missile upgrade), otherwise there's ice-missile ' doors' . There's only one time you can freeze an enemy for an early upgrade (and only if you backtrack super far, and it's a missile upgrade...) Every upgrade is there to destroy a block-type or open a door. We have charge-beam doors for fucks sake haha. That should say enough.
> regarding metroid as a whole
I think we can argue though, that at this point Super Metroid is the odd one out instead of the benchmark. Metroid 1 and Super are the only real ' open exploration ' games in the series, with Fusion being extremely lineair and Zero Mission being all about the illusion of freedom. Then we have the Prime games, which are also pretty lineair and Other M (don't) and now Dread.
> regarding the difficulty
It's more that its...godforbid me saying this, Dark Souls'esque difficulty regarding bosses. I.e. they hit like a truck, have a few moves that you need to learn the pattern of, and then you win. I haven't beaten a single boss on my first go, or even my second. First two runs were always "okay so if he does this I should do that right?" . This is on Normal. It makes for a difficult time for beginners, but on subsequent runs it also makes the bosses a joke, since they are super-pattern based.
- Samus really, really controls well. Despite my gripes with the game, I keep coming back to it purely based on how fun Samus is to control. It's one of the few instances where a character never does A when you want B if you get me. She's just fast enough, jumps exactly high enough etc. If you told me half the budget went to her movement, I'd believe it.
- I'm starting to like the counter more and more. It's cool that when you dash, it's also a melee attack that oHKO's some foes. If you use it early, you can stun a foe, so you can run past. You can do all sorts of funky shit with it. Just wish it wasn't an OHKO...
- one big other gripe I have is how the environment barely is used with items. There's only like 3 grapple points in the game, instead we have grapple-doors. There's only one room where you can freeze platforms to progress (and even then it's only tied to an missile upgrade), otherwise there's ice-missile ' doors' . There's only one time you can freeze an enemy for an early upgrade (and only if you backtrack super far, and it's a missile upgrade...) Every upgrade is there to destroy a block-type or open a door. We have charge-beam doors for fucks sake haha. That should say enough.
> regarding metroid as a whole
I think we can argue though, that at this point Super Metroid is the odd one out instead of the benchmark. Metroid 1 and Super are the only real ' open exploration ' games in the series, with Fusion being extremely lineair and Zero Mission being all about the illusion of freedom. Then we have the Prime games, which are also pretty lineair and Other M (don't) and now Dread.
> regarding the difficulty
It's more that its...godforbid me saying this, Dark Souls'esque difficulty regarding bosses. I.e. they hit like a truck, have a few moves that you need to learn the pattern of, and then you win. I haven't beaten a single boss on my first go, or even my second. First two runs were always "okay so if he does this I should do that right?" . This is on Normal. It makes for a difficult time for beginners, but on subsequent runs it also makes the bosses a joke, since they are super-pattern based.
27 Re: Metroid Dread Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:11 pm
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> can we talk about just how unmemorable the music is
This game has music?
This game has music?
28 Re: Metroid Dread Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:02 pm
5does
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>unmemorable the music is. What happened?
Nintendo decided this guy wasn't good enough
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5V-DAbIdAY&list=PLlvExVPF1E2fPa-NfRrcxhRDJjVIBG0lE&index=3
>Randomly shuffled rooms
>Nonsense damage
Funny thing is, if you somehow want this on Metroid you can just play modded versions of Super such as hard or the randomizer lol.
>There aren't any
Fanservice bad.
>the next game will probably be even more auto-pilot.
Too bad we don't have an Itagaki present on every single development team.
>Super Metroid is the odd one out instead of the benchmark
Super was a lightning in a bottle, I doubt the same team would be able to replicate the formula on another game even if they tried, I think the magic here is all of the stuff that went through on accident.
>Dark Souls'esque difficulty regarding bosses
We'll never see another hectic fight like Super's Ridley will we?
Nintendo decided this guy wasn't good enough
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5V-DAbIdAY&list=PLlvExVPF1E2fPa-NfRrcxhRDJjVIBG0lE&index=3
>Randomly shuffled rooms
>Nonsense damage
Funny thing is, if you somehow want this on Metroid you can just play modded versions of Super such as hard or the randomizer lol.
>There aren't any
Fanservice bad.
>the next game will probably be even more auto-pilot.
Too bad we don't have an Itagaki present on every single development team.
>Super Metroid is the odd one out instead of the benchmark
Super was a lightning in a bottle, I doubt the same team would be able to replicate the formula on another game even if they tried, I think the magic here is all of the stuff that went through on accident.
>Dark Souls'esque difficulty regarding bosses
We'll never see another hectic fight like Super's Ridley will we?
29 Re: Metroid Dread Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:32 am
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Finish the game a few more times, record is 2:41 while barely even trying and constantly going the wrong way. Even now I can't build a map in my head, so many rooms have no distinct features and I can't even recall which zone has which bosses. I wandered around for like 10 minutes thinking "which area has the Storm Missiles again"?
Have to say I do like the Speedbooster and the freedom it gives you, but I also feel that most of Dread's strenghts are what's left of the original games instead of their own additions. The bosses are an especially big joke for me now that I know the patterns.
> auto pilot sequel
It's almost scary how the game railroads you. It's basically a lineair game at this point unless you 'Sequence Break', which seem more like developer intended side-tracks, since these also loop back to the next item and are rewarded through in-game boss alternative kill method.
> Super
Going to buy an original copy sometime this week, only played it on my Wii back in the day.
> hectic fight
No. Assume we'll get "an honest and fair" boss where "each attack is fully avoidable" and with neon-sign telegraphs of what they'll do next. They already added a meter for Aeon Abilities, I wouldn't be surprised if we'd get stamina the next time.
Have to say I do like the Speedbooster and the freedom it gives you, but I also feel that most of Dread's strenghts are what's left of the original games instead of their own additions. The bosses are an especially big joke for me now that I know the patterns.
> auto pilot sequel
It's almost scary how the game railroads you. It's basically a lineair game at this point unless you 'Sequence Break', which seem more like developer intended side-tracks, since these also loop back to the next item and are rewarded through in-game boss alternative kill method.
> Super
Going to buy an original copy sometime this week, only played it on my Wii back in the day.
> hectic fight
No. Assume we'll get "an honest and fair" boss where "each attack is fully avoidable" and with neon-sign telegraphs of what they'll do next. They already added a meter for Aeon Abilities, I wouldn't be surprised if we'd get stamina the next time.
30 Re: Metroid Dread Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:25 pm
Phoenix Wright
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Seeing all this praise for Super makes me want to play it again. And since I only played it once years ago, it might as well be a fresh run. Anyone knows a good video or article of some kind that details all the tech used in Super?
31 Re: Metroid Dread Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:08 pm
Birdman
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My brother linked me to some Jaffe Twitter post of him ranting about this game and hard games in general. The guy really hates difficulty and female characters that aren't ugly. Watched one of his vids and he seems unhinged.
32 Re: Metroid Dread Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:11 pm
5does
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>All the tech
https://wiki.supermetroid.run/Main_Page
>Jaffe
Jaffe has been going through male menopause for a few years already.
https://wiki.supermetroid.run/Main_Page
>Jaffe
Jaffe has been going through male menopause for a few years already.
33 Re: Metroid Dread Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:01 am
HotPocketHPE
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I agree with most of the stuff people said here, but I still really like the game. The movement and controls are so fun that it outweighs the downsides like bad maps, bad music, highly patterned bosses (I don't mind this one too much), etc.
The glitches are looking really promising so far. You can shoot charge beams much faster than normal with a spin jump, jump higher than intended underwater with bombs, clip a beam shot through certain walls to break the red exploding things early, and clip through 1 tile thick floors with a shinespark. I'm hopeful even more stuff will be discovered.
Did Hard no space jump and spin boost run, and 0% run (no E tanks or missile tanks). Really recommend no space jump and spin boost, changes up your late game movement in a cool way and gives a fun challenge for dodging certain boss attacks. 0% is alright, taught me that you can shinespark a ton of bosses. Last boss gets really annoying though, you have to mash wave beam a fuckton which made my hand hurt.
Overall a really cool game, it's no Super but like you all said I think that one was lightning in a bottle.
>Samus Returns
Dread is so much better than Samus Returns it's not even funny. I played through SR last week and it actually made me feel sleepy at times, which has never happened to me in any other game. Bad fucking game.
The glitches are looking really promising so far. You can shoot charge beams much faster than normal with a spin jump, jump higher than intended underwater with bombs, clip a beam shot through certain walls to break the red exploding things early, and clip through 1 tile thick floors with a shinespark. I'm hopeful even more stuff will be discovered.
Did Hard no space jump and spin boost run, and 0% run (no E tanks or missile tanks). Really recommend no space jump and spin boost, changes up your late game movement in a cool way and gives a fun challenge for dodging certain boss attacks. 0% is alright, taught me that you can shinespark a ton of bosses. Last boss gets really annoying though, you have to mash wave beam a fuckton which made my hand hurt.
Overall a really cool game, it's no Super but like you all said I think that one was lightning in a bottle.
>Samus Returns
Dread is so much better than Samus Returns it's not even funny. I played through SR last week and it actually made me feel sleepy at times, which has never happened to me in any other game. Bad fucking game.
34 Re: Metroid Dread Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:02 am
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I saw a tweet that summed up my feelings pretty decently, namely "it's a good game, but some gripes to see the game improve isn't going to send Metroid back into the coal mines". It's a very modern thing to constantly claim a game is either the best thing to ever exist, or it's garbage. Dread is in the middle, it isn't the best in the series, it sure as hell isn't the worst.
But critism hits a lot harder when the general consenscous with every release of a game is "it's the best in the series", especially when those comments come from people that have only been fans of the games for about 2 weeks.
For me Dread is squarely in the middle. It's better than games like Corruption, Metroid 2, SR and Other M. But it's still outclassed imo by games like Fusion, Zero Mission, Prime and obviously Super. Doesn't make it terrible, doesn't make it outstanding. Just makes it darn good.
> glitches
This is a bit of a weird one for me. Generally speaking, most sequence breaks in Metroid tend to come from smart usage of abilities in combinations with the enviroment. Getting the GrappleBeam early in Dread is ironically a good example, same with the early Gravity Suit. You use exploration (knowing where those blocks are to get to that area early) paired with some tricky slide-jumps to get somewhere early.
Clipping through walls. Opening doors from other sides. That's kind of like the secret-worlds in Prime and the door-clipping in Metroid 1. It's cool, but not really what I love about Metroid's sequence breaking if you get me.
> movement is good
Definitely. If anything it's probably the best it's been. I think if they can find a balance between having this great movement but also somehow make the skillceiling of it a tad higher (perhaps make shinesparking not so easy? no idea), it'd be perfect.
Things like badmaps, music etc. are points to improve for sure.
But critism hits a lot harder when the general consenscous with every release of a game is "it's the best in the series", especially when those comments come from people that have only been fans of the games for about 2 weeks.
For me Dread is squarely in the middle. It's better than games like Corruption, Metroid 2, SR and Other M. But it's still outclassed imo by games like Fusion, Zero Mission, Prime and obviously Super. Doesn't make it terrible, doesn't make it outstanding. Just makes it darn good.
> glitches
This is a bit of a weird one for me. Generally speaking, most sequence breaks in Metroid tend to come from smart usage of abilities in combinations with the enviroment. Getting the GrappleBeam early in Dread is ironically a good example, same with the early Gravity Suit. You use exploration (knowing where those blocks are to get to that area early) paired with some tricky slide-jumps to get somewhere early.
Clipping through walls. Opening doors from other sides. That's kind of like the secret-worlds in Prime and the door-clipping in Metroid 1. It's cool, but not really what I love about Metroid's sequence breaking if you get me.
> movement is good
Definitely. If anything it's probably the best it's been. I think if they can find a balance between having this great movement but also somehow make the skillceiling of it a tad higher (perhaps make shinesparking not so easy? no idea), it'd be perfect.
Things like badmaps, music etc. are points to improve for sure.
35 Re: Metroid Dread Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:48 am
HotPocketHPE
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Honestly I didn't expect to like this game nearly as much as I did, it's really weird.
>Criticism
Yeah there's a lot to improve, and stuff that got "lost" along the way from other games. Definitely not the fulfillment of the series by any means. IDK where I would put it in the rankings, it's been way too long since I played a lot of the other games.
>glitches, sequence breaks
I prefer the way you described, where it's a natural result of mechanics and map knowledge. That being said the glitches are better than nothing, and they're just really clicking with me for some reason.
For example, the last boss's attack where he shoots in a circle is intended to be dodged with space jump. But when you skip space jump with the underwater bomb glitch, you have to come up with a new strategy to deal with it. I dashed through while the bullet stream was going straight down to minimize damage, but it turns out you can also use the cross bomb to get enough height to jump over it once. The stuff like that is so cool to me.
I'm really appreciating the unintended aspects of games more these days, they can really enhance the experience. Of course sometimes it does the opposite.
>Criticism
Yeah there's a lot to improve, and stuff that got "lost" along the way from other games. Definitely not the fulfillment of the series by any means. IDK where I would put it in the rankings, it's been way too long since I played a lot of the other games.
>glitches, sequence breaks
I prefer the way you described, where it's a natural result of mechanics and map knowledge. That being said the glitches are better than nothing, and they're just really clicking with me for some reason.
For example, the last boss's attack where he shoots in a circle is intended to be dodged with space jump. But when you skip space jump with the underwater bomb glitch, you have to come up with a new strategy to deal with it. I dashed through while the bullet stream was going straight down to minimize damage, but it turns out you can also use the cross bomb to get enough height to jump over it once. The stuff like that is so cool to me.
I'm really appreciating the unintended aspects of games more these days, they can really enhance the experience. Of course sometimes it does the opposite.
36 Re: Metroid Dread Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:45 am
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> skips/glitches
Stuff like the cross-bomb to avoid attacks is less glitches and more in terms of 'smartly using your abilities', which is what I love about great Metroid games yeah. Same with how some players smartly use the Speedboost to nuke certain bosses, just so much funky things that are a joy to do. I think those are the good middlepoint.
Stuff like the morphball OHKO against Kraid in Dread or the Grapplebeam OHKO in Super are fun, but a bit too 'designed' if you get me.
> played the others
They are worth a replay these days imo. Ironically especially the Primes, since they really nail the 'lineair but not' aspect of Metroid with some honest to god great combat systems/bosses. Just such a solid series.
I think it also really depends on what you want from the games. With 2d Metroid I crave the exploration/wacky movement mechanics more than from the 3d entries for example. I don't need shinespark puzzles in Prime, but they HAVE to be in a 2d Metroid imo since they just add so much you know.
> lost along the way
Think we'll just have to accept that MercurySteam is definitely making a statement of what 'modern Metroid' is in their eyes. I am curious where they'll go from here though in terms of gameplay. Streamlining it 'more' would crush the soul of the game. Mobility is already topnotch. They can't really push the counter, their unique staple, more than they have now. We'll have to wait and see.
Stuff like the cross-bomb to avoid attacks is less glitches and more in terms of 'smartly using your abilities', which is what I love about great Metroid games yeah. Same with how some players smartly use the Speedboost to nuke certain bosses, just so much funky things that are a joy to do. I think those are the good middlepoint.
Stuff like the morphball OHKO against Kraid in Dread or the Grapplebeam OHKO in Super are fun, but a bit too 'designed' if you get me.
> played the others
They are worth a replay these days imo. Ironically especially the Primes, since they really nail the 'lineair but not' aspect of Metroid with some honest to god great combat systems/bosses. Just such a solid series.
I think it also really depends on what you want from the games. With 2d Metroid I crave the exploration/wacky movement mechanics more than from the 3d entries for example. I don't need shinespark puzzles in Prime, but they HAVE to be in a 2d Metroid imo since they just add so much you know.
> lost along the way
Think we'll just have to accept that MercurySteam is definitely making a statement of what 'modern Metroid' is in their eyes. I am curious where they'll go from here though in terms of gameplay. Streamlining it 'more' would crush the soul of the game. Mobility is already topnotch. They can't really push the counter, their unique staple, more than they have now. We'll have to wait and see.
37 Re: Metroid Dread Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:26 pm
Infinity_Divide
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I’m trying to find motivation to play this again but it’s just not happening.
38 Re: Metroid Dread Sun Oct 31, 2021 3:15 pm
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It's pretty fun to tinker with the sequence breaking, or to do a 0% run with low%upgrades (i.e. no spin jump/space jump/flash). That said I also feel a bit 'finished' with the game currently. Wonder if they'll add a randomizer esque mode somehow down the line.
39 Another M iss Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:44 pm
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What could be the motivation for releasing a playable demo a whole chunk after the release? Easy, yeah, for grabbing those on the fence. Or maybe, not without some gratification, it is not the smash hit yet that they want it to be? The one Metroid that could. Perform commercially.
There, I said it. Metroids are nerd games.
There, I said it. Metroids are nerd games.
40 Re: Metroid Dread Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:52 pm
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If anything I think they'll use the Demo to make sure it leaves a mark. Metroid has always been a niche series for them, especially in Japan, so maybe they see this as a time to really get people on board. I wouldn't be surprised if Dread was doing very, very well. Most numbers seem to point towards that fact*
* though some numbers are, due to age, pretty hard to come by. Though I don't think it'd be a big surprise if this game would outsell Super Metroid.
* though some numbers are, due to age, pretty hard to come by. Though I don't think it'd be a big surprise if this game would outsell Super Metroid.
41 Re: Metroid Dread Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:12 am
hedfone
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Can you guys who have played it comment on how accurate this is? It really sounds terrible lol
42 Re: Metroid Dread Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:18 am
vert1
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He's right about the parry. The other stuff is too mixed up to comment on.
I really find discussing this game is another Metroid: Other M situation because it is so entangled in professionalism and amateurish design. It's gotta be more pleasant to just write and drop a review here than discuss it in parts.
I really find discussing this game is another Metroid: Other M situation because it is so entangled in professionalism and amateurish design. It's gotta be more pleasant to just write and drop a review here than discuss it in parts.
43 Re: Metroid Dread Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:09 am
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It's hard to see what he actually really believes and what's just bait but regarding some points:
> counter
Pretty on the mark, it's also my biggest complaint. It adds nothing, it subtracts everything. You can counter EMMI though, but the timing is randomized and only 8 frames, so it's practically unreactable.
> super lineair, yet you get lost
This one hit me pretty hard ironically. Very true. The levels really are a ....mishmash of rooms just stapelled together. There's no internal logic. Imagine if you're in Magmoor Caverns in Prime, and suddenly one room is Chozo Ruins style. It's just...really confusing. The game is super lineair in that it locks doors behind you/makes passages crumble to block your path back and always has your next route be ahead of you i.e. a door locks behind you, morph ball bombs are in front of you and behind it is the bomb-block you need the bombs for to continue (example).
If you by some miracle get off the intended path, it's nearly impossible to find your way again on your first time.
> missiles prompt loadscreens
This was a joke.
> cancelled Prime 4 became Dread
It sure as fuck feels that way sometimes.
> counter
Pretty on the mark, it's also my biggest complaint. It adds nothing, it subtracts everything. You can counter EMMI though, but the timing is randomized and only 8 frames, so it's practically unreactable.
> super lineair, yet you get lost
This one hit me pretty hard ironically. Very true. The levels really are a ....mishmash of rooms just stapelled together. There's no internal logic. Imagine if you're in Magmoor Caverns in Prime, and suddenly one room is Chozo Ruins style. It's just...really confusing. The game is super lineair in that it locks doors behind you/makes passages crumble to block your path back and always has your next route be ahead of you i.e. a door locks behind you, morph ball bombs are in front of you and behind it is the bomb-block you need the bombs for to continue (example).
If you by some miracle get off the intended path, it's nearly impossible to find your way again on your first time.
> missiles prompt loadscreens
This was a joke.
> cancelled Prime 4 became Dread
It sure as fuck feels that way sometimes.
44 Re: Metroid Dread Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:45 pm
Infinity_Divide
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Not sure if he’s being serious or shitposting in that video.
>counter adds nothing and subtracts everything
Perfect way of explaining it. There’s literally no thought or decision making behind it. Just press the button when you see a shiny enemy. Rinse and repeat for 8 hours. The fact that this gives you way more health than any other kill is just…no.
>super linear yet you get lost
During both playthroughs I kept thinking, “man, if I somehow stray from this intended path, I will have no fucking clue where to go”. The devs obviously knew this would be a problem with how awkward the world design is, so they just completely funnel you to the next power up. It is quite literally the most bizarre level design I’ve ever seen.
>prime 4
I don’t think I want a prime 4 until the next Nintendo console. The switch is too weak, and I’m not a graphics whore by any means, but big Switch titles are running at like 20fps. Unacceptable.
>counter adds nothing and subtracts everything
Perfect way of explaining it. There’s literally no thought or decision making behind it. Just press the button when you see a shiny enemy. Rinse and repeat for 8 hours. The fact that this gives you way more health than any other kill is just…no.
>super linear yet you get lost
During both playthroughs I kept thinking, “man, if I somehow stray from this intended path, I will have no fucking clue where to go”. The devs obviously knew this would be a problem with how awkward the world design is, so they just completely funnel you to the next power up. It is quite literally the most bizarre level design I’ve ever seen.
>prime 4
I don’t think I want a prime 4 until the next Nintendo console. The switch is too weak, and I’m not a graphics whore by any means, but big Switch titles are running at like 20fps. Unacceptable.
45 Re: Metroid Dread Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:56 pm
Royta/Raeng
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That and Prime, imo, really could benefit from it. Prime 1 and 2 were dropdead gorgeous when they came out, Prime 3 too (despite its resolution). I really hope they push that envelope further instead of settling for a specific new take on the artstyle.
> level design
I mean, we have Grapple-beam doors. Can it get any more worse than this honestly haha.
> level design
I mean, we have Grapple-beam doors. Can it get any more worse than this honestly haha.
46 Re: Metroid Dread Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:39 am
vert1
C-Rank
How many of the EMMIs were you guys able to defeat in one try? Also, do you have to enter the Konami Code to skip the intro cutscene in Hard Mode?
I wrote a review for the game:
I wrote a review for the game:
- Spoiler:
- Release Date: October 8, 2021
Developer: Mercury Steam / Nintendo
Director: Fumihiko Hayashi
Rating: 3/5
Metroid is everything.
Presentation – Trailer – Boxart – Intro
First looking at the game, at its game trailer, I saw a mix of things I liked and things of concern. What I was most impressed with was the cinematic view where the camera shifts closely behind Samus over-the-shoulder style. For the major concern: the numerous cutscene use. Everything I expected from the trailer was fully realized within the game. The somewhat crude boldness of the boxart, menu screen, and intro movie all further contributed to my skeptical view.
Movement – Samus Abilities – Parry – Enemies
Samus in this game is super slick to control. This is the best controlling Samus yet! The abilities you get in this game and how you can intertwine them are marvelous. Slide, free-aim shoot or grapple, etc. Old favorites like getting the morphball — mid-game! — are satisfying and worthwhile. Now, the problem, and there is going to be a lot of contrasting sentences like this in this review, is that parry move. This parry move is really at odds with intelligent design of Metroid games. Parry lets you knock away charging / diving / quick-attacking enemies who flash white before attacking. Moveset-wise, there is little reason not to parry these attacks as parried hits reward more health and more safety due to a generous timing window and deal more damage than missiles on everything that isn’t a tank. But the major issue is psyche-wise: everything juts out at you to be parried is exhausting and just straight up unpleasant.
When almost all enemies are dumb like this it make your world traversal the equivalent of being on the move deluged by activated spike traps. There is no attempt at a good synergy with common ‘enemies’ and their environment. Samus isn’t going to get bumped into lava by a Zoomer here. All the energy towards something like that has been relocated entirely to the EMMI sections, which I’ll discuss later on. Unimaginatively, the ability gain is accompanied by a showcased footage of the move before you even get to try it out yourself. Moves are enjoyed in an action-oriented maneuvers than real exploration.
Exploration – Crunched space – Anti-sparsity – Collect-a-mania
Exploration in this game is forward-oriented. Run through a circuit, get the item, don’t turn bother turning back because the door (s) you came through are now blocked off, and repeat. Because Samus moves so fast I entered a similar state as in Super Mario Odyssey where it’s about an amnesiastic collect-a-mania gained through rapid item acquisition rather than a sparse remembrance of challenging acrobatics beforehand. As such exploration has a ‘block’ routinely placed to it. Getting items comes too fast to enjoy the ability before you move on to the next one. No serious point exploring for missile upgrades in fighting through levels as ammo refill ‘booths’ are plentiful and missiles are either useless in escape rooms or replenishable in boss fights.
The levels are 2.5 D and their designs are attritionally mechanical. The glorious Chozo Statues are stuffed under a relatively tame looking place gives the world a feeling that it’s crunched for space in that there probably, and are, a lot more instances of this fighting between generic and non-descript secretive and specially-raised. Only the absolutely serene water level stands out. This water sector is very enjoyable since it feels like real exploration where the newly slowed down speed is appreciated. The area transition footage is great, although minor stuttering; the teleporter ‘load screen’, iconic.
Escape – Trial and Error – Limited Success – Cinematic View
The biggest anticipation from the game trailer I had were towards the spiderly stalker enemy, the EMMI, and the new experience they could provide being advanced 2D chase sequences. The EMMIs don’t covey fearsomeness showcased at a standstill as an Amiibo toy; the contradistinction, they are excellent-looking in game both design-wise and their movement animations. EMMI encounters are all over the place in terms of fun but a constant is how they coolly ‘evolve’ making me look forward to each encounter. I was insanely frustrated by the first ‘wild’ one because the game environment places you in a way that they absolutely cannot be closely stealthed away from; you have to run, run, run. No run, no fun. So I died a lot and cursed the development team.
Low music ambiance is appropriated properly to the game and provides a deadly air and sparsity. The EMMI is essentially a moving spike pit. Starts at 2 star aggro level -> 3 star aggro level (i.e. Haunting Ground‘s final scene – brilliant in retrospect kinda way but frustrating and fun). OHKO is often lazy/cheap/exacting bad game design. The issue is visually I am looking for an access point that’s functionality is not particularly well-expressed and also I have to then know to shoot ‘random’ floor blocks all under pressure. After such a horrendous start the Phantom Cloak ability gave me renewed interest in the EMMI encounters.
Green EMMI is a much better encounter due to Samus actually having a more complex interaction than just running. Using the Phantom Cloak to march out or cling onto a spot to avoid detection is real cool. Even more so because more despairing moments may require you to drain your HP to maintain a non-detection state, which synergizes well with collecting energy tanks. Despite numerous deaths, but not at such a high frequency, to this EMMI I felt that it was a lot more fun and reasonable than frustrating. The way their chasing ability improves off the last variants inability is impressive. One big goal is to finally experienced the one try joy – I was able to beat the blue EMMI decisively (record:1/7). Purple EMMI has good stage design but poor confrontation stage space. The later abilities of the EMMI are very surprising and impressive because I thought I was gonna get bored of new color EMMIs. A major highlight is the water use in the later ‘escape rooms’. And countering them is ultra-satisfying after mass deaths sacrificial to a rare successful moment.
Boss – Contra – Cut-ins / cutscenes – Preparedness
Bosses are a mixed bag. Their visual designs are great. Their moves are pretty well-thought out in how Samus must dodge them and judge what pattern of attack may follow. The big issue is that these fights are Contra: Hard Corps levels of difficult when you come from a good 15 minutes of pushover enemies in the common areas. Sort-of like going from 3 buttons to a 6 button controller in regards to all of a sudden having to do a bunch of moves under pressure. It’s very abrupt and punishing, but in a way that undermines the smoothness of speed immersion at play in the regular moments. Instead of keeling over and dying to then resurrecting costing you 1 of your few lifes, this game bosses hit the equivalent of a life off your energy tank. 4-5 good hits = Game Over.
The next big issue is that most boss fights are miniaturized by a cutscene phase. This isn’t good as it places a ‘block’ routinely into what should be a wholly felt event and it’s far too dignified for a freak alien encounter. So Kraid despite his massive size is miniaturized by “splitting him in half” with cutscene phases. (And I don’t think health + missile items should be produced in boss fights cause it adds a fortuitous grindy-element.) Then there are finisher ‘mini cutscenes’ that last too long diminishing the blending effect that the player is responsible and shifting it to a consumer watched-over footage. Cutscenes have a quality of being ‘grabbed’ even though you initiate them.
A big highlight showing off a NEO METROID / Contra x Metroid new-type of radical heights action is the second to last boss: Experiment No. Z-57. This is a considerable jump from an okayish boss fight of Kraid to this superb boss fight where Samus uses her jumps to clear screen-devouring attacks. While a lot of the attempts to properly showcase 3D models and movement via QTE scenes were choppily executed lowering the pace in the boss fights, now it works here and it has a big rollercoaster effect. This greatly inspired an expectation of what I hoped the final boss would be of. Such hope and anticipation.
The big reveal is fun on the final boss, Raven Beak. This encounter is not a huge difficulty spike as I was expecting from reading forum posts from people who beat the game 24-48 hours from its release date, although I died enough times. His encounter is miniaturized by cut-in footage (aka cutscenes). Attacking his 1st phase (ugh, phases) is very limited relying exclusively on dodging and the parry. The extended and easily-obeyed QTE sequence gets rehashed and doesn’t cohere a synced action well of Samus as she both auto-dodging while you only control shooting. 2nd phase is cool, Contra stuff, although it lasts a bit too long. It’s the real meat of the boss fight. 3rd phase is 1st phase with additional super attacks but my playthrough I was cool enough to beat (!) this part on my first try than get a dreaded restart.
Conclusion – Summary – New Reality
The massive moment of what lies in the end for the player really stands out. Mega break from the past stuff. I’m talking transcending the feeling of the ESRB rating scale. And it really leaves a big impression on the mind of what this ‘new reality’ means. The escape sequence is pretty nuts (not as well-designed as Metroid: Other M’s). The story resolves itself — that aforementioned moment is cut down by the last 15 seconds — cutting off the idea of a new bizarre reality. . . I still have a head canon / imagination where the last 15 seconds I have cut down. And what a bizarre world Samus has become in that moment.
47 Re: Metroid Dread Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:18 am
Royta/Raeng
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> Cutscene skip
I made a seperate save that's after the cutscene and immediately quit. The cutscene always takes 2 minutes off the clock and auto-saves when complete. When I want to start a fresh-save, I just copy that savefile to a new slot and play from there.
> EMMI
Honestly can't recall. I think I did most in 2-3 tries.
> review
Good write-up! I agree the Parry probably is the biggest thing holding the game back. Perhaps if it was just solely an opener or a 'stun' move while on the move yourself, or gave added aerial mobility, it would be cool. But now it just snaps the game in half.
> Moves are enjoyed in an action-oriented maneuvers than real exploration.
I think this is a really good summery. Stuff like Ice Missiles are barely used in exploration, unlike before. Same goes for the Grapple (how many grapple points are there? Like...3?) and Storm Missile.
> exploration missiles
To add to this, since a Parry nearly fully refills missiles+health, once you have like 40 missiles (which you'll find on the way anyway) there's barely a 'need'. Also they mostly feel 'out in the open'. Upgrades in Metroid are more a little reward for a great exploration, you have to do some serious puzzles sometimes and get creative with the enviroment in the series to get a meager upgrade, the idea being "gameplay is the real reward". Here it's nearly the opposite, little exploration with little reward - making it fall flat imo.
> EMMI
To me it doesn't feel like the 'upgrade' we could've gotten. SA-X wasn't random, but she was in regular areas making the encounters sudden. Here you know EXACTLY when you're going to encounter an EMMI, which takes away the pressure. Furthermore there's no real tension since at best, once you die, it's 1 minute lost due to checkpoints. I think this could've fixed them:
- keep EMMI restricted to patroling certain rooms, but don't tell us which
- remove checkpoints
- no OHKO when grabbed, instead EMMI does something impactful like 50% HP damage while also 'disabling' some energy-tanks permanently until said EMMI is killed.
- EMMI can be 'killed' with the Omega Beam, which results in its deactivation and regaining said Energy Tanks.
- killing an EMMI that isn't holding your Energy hostage, will yield a new Energy Tank.
(Just a random suggestion, but generally the goal should be to punish with consequence, but also give a reason for fighting them)
> ugh, phases
You and me both brother.
> last 15 seconds
Those few seconds showed that they lacked the balls of the previous teams imo, I was so excited to have Samus be 'the Last Metroid', only for them to backpeddle on the whole thing.
I made a seperate save that's after the cutscene and immediately quit. The cutscene always takes 2 minutes off the clock and auto-saves when complete. When I want to start a fresh-save, I just copy that savefile to a new slot and play from there.
> EMMI
Honestly can't recall. I think I did most in 2-3 tries.
> review
Good write-up! I agree the Parry probably is the biggest thing holding the game back. Perhaps if it was just solely an opener or a 'stun' move while on the move yourself, or gave added aerial mobility, it would be cool. But now it just snaps the game in half.
> Moves are enjoyed in an action-oriented maneuvers than real exploration.
I think this is a really good summery. Stuff like Ice Missiles are barely used in exploration, unlike before. Same goes for the Grapple (how many grapple points are there? Like...3?) and Storm Missile.
> exploration missiles
To add to this, since a Parry nearly fully refills missiles+health, once you have like 40 missiles (which you'll find on the way anyway) there's barely a 'need'. Also they mostly feel 'out in the open'. Upgrades in Metroid are more a little reward for a great exploration, you have to do some serious puzzles sometimes and get creative with the enviroment in the series to get a meager upgrade, the idea being "gameplay is the real reward". Here it's nearly the opposite, little exploration with little reward - making it fall flat imo.
> EMMI
To me it doesn't feel like the 'upgrade' we could've gotten. SA-X wasn't random, but she was in regular areas making the encounters sudden. Here you know EXACTLY when you're going to encounter an EMMI, which takes away the pressure. Furthermore there's no real tension since at best, once you die, it's 1 minute lost due to checkpoints. I think this could've fixed them:
- keep EMMI restricted to patroling certain rooms, but don't tell us which
- remove checkpoints
- no OHKO when grabbed, instead EMMI does something impactful like 50% HP damage while also 'disabling' some energy-tanks permanently until said EMMI is killed.
- EMMI can be 'killed' with the Omega Beam, which results in its deactivation and regaining said Energy Tanks.
- killing an EMMI that isn't holding your Energy hostage, will yield a new Energy Tank.
(Just a random suggestion, but generally the goal should be to punish with consequence, but also give a reason for fighting them)
> ugh, phases
You and me both brother.
> last 15 seconds
Those few seconds showed that they lacked the balls of the previous teams imo, I was so excited to have Samus be 'the Last Metroid', only for them to backpeddle on the whole thing.
48 Re: Metroid Dread Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:04 am
vert1
C-Rank
This is one of the most bizarre decisions I've seen in a Nintendo game. I really do think once review standards are implemented by ultra fans there has to be a serious discussion on whether unskippable cutscenes cost an entire point off the score. I'm really stunned by this move considering the prior Metroid console release with hours of movie footage let you skip cutscenes in hard mode.Royta/Raeng wrote:> Cutscene skip
I made a seperate save that's after the cutscene and immediately quit. The cutscene always takes 2 minutes off the clock and auto-saves when complete. When I want to start a fresh-save, I just copy that savefile to a new slot and play from there.
Do you rank the ones you survived / beat easier a higher score than other failed encounters? (I think if someone could beat 3 of the later ones on the first attempt they'd score the game higher.)> EMMI
Honestly can't recall. I think I did most in 2-3 tries.
It feels like a choice of counteracting a 2D sidescroller equivalent of enemy 'hitscan' because Samus is so hard to hit otherwise she has to be locked onto in a fast penetrative strike. Like the dev had no other way to think of using the terrain to dodge or morphball or slide to duck under regular enemy attacks. I wrote 'parry' in the review section header but I gotta emphasize here that I do not like everything surrounding the parry whereas the parry, as a move itself, is a questionable inclusion. It is nice to a certain extent to have a single OP move for allowing an essence of 'skippablility' / less mental strain, but not here.Good write-up! I agree the Parry probably is the biggest thing holding the game back. Perhaps if it was just solely an opener or a 'stun' move while on the move yourself, or gave added aerial mobility, it would be cool. But now it just snaps the game in half.
I think the dev team is too enamored with Super Metroid, and I question if they would have modeled these speed-efficiency move decisions had they more appreciated Metroid [NES]. Free-aim and full side-body coverage with a parry move are perhaps too freeing. What if they made the parry produce recoil that could force Samus off a platform? This could make it not ideal to use on small platform spaces giving charging enemies a returned threat there. If the game is considered 3 scenarios or sections (exploration, EMMIs, boss) then parry could be argued by the devs as only a real effect on 33.3% (the exploration) game.
I remember trying to use them in 2-3 particular moments to jump off a flying enemy only to be spike-bounced back.Stuff like Ice Missiles are barely used in exploration, unlike before.
Would you say this imbalance decision makes the game more designed for seamless low percent runs compared to prior 2D Metroids? More 'actionized'...To add to this, since a Parry nearly fully refills missiles+health, once you have like 40 missiles (which you'll find on the way anyway) there's barely a 'need' [exploring or missiles] . . . little exploration with little reward - making it fall flat imo.
Also, consider awhile back you wrote about how having energy capsules should ideally appear from defeated enemies: do you still hold that view in regards to this game replenishing energy capsules in not only real-time combat but also real-time cutscenes.
Bullet point 1 is tricky. There'd have to be a real subtle off-feeling about entering certain rooms and whether they'd be non-descript or not. I liked that creatures regained ground / took over the once abandoned territory once an EMMI was defeated. Perhaps they could occasionally do the reverse: clear out when an EMMI is likely to appear. Lore-wise, I don't get why EMMI sections are quartered off from inhabitants. Why was that?To me it doesn't feel like the 'upgrade' we could've gotten. SA-X wasn't random, but she was in regular areas making the encounters sudden. Here you know EXACTLY when you're going to encounter an EMMI, which takes away the pressure. Furthermore there's no real tension since at best, once you die, it's 1 minute lost due to checkpoints. I think this could've fixed them:
- keep EMMI restricted to patroling certain rooms, but don't tell us which
- remove checkpoints
- no OHKO when grabbed, instead EMMI does something impactful like 50% HP damage while also 'disabling' some energy-tanks permanently until said EMMI is killed.
- EMMI can be 'killed' with the Omega Beam, which results in its deactivation and regaining said Energy Tanks.
- killing an EMMI that isn't holding your Energy hostage, will yield a new Energy Tank.
(Just a random suggestion, but generally the goal should be to punish with consequence, but also give a reason for fighting them)
Bullet point 2 is ideal. I do think from playing this game that the making of a BLAME! videogame with large amounts of exploration and OHKO enemies is much much more challenging on a fun-level / changed mindset / retrial for players, especially if you start putting in fake-outs. Other bullet points sound like something for a Metroid creature.
49 Re: Metroid Dread Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:44 am
Royta/Raeng
Admin
Veteran
Was one of the original users
Survivor
Lived through the infamous "Mentally Challenged" Souls topic
The Stinger that Stung
Passionate players that posted more than 1000 times!
Through fire and flame
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> cutscenes
It was always weird in Metroid. Super Metroid also has an unskippable opening, as does Zero Mission and I think Fusion as well. Other M is skippable, but only on replays. There was once a calculation about how much time a speedrunner has watched Ocarina of Time's unskippable opening and it was like a year or something like that.
I get trying to hide (extremely unoptimized) loading times behind them like in Max Payne 3, but until replays are becoming more 'mainstream', which I doubt with the advent of things like GamePass, we won't see it.
> EMNI rankings
I'd rank the first one as most frustrating, since the mechanics are still 'new' and you're unsure what the game expects from you. How the doors work. How evasion works etc. As a result I think the middle EMNI is the best, i.e the Speed Booster variant. At that point you're experienced enough to know how to play these scenarios, he's unique enough to give you a challenge but doesn't stack the deck against you.
> the parry
The key element you want to push here I'd say is mobility. Metroid is a game of you walking around a lot, and generally speaking you want to keep moving and not have enemies slow you down while still having them be an interesting foe to fight. In that sense having a mobile-parry is a great idea. The execution leaves a lot to be desired i.e. that a lot of enemies require you to standstill and wait for the flash and that its a straight up OHKO.
> ice missile
There's a single missile tank where you can use it. It's above the first EMNI. If you backtrack you can use an Ice Missile on an enemy there and jump on him. He doesn't bounce you off iirc, or he does but I remember using him to get that tank (later-on you can just use the space jump).
> too enamoured by Super
Perhaps, but also misunderstanding what made it great. I make the reference a lot, but this is a classic example of putting a bonfire in a game and calling it a Soulslike - putting random elements from that game in doesn't make it like that game. Same with RE8 not being RE4 due to having the same menu.
I do think that it might be best in this case to really just let go and make their own take on Metroid. Right now it's still a bit of a mishmash of visions. People expect them to make A, they want to make B, so they make C.
To add to this, Metroid Dread is now a Switch game, which means it has a whole new audience. It is probably going to be the best selling in the franchise, has the the biggest word of mouth and if you're a designer that goes online, you'd be hard pressed to find any critique on the game except from terrible gamers that get stuck in the first room.
You can see this too when you read online interactions, most are enamoured by Dread's speed and ease of guidance, and feel Super Metroid is dated and slow. So there's a clear route 'general' people want Metroid to take. Not sure they should go that route though.
> parry in low% runs
Not sure. On low% runs, you're more likely to play safe and just avoid all fights except bosses. And during bosses parry has a very limited use ironically.
> energy recharge in cutscenes
Not sure what you mean by this.
> EMNI areas
I think regarding bulletpoint-1, you need but look to Resident Evil 3 (the original). Nemesis was limited to but a few rooms, but you never knew which despite him being super scripted, which made him very engaging despite being controlled.
Regarding the lore, no clue why EMNI makes his own ecosystem.
It was always weird in Metroid. Super Metroid also has an unskippable opening, as does Zero Mission and I think Fusion as well. Other M is skippable, but only on replays. There was once a calculation about how much time a speedrunner has watched Ocarina of Time's unskippable opening and it was like a year or something like that.
I get trying to hide (extremely unoptimized) loading times behind them like in Max Payne 3, but until replays are becoming more 'mainstream', which I doubt with the advent of things like GamePass, we won't see it.
> EMNI rankings
I'd rank the first one as most frustrating, since the mechanics are still 'new' and you're unsure what the game expects from you. How the doors work. How evasion works etc. As a result I think the middle EMNI is the best, i.e the Speed Booster variant. At that point you're experienced enough to know how to play these scenarios, he's unique enough to give you a challenge but doesn't stack the deck against you.
> the parry
The key element you want to push here I'd say is mobility. Metroid is a game of you walking around a lot, and generally speaking you want to keep moving and not have enemies slow you down while still having them be an interesting foe to fight. In that sense having a mobile-parry is a great idea. The execution leaves a lot to be desired i.e. that a lot of enemies require you to standstill and wait for the flash and that its a straight up OHKO.
> ice missile
There's a single missile tank where you can use it. It's above the first EMNI. If you backtrack you can use an Ice Missile on an enemy there and jump on him. He doesn't bounce you off iirc, or he does but I remember using him to get that tank (later-on you can just use the space jump).
> too enamoured by Super
Perhaps, but also misunderstanding what made it great. I make the reference a lot, but this is a classic example of putting a bonfire in a game and calling it a Soulslike - putting random elements from that game in doesn't make it like that game. Same with RE8 not being RE4 due to having the same menu.
I do think that it might be best in this case to really just let go and make their own take on Metroid. Right now it's still a bit of a mishmash of visions. People expect them to make A, they want to make B, so they make C.
To add to this, Metroid Dread is now a Switch game, which means it has a whole new audience. It is probably going to be the best selling in the franchise, has the the biggest word of mouth and if you're a designer that goes online, you'd be hard pressed to find any critique on the game except from terrible gamers that get stuck in the first room.
You can see this too when you read online interactions, most are enamoured by Dread's speed and ease of guidance, and feel Super Metroid is dated and slow. So there's a clear route 'general' people want Metroid to take. Not sure they should go that route though.
> parry in low% runs
Not sure. On low% runs, you're more likely to play safe and just avoid all fights except bosses. And during bosses parry has a very limited use ironically.
> energy recharge in cutscenes
Not sure what you mean by this.
> EMNI areas
I think regarding bulletpoint-1, you need but look to Resident Evil 3 (the original). Nemesis was limited to but a few rooms, but you never knew which despite him being super scripted, which made him very engaging despite being controlled.
Regarding the lore, no clue why EMNI makes his own ecosystem.
50 Re: Metroid Dread Tue Dec 14, 2021 2:41 am
vert1
C-Rank
I haven't looked at the shot-firing exploit, but I am guessing it might would deal faster damage than parrying to trigger a QTE sequence in boss fights. Yes?
The energy recharge is how the energy capsules will fly towards Samus in the phase cutscenes of the Raven Beak fight, for example.
RE3 has been a game I keep hearing get mentioned quite a bit from people to check out. I really don't know when I'd get around to doing that. Did you play the mode in REmake where there is a zombie strapped with explosives that chases you? I think that may be a closer similarity to the EMMI given that both can't be shot* (I haven't played that mode but read about it and it seems like a good substitute pick for me right now given that I own REmake and have a normal clear file, then I need to clear the game with Chris to unlock it).
*As in it is not advised or to the player's advantage while under normal circumstances to shoot.
The energy recharge is how the energy capsules will fly towards Samus in the phase cutscenes of the Raven Beak fight, for example.
RE3 has been a game I keep hearing get mentioned quite a bit from people to check out. I really don't know when I'd get around to doing that. Did you play the mode in REmake where there is a zombie strapped with explosives that chases you? I think that may be a closer similarity to the EMMI given that both can't be shot* (I haven't played that mode but read about it and it seems like a good substitute pick for me right now given that I own REmake and have a normal clear file, then I need to clear the game with Chris to unlock it).
*As in it is not advised or to the player's advantage while under normal circumstances to shoot.
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