Welcome new members (introduction topic)

Nice to see you! Good luck with the Master Ninja run!

Curious to hear the 'love and hate' relationship with DMC3! There's a lot of elements I can imagine players disliking about the game, curious what yours are :)

AeternalSolitude wrote:

Royta/Raeng wrote:What game in the genre has so far pulled you in the most?

Definitely DMC4! Believe it or not I kind of have a love hate relationship with DMC3. While I understand DMC3 is overall a better game, DMC4 is just where it really clicked for me. The combat is much more open and varied with Nero being really fun and a great addition I feel. Credo might also be my favorite boss in any game ever!

I feel the exact same way and Credo is absolutely top tier.


>There's a lot of elements I can imagine players disliking about the game

Objectively bad parts of 3-
Failing bad platforming sections and falling into a locked pit of enemies.
The reused jester fights on SE
Some really bad camera angles at times. 4 really improved on this and was never a issue imo.
You don't get Nevan til like half way through the game, and it is the best weapon in the series

hedfone wrote:

AeternalSolitude wrote:

Royta/Raeng wrote:What game in the genre has so far pulled you in the most?

Definitely DMC4! Believe it or not I kind of have a love hate relationship with DMC3. While I understand DMC3 is overall a better game, DMC4 is just where it really clicked for me. The combat is much more open and varied with Nero being really fun and a great addition I feel. Credo might also be my favorite boss in any game ever!

I feel the exact same way and Credo is absolutely top tier.


>There's a lot of elements I can imagine players disliking about the game

Objectively bad parts of 3-
Failing bad platforming sections and falling into a locked pit of enemies.
The reused jester fights on SE
Some really bad camera angles at times. 4 really improved on this and was never a issue imo.
You don't get Nevan til like half way through the game, and it is the best weapon in the series

I'd like to add that the later levels can be quite a drag, the blood-birds are a weird enemy to have (gun only weakness), Arkham might be contender for the absolute worst bossfight in human history and such. I do feel the camera was mostly fine, I honestly prefer static cameras to controlable ones. DMC4's camera was really good though I must say. Felt V's was weaker again.

Yeah, part of it is I just don't feel the game is responsive enough for the type of play required in it. This is most noticeable in the parts of combos that require mashing, they're pretty inconsistent at best.

I dislike many of the enemies, and just don't think some of them are very fun to fight, especially on higher difficulties. For example, Hell Vanguards (big scythe guys) are fun on easier modes, but on DMD they just spam constant teleporting attacks which makes being aggressive impossible if your using any style other then RG. Chess pieces are cool for a bit, but are overused. And I wanted to turn off the game every time I saw the white angel guys, which admittedly isn't very often.
I don't understand why the camera doesn't track Vergil in his fights when it tracks just fine for Geryon. And yeah, Arkham is actually my least favorite boss in any game ever.
Not a relevant complaint now with the switch version, but at the time I didn't like how you couldn't change styles or weapons in the pause menu when you could in DMC1 (well, weapons anyway).

In the end, it's just a lot of little complaints that drag the game down for me. But I certainly understand why people hold it in high regard. It was a revolutionary action game and is still pretty good today. I just for whatever reason found these little problems pretty taxing over time.

Anyway, long obnoxious rant over. Sorry about that.

Royta/Raeng wrote: I honestly prefer static cameras to controlable ones

I completely agree with this sentiment! It's one of the big reasons I'm looking forward to playing the Wonderful 101 remaster. I think the static camera in DMC was fine when it ditched the horror movie dutch angles.

Interesting! The mash-attacks are weird, they have a very high input requirement, making some nearly impossible to pull of on Turbo Mode iirc. I know there's one with Agni and Rudra that basically requires you to combine the inputs within other attacks otherwise you'll never get it to work.
In some respects I do kind of like it, as it physically drains you haha.

> enemies
Personally they are fine, but they fall a bit in between DMC1 and 4 for me. DMC1 has the best enemies in the series if not genre, and 4's are generally canon-fodder for the most part. 3 has a lot of foes that work better with specific setups, like those Angels. They aren't horrible, but could've been done better. I do enjoy how agressive they are on DMD. Really miss that currently in the series.

> weapon switching
It's a bit of both for me. I think the kit-based system is fantastic, as it allows for strategizing and also excuses some of the more overpowered options or some weapons having similar moves, since you never know which one you'll take with you. On the otherhand, a system like that fits far better in something like Ninja Gaiden I'd say.

> rant
No worries man, we're all open for talking here :)

Royta/Raeng wrote:I do enjoy how agressive they are on DMD. Really miss that currently in the series.

This is something I miss a bit. While DMC V might be my favorite in the series (sue me), that game has an issue of enemies feeling like they're kinda just going through cycles. They can still be dangerous, but they don't really react to what your doing, they don't really bite back. You know what I mean? They're also really slow sometimes.

I think that's in part due to the enemies having to work for three different characters, so their AI is more generic designed. Same with their movesets. They feel very lacking and slow. Perhaps due to V being slower?

Welcome Solitude and good luck with your Master ninja run!

Really cool avatar btw Tai. What's it from?

Thanks!It's a drawing of my character from Monter Hunter Generations Ultimate (first MH where they added transmog) I commisioned to an artist on Twitter: https://twitter.com/_Gabrielfer

Hi new member here. Raeng's Stinger-magazine came to my knowledge from Gamefaqs a while ago (sadly it was about he receiveing death threat because of one of his articles). Finally took the time to register for the forum. Just want to look for quality discussions on games and action games in here :)

Welcome Invisigoth! What's your username on Gamefaqs? Always cool to see people make the jump, hope you have a good time here! Feel free to bring old topics back to life or kickstart a talk about your action-games of choice.

Which games are you playing these days? I see you rocking a Viewtiful Joe styled DMC avatar, sweet!

Royta/Raeng wrote:Welcome Invisigoth! What's your username on Gamefaqs? Always cool to see people make the jump, hope you have a good time here! Feel free to bring old topics back to life or kickstart a talk about your action-games of choice.

Which games are you playing these days? I see you rocking a Viewtiful Joe styled DMC avatar, sweet!

Still Invisigoth lol. Just done Shenmue 3 that game has been a pain in the ass once I decided to go for Platinum. Just have to blame my OCD sometimes. After that I'm jumping back into Wonderful 101

Didn't hear a lot of positive things about Shenmue 3 sadly, how was the experience for you?

I enjoyed it for what it was going for. I think I was also giving it a pass consider it was developed with a tiny budget (I heard it was only 20 mil). With that budget I was rather impressed how well they built the Niaowu map, but sadly the story they wrote didn't really live up to fully utilizing those areas. The script and story are definitely weak. If Yu Suzuk said Shenmue story is less than half complete by the end of Shenmue 3 I think he should really consider restructuring the whole story and just start to work out scenarios for gameplay first. There was really a lot of waste potential with those two areas they built.

Combats are...if you are looking at it as a Shenmue series then I think it's good. Really don't expect it to be modern days combat system. The only thing I don't like is that in the old games when they teach you new moves, your mentors will say something like "dodge then grab" or "step forward and punch twice" and leave it up to you to figure out (they weren't hard anyways). Shenmue 3 just straight up give you the button input for each moves which I feel it lose a bit of the martial arts touch back in the days. I also don't understand how they still keep Ryo movements clunky (not the combat one but just how you normally walk around the village or city). This shouldn't have to do with budget but more with programing, and since they were already using Unreal 4 I had no idea why they couldn't get that right.

Not that I'm a long time Shenmue fan but I do have a soft spot for it since I did play the first Shenmue and half of Shenmue 2 back in Dreamcast day. I'm also into martial arts so I always appreciate the details and emphasis of martial arts put by Suzuki in there. It was really tailored and targeted towards long term Shenmue fans (I know a lot of them complained about Shenmue 3 too). If it's someone who had never touched the franchise before I probably won't recommend it. Unless you have really high tolerance and open minded with whatever games. With that said I do wish there will be a Shenmue 4 with significant improvement.

Hi! Just joined and am excited to find this place. Action games have been a lifelong obsession and I'm always on the hunt for the next gem.

Some of my favorite flavors:
-Treasure games - Faves are Gunstar Heroes, Sin & Punishment, Astro Boy, Bangai-O series, and Alien Soldier. I like Radiant Silvergun more than Ikaruga. Ikaruga seems to be very incompatible with my brain. ^^;
-Shinobi III, Ninja Gaiden (3D series), MGR, and games with "action ninjas" in general.
-Devil May Cry series, including the reboot, excluding DMC2
-Interesting sleepers--Blood Will Tell, Bujingai, Tsukiyo ni Saraba, Silent Bomber, Bulk Slash, Ranger X
-Castlevania: Bloodlines over Castlevania IV | Contra: Hard Corps over Contra III | Streets of Rage 3 over Streets of Rage 2 (Bare Knuckle 3 even better). But of course I like all of the above. I'm not a monster.
-Hyper Light Drifter is my favorite indie, then maybe Furi

Oh yeah I can help decipher Japanese text if the need should ever arise.

Thanks for having me!

Welcome Lacquerware, good to see you here  too :) Great to see a Treasure fan! Those games are absolutely fantastic. I will admit I never got into them as much as I should but they are just pure game, love every second of those titles.

What are you playing currently :)?

Lacquerware wrote:
-Devil May Cry series, including the reboot, excluding DMC2

-Castlevania: Bloodlines over Castlevania IV | Contra: Hard Corps over Contra III | Streets of Rage 3 over Streets of Rage 2 (Bare Knuckle 3 even better). But of course I like all of the above. I'm not a monster.

Oh yeah I can help decipher Japanese text if the need should ever arise.

Thanks for having me!

For that alone you get under my shirt and over the bra. I'm not a slut. You are qualified.

Lacquerware wrote:
-Interesting sleepers--Blood Will Tell, Bujingai, Tsukiyo ni Saraba, Silent Bomber, Bulk Slash, Ranger X

Oooooh, I'm a sucker for obscure games people haven't heard of. You've just reminded me that I have an unplayed Silent Bomber sat on my shelf. I hadn't heard of Bulk Slash or Ranger X before, I'll be sure to look them up!

Thanks for the greetings, everyone. :)

Royta/Raeng wrote:
What are you playing currently :)?

I finally got a gaming PC (my first ever), which has also allowed me to finally start streaming, and that's REALLY helped me plow through my bottomless and ancient backlog. Since July I've played through a bunch of stuff, but over the last week I've been alternating between Gungrave: Overdose (just cleared it last night) and Nightshade.

Also started up Hollow Knight but I'm not big on the Souls elements (or Soulsborne in general, although I LOVE Sekiro and Nioh). Might switch gears in the next few days and play something more modern.

Zenyn wrote:

For that alone you get under my shirt and over the bra. I'm not a slut. You are qualified.

Hahaha sentiment appreciated! I think action mechanics people tend to lean toward those same preferences, while the broader popularity of Castlevania IV, SoR2, etc. tends to be driven by nostalgia.

Gregorinho wrote:
Oooooh, I'm a sucker for obscure games people haven't heard of. You've just reminded me that I have an unplayed Silent Bomber sat on my shelf. I hadn't heard of Bulk Slash or Ranger X before, I'll be sure to look them up!

Bulk Slash and Ranger X would actually make a pretty good double feature. Both feature a mech that can transform on the fly between a ground mode and a flying mode, with interesting level variety centered around taking out scattered targets.

Ranger X makes very interesting use of the six-button controller and has a mechanic where you use sunlight to recharge your weapons.

Bulk Slash has a system where you collect navigators, who give you real-time directions and each have distinct kooky personalities. It's also really colorful and upbeat, and easily one of the best true 3D Saturn games.

Lacquerware wrote:and Nightshade.

SEGA Kunoichi? Right on! Hard to find folks who wouldn't dismiss it. Giving it some spins myself atm. Even digging secondary cutscene character creeps like Onibi, Shinobi of Fire. There's a flavour with this game. I'm getting Virtua Fighter vibes from the chara design for some reason.

Zenyn wrote:

Lacquerware wrote:and Nightshade.

SEGA Kunoichi? Right on! Hard to find folks who wouldn't dismiss it. Giving it some spins myself atm. Even digging secondary cutscene character creeps like Onibi, Shinobi of Fire. There's a flavour with this game. I'm getting Virtua Fighter vibes from the chara design for some reason.

It's really a nice follow-up to Shinobi, with a handful of VERY VERY ROUGH spots. I'm stuck at one now (speedboat auto-scrolling sequence) but hoping to clear it on tonight's stream (9pm EDT, twitch.tv/Lacquerware for the curious!) Overall though it feels like a refinement of the previous game. That stealth bomber sequence through the sunset cityscape is a whole aesthetic unto itself.

It's a good game. I wouldn't call it better or worse than Shinobi. It's different.

Also interested in Nightshade i.e. Kunoichi. I admit that I never got into the game as much as I'd hoped. In a sense it is Shinobi but better and bolder but...I don't know. The opening stage absolutely blew me away originally, on a stealthbomber, a cool boss, turrets, kicking back missiles - it's a vast departure from a dull purple city with infected tanks.

But for some reason...I just. Can't. Get. Into it. Maybe it's the artstyle in the later levels or the lowered difficulty, maybe because it plays more arcadey? I haven't the slightest. Might be worth to give it another go at some point.

> soulsborne
Good mechanics generally but I feel many designers focus too much on its bad parts as 'that's what makes it good' i.e. pattern recognition, the long trek back to a boss, bad directions etc.

> Castlevania IV
> nostalgia
Ho ho ho! Stop right there!
I've seen this sentiment a few times before on other sites too, but as someone who got into Castlevania really late, I also prefer IV. It is basically a rehash of 1 I feel, but super sized. It isn't as broken in some parts, has the best whip controls imo, fantastic sound, music and sprite-work - I really feel it's a classic. Bloodlines was great too but I prefer IV.

> Shinobi / Kunoichi
I should really give these a go sometime. I tried to emulate Shinobi a while ago but it was a little buggy so I didn't stick with it - maybe if I play around with the settings I can get it sorted. The character designs of both protagonists are very cool, and the tate system seems fun too.

> Soulsborne
Must. Resist. Ranting...

I've talked about Soulsborne games in a few posts on here and my opinion hasn't changed since the last one. I have to concede that they're not bad - they're just not for me. Like Roy mentioned, I just can't stomach the long trek back to the boss every time I fail. Can't help but get the feeling the devs want to punish me, rather than want me to learn the game. I generally really don't like stamina gauges in my action games either, but that's just a matter of personal preference. Having said that, I really like the aesthetic of Sekiro and I'd at least like to give that game a shot sometime.

The Tate system really is fantastic, if you can give either or both games a go for sure.

> soulsborne
There's a very good video about the series by Matthew that showcases what's wrong with the series currently, at least in my book. Namely how the games seem to focus more on its combat. A worthwhile watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np5PdpsfINA

I think Stamina, like every other mechanic, can be good if done right and befitting of said game. Evil Within had a pretty decent stamina mechanic for example. Same with Nioh (to an extent).

I wonder how a Soulsgame would be with checkpoints. Though at that point it would slowly just become a regular action-game.

> sekiro
Also pretty good gameplay, especially post-patch. I recommend it.

Gregorinho wrote: Can't help but get the feeling the devs want to punish me, rather than want me to learn the game.

This is the core of it for me. Impeding my ability to practice the challenge at hand actually actively prevents me from "gitting gud." I often see "punishment" conflated with "challenge" or "difficulty" but imo they're separate concepts. I guess punishment technically contributes to difficulty in the psychological sense that it's harder to maintain the will to keep attempting something if lots of road blocks are thrown in your way. But like, you could achieve that same effect by making me run laps around the house every time I die in the game, or breaking one of my fingers. It doesn't feel like action game design to me.

In the case of Dark Souls, I think it's supposed to contribute to an overall feeling of hopelessness, like you're this lonely soul wandering through purgatory. So they want you to feel miserable. My argument is, I can do that without the video game.

A big reason I loved Sekiro so much is that it dispenses with most of the punishment of From's other recent games and actually lets you focus on the challenge at hand. I wrote about it, if anyone's interested.

>Nightshade
Having spent a lot of time with it the last couple weeks, I definitely wouldn't say the difficulty is lower than Shinobi's. Granted I haven't played Shinobi in many years, but Nightshade is MURDERING me. It starts more gently for sure, and you have a couple more tools, but later on it's like prolonged tightrope walking. I don't remember Shinobi ever being close to this hard, even on Hard Mode (well, maybe the final boss).

Anyway sorry, I feel like I'm abusing the "introduce yourself" thread at this point. ^^;

No by all means!

Talking about Souls is always interesting because they are great games in essence but have seemingly forgotten a lot about what makes them good. The idea that you can lose quite a lot of progress upon death for instance worked really well originally as a method of fear, as well as the tension that you'd lose your sole currency. But the levels seemed made with this in mind and also constructed smartly. There were plenty of shortcuts but they also tended to be smartly done i.e. immersive like two closed gates of a castle, which slowly turned into a a "doesn't open from this side" door or fence in later games.

It also only works the first few times, as you might redo fights on your way, but eventually you'll just end up running to the boss. In essence you're doing corpse runs a-la World of Warcraft, which is terrible.

I really wish FromSoftware would stop making these games and make a horror game. I think with their knowledge of world building and level design they could make a killer horror title.

I'll take a look at your blog at a later point :) Saved it.

Royta/Raeng wrote:
> Castlevania IV
> nostalgia
Ho ho ho! Stop right there!

May I?
I am amazed on what lenghts players go to rationalize the content of this game.

Another opinion:

Royta/Raeng wrote:I've seen this sentiment a few times before on other sites too, but as someone who got into Castlevania really late, I also prefer IV.

Fair enough.

Royta/Raeng wrote:It is basically a rehash of 1 I feel, but super sized.

Disagree here. Hard. I don't want to bore you with a lenghty argument, so I keep it short 'n sweet.
To me, it's not super-sized. Just super-fluffed. Exept for the last third it has no bite. Up to that all plays same-same. A super-sized intro stage. I don't think highly of Castlevania 3, but at least for that game they had the decency to implement paths to choose from. The up and down ways. Keep the junk at the bottom. In Super 4 they just lined it all up on a string, which makes it painfully mediocre.

Royta/Raeng wrote:It isn't as broken in some parts, has the best whip controls imo,

Thank you for putting this in one sentence. I think the 8-way whip breaks the action of the game. Whip every way you want. It certainly makes the sub-weapons seem redundant and out of place. I surmise that's the key to the sympathy many hold for it at all. If one can stand the breaker and doesn't find it offensive, chances are the rest will be accepted as well.

Royta/Raeng wrote:fantastic sound, music and sprite-work - I really feel it's a classic.

A launch title. That means hasted and unpolished. See the one fight final boss for reference. Hence the whip. Time's up, folks. They figured to keep it in.
Okay then. It's also the beginning of the casual hour, where everyone gets to be a winner.

In my restless dreams I see that castle. Castlevania. And I imagine how it would play if the action was taut...
No, I don't, because I don't have to imagine. That game is Castlevania: Bloodlines.

Royta/Raeng wrote:Bloodlines was great too but I prefer IV.

Again, fair enough.

> paths
I prefer my action-platformers more lineair, but I can understand some might find such a feature missing here. Personally didn't miss it at all.

> don't want to bore with a lengthy argument
Go big or go home Zenyn. Either make an argument or don't. Because now it's more a chopped up "I disagree" without really any insight into why.

> 8-way whip
Some subs weren't balanced with it i.e. the Axe I'll give it that, but let's not pretend sub-weapon balancing was ever a thing in the series. You still had ample reason to use others though (range). Considering how much the games reward you for doing single-sub runs thanks to its double-and triple shot system I think it's neat that they offered a more versatile whip.
The Tarzan swings were cute too if underused.

> casual hour
It is the easiest of the bunch for sure, the only one where I never saw Game Over. But wouldn't call it 'casual hour'. We're not talking 9th generation games here.

The game still has ample OHKO sections, tricky platforming bits and brutal bosses later-on. Punishment for death is also pretty high due to losing upgrades iirc.

> hasted and unpolished
Empty words.
Unpolished how? Hasted how? The game was in development for two years which was fairly lengthy for a game in the late 80's. Soundtrack is excellent. Sprite work is excellent with lots of little details. Great mood. Only thing that felt tacked on was the Mode7 area.

> launch title
A launch title doesn't launch a full 11 months after the system's launch Zenyn
Castlevania IV launched October 1991 while the SNES launched November 1990.

>FromSoft horror

They did. Kuon. You're a bad person for not having played it yet.

When I typed that I knew you were going to say that haha. You know I mean with their current team and budgets.

> bad person for not having played a game I like

How's that NGII run going btw?

Royta/Raeng wrote:
Go big or go home Zenyn. Either make an argument or don't. Because now it's more a chopped up "I disagree" without really any insight into why.

You want a nerd fight? I rather not. Where I am at it's a beautiful day.

Royta/Raeng wrote:> hasted and unpolished
Empty words.

"As empty as your soul!" So I'm the monster here, I don't belong in this world...
You wound me, Sir Belmont

Royta/Raeng wrote:Unpolished how? Hasted how? The game was in development for two years which was fairly lengthy for a game in the late 80's. Soundtrack is excellent. Sprite work is excellent with lots of little details. Great mood. Only thing that felt tacked on was the Mode7 area.

In general direction. It's obvious they couldn't focus how to proceed from C3, just taking inspiration from it. Check this making of. Following the 'Super' moniker, it's just lenghty. I call it bloated. And I never implied it wasn't anything but moody and very musical.

Royta/Raeng wrote:> launch title
A launch title doesn't launch a full 11 months after the system's launch Zenyn
Castlevania IV launched October 1991 while the SNES launched November 1990.

O ye of smug wikipedia wisdom. You think home country alone. But the system wasn't introduced in foreign markets years later. Which made SC4 available when the system launched. For the world market. Only 2 months after in Northern America launch. Don't tell me that is not relevant. You're European. It got released for PAL territories in '92, same year as Castlevania 3. Which JP release was in '89. Gimme some latency here.

I just don't see the point in making saying you have arguments and then refuse to share them haha, that's all. I'm all up for learning why people feel Castlevania IV is overrated. Nerd fights are for Gamefaqs, here we have philisophical debates with fine wine and a selection of cheeses as side.

> empty as your soul
What is a man?

> making off video
Oh, that looks sweet. Going to add that to my watchlist, cheers for sharing that one.

> launch title
So the only thing that could've been rushed then was the translation? Joke aside, I doubt it. It's fair speculation but I doubt it. If that'd influenced it, it would've been a pure launch title I feel or at the very least launched on or near Halloween as a goal. Not wide 3 months off the mark.

> wikipedia wisdom
Would it have matter had I used my actual copies as reference?

Royta/Raeng wrote:What is a man?

A miserable little pile of secrets! But enough talk! Have at you!
(nerd fight commences)

Royta/Raeng wrote:> making of video
Oh, that looks sweet. Going to add that to my watchlist, cheers for sharing that one.

You're welcome. At least you got that out of it by indulging me. Have fun.

Royta/Raeng wrote:> launch title
So the only thing that could've been rushed then was the translation? Joke aside, I doubt it. It's fair speculation but I doubt it. If that'd influenced it, it would've been a pure launch title I feel or at the very least launched on or near Halloween as a goal. Not wide 3 months off the mark.

Remember, there were alterations to be made for Nintendo of America. Blood, nudity, religious references. Figuring that out takes up recources.

Royta/Raeng wrote:> wikipedia wisdom
Would it have matter had I used my actual copies as reference?

Only if they are in actual mint condition ! No loose carts, man.

Oh dang, didn't mean to start an argument!

Honestly I hadn't played Castlvania IV until I was 26 and I thought it was one of the more enjoyable games in the series, largely because of its relatively low difficulty. I almost think IV versus Bloodlines is an unfair comparison since it was a launch game versus a fairly late Genesis game, and as we all know, late Genesis games are an entirely different beast than early Genesis games. To me it's still a close call but Bloodlines gets points for being more vibrant and visually arresting, plus I prefer the sound and music and am into Eric Lecarde in general.

>Demon's/Dark Soulsborne
Royta/Raeng, I watched the video you shared. I tapped out midway through Dark Souls 1 so I had to take the narrator at his word for much of it, but I've long suspected Demon's Souls was the best one. That said, I was never really on board with all the punishment--it felt like a regression into the poor quality-of-life design that was the norm for most of gaming's history, mainly as a holdover from quarter-munching arcade design. It annoys me how so many people treat it like this novel innovation instead of what it is--pure malevolence!

But at least Demon's Souls partitioned its hellish areas into numbered silos so you knew when you were swinging above your weight. The thing that made me bounce off Dark Souls was I wandered into an area I wasn't supposed to attempt yet and everything up to then had been so hard that I found it impossible to discern between viable and unviable.

I do have to disagree with the narrator re: Micolash in Bloodborne. That was absolutely my least favorite part of the game and reason I shelved it for over a year. (I wrote about this in the piece I linked earlier.) I appreciate his sentiment about bosses that feel more like immersive, puzzle-like setpieces, but Micolash ain't it.

First of all, the trek back to him is excruciating. You have to call and wait for an elevator, ride the elevator, cross a bridge, fight a few moderately dangerous enemies, and then chase Micolash around--more trekking!--through a labyrinth full of samey corridors and lined with more dangerous enemies. When you finally corner Micolash and the fight actually begins, there's no real deduction element--in fact he's probably the least interesting fight in the game, where the winning strategy boils down to baiting the same one attack over and over, dodging it, and countering. Meanwhile he can still kill you if he lands about two lucky hits, and you have to do it alllllll ooooooverrrr agaaainnn.

If you make it to the second phase of the fight, you have to CHASE HIM AGAIN, through an even more labyrinthine and dangerous section that even has sudden pitfalls, and when you finally find him, the only way to engage him is to drop down on him from a hole in the floor, NECESSARILY INCURRING FALL DAMAGE. So if you were just barely holding on, you might not even get to initiate the second phase.

Between that and straight action fights where you're just learning attack patterns, I'd gladly take the latter. In fact Sekiro's boss fights are mostly that and Sekiro's my fave of the Souls-likes by a mile.


In other news, I finished Nightshade last night. Hard game! Rough in some spots (camera and collision stuff in particular), but really special to be sure.

Oh no. You haven't done anything wrong. It's on me entirely. Roy gets just agitated by my, uh, elusiveness concerning having a formal argument. I didn't mean to, but there you have it. There's no manual with me. And no Easy mode. Or Normal.

Cool stuff that you finished Kunoichi. I was surprised to learn there is actually a substancial reward for clearing Easy. Who would have thought there's no shame in that? I have yet to clear Hard mode. I started with another character then Hibana, and on one point thought it would be to my disadvantage proceeding. So I restarted and got some attitude to clear each stage without any continue... You can see where this leads to.

Zenyn wrote:
Cool stuff that you finished Kunoichi. I was surprised to learn there is actually a substancial reward for clearing Easy. Who would have thought there's no shame in that? I have yet to clear Hard mode. I started with another character then Hibana, and on one point thought it would be to my disadvantage proceeding. So I restarted and got some attitude to clear each stage without any continue... You can see where this leads to.

Oh that's cool about Easy mode! I just looked up all the unlockables. I was surprised that I unlocked Hotsuma just for clearing on Normal mode, in fact, but apparently that only happens if you have a cleared Shinobi file on your memory card. Sure glad I was using the right card!

And apparently Musashi is back! I cleared Shinobi on Hard for Musashi and that's still among the hardest things I've ever accomplished in a game. (You all may have gathered by now that my love of hard games doesn't mean I'm any good at them.) Apparently you have to "beat 88 stages" to unlock Musashi in Nightshade--I guess that means repeating the same stages over and over? Tbh I'd rather do that than attempt Hard mode. ^^;

>How's that NGII run going btw?

Shut up.

>How's that NGII run going btw?

It's going as well as your CL and Knack 2 runs lol

Lacquerware wrote: Apparently you have to "beat 88 stages" to unlock Musashi in Nightshade--I guess that means repeating the same stages over and over? Tbh I'd rather do that than attempt Hard mode. ^^;

Don't burn yourself out with mindlessy repeating Stage 1. I think that would lead to early fatigue. Maybe you clear Easy first. That's 13 Stages to score and yields Hisui, Shinobi of Water (who's "such a babe"). Survival Mode (under New Game) is fun, too, but I don't think it moves the counter.

hedfone wrote:>How's that NGII run going btw?

It's going as well as your CL and Knack 2 runs lol

At least I played ZoE2 for him and put in the work  
I just want to see that work returned in equal favour  

(dear god these emojis are terrible, I feel like a teenager again).

> agitated
No harm done in my eyes, just a friendly bar brawl amongst mates.

> C IV changes
They changed that much for a USA release? Takes me by surprise, usually it's Germany and Australia to suffer like that.

> Royta/raeng
Either or is fine, no need to use both. I mostly use Raeng but sometimes people still know me from that other moniker so I just put that one here as well just in case :)

> demon's souls
Personally, the best one is the first one you play, as its concepts are still fresh at that point. The games re-use a lot of the same tricks over and over again so the first time you play it it is fantastic, but the further you get a long the more the tricks become too familiar i.e. the unreliable NPC, enemies around corners, second phase bosses, boulders, arrow traps, enemies that appear behind you etc.

Royta/Raeng wrote: > C IV changes
They changed that much for a USA release? Takes me by surprise, usually it's Germany and Australia to suffer like that.

It's fairly documented. Mostly around the words NoA censure politics. You can find details to the changes here. You might guffaw now, but them were 'em then. Personally, I would miss the blood and tasteful nude, but cutting out the crosses is no issue with me.

Zenyn wrote: Maybe you clear Easy first. That's 13 Stages to score and yields Hisui, Shinobi of Water (who's "such a babe").

Already done! Unlockable characters are just about the best unlockable an action game can offer imo, so I couldn't resist when I learned you get one just for Easy mode. It's fun to do a victory lap after beating a hard game anyway. Easy mode sure is a lot easier than Normal!

Hello, HotPocketHPE here. I came across the magazine randomly and was very impressed by the depth of the articles. Action games in general seem to be not well-understood by the general public and it's refreshing to see deep dives into the genre.

My experience in the genre is probably much less than many people here, although I do have a few games under my belt at this point. I have the most playtime by far in the Monster Hunter series. I've played almost every MH game at this point and the series has a lot of unique aspects that no other game really captures. (except the MH clones I guess, I've only played Dauntless of those and I was not impressed) MH has always had a lot of problems, but I deeply love it nonetheless.

As for other action games, I've played a few, although most I haven't dug as deeply into as MH.

• DMC 1, 3, 4 and 5, and I've beaten DMC3 on DMD
  
• Bayo 1, which I really need to revisit at some point on the higher difficulties. The QTEs and minigames are pretty rough though
  
• MGR, been a while since I've played this
  
• All the FromSoft souls-style games, although these days I can't really stand the Dark Souls combat for very long. Best is probably Bloodborne.
  
• Just got Ninja Gaiden Black, really looking forward to digging into this game!
  

Some of my other favorite genres/series are:

• Classic FPS games like Doom 1/2 and Blood. This genre has seen an exciting reclamation and revival recently, with both the high budget games of Doom 2016/Eternal and a torrent of indie games arriving on the scene. In particular, Doom Eternal and Ultrakill seem to be fusing action game elements into their combat systems, which I think holds great potential and represents the first genuine innovation in the genre in a long time.
  
• The Megami Tensei series of JRPGs. A massive, yet unique set of games with generally very solid gameplay, great atmosphere, and stories heavily drawing upon real-world mythology, religion, and philosophy. Favorites are SMT3, SMT Strange Journey, and Devil Survivor 1.
  
• I've recently gotten into shoot 'em ups (shmups), although I am quite bad at them and my experience is still very limited. Nonetheless, they are super fun to play and often very difficult, though many games have easier modes which I have been taking full advantage of. This genre is also very unique in the gaming landscape as a whole, having basically rejected many of the larger design currents of the past 20 years and instead focused on iteration and refinement. Unfortunately this means they are also quite niche.
  

I hope to have interesting discussions with you all!

>Monster Hunter
Never got around to it. Considered the latest, but ultimately opted out. Fights sometimes come off like grinds with a focus on team stuff though I know the opposite can be so. Not my bag.

>DMC
What of the best entries (DMC2 and DmC)?

>Bayo 1
My runs were cursed. Just couldn't stop losing 100% files (got there 3 times). Just wanted that base before going into challenge runs. What a pity. Didn't even touch Bayo 2 (and Bayo 3 seems like vaporware).

>pretty rough
A few were touchy, yes. It was weird how Jeanne on PS3 could 'overcharge' her mini-games (seemingly for more power and points than should be otherwise possible).

>Souls
Need to do more work with DeS. Perhaps with DeS:R. Had runs planned for DaS1 (just did SL1 NUR+), but didn't finish my plate (wanted NUR+ for the other classes *and custom runs with higher stats to make these more interesting for what tools the classes allow* among other things). DaS2 had very troubling plans, but my incapability with save state stuff sunk it early, sadly. DaS3 got the basic run, but I didn't get back to do it again for final patch (thus no DLC work beyond vanilla). BB had plans similar to DaS2 though not as extreme, perhaps.

NOTE: Never really planned to work Sekiro in that same fashion as I felt it unlikely I'd own it (it was already odd how much time I needed to work with Nioh only to STILL not finish 'all' of vanilla once *let alone do runs for it*).

>NGB
Still haven't gotten around to more than NGS (and NGS2) demos up to Master Ninja. My inferior player skill would make it troubling to begin the learning process (reaction, situational awareness, etc.).

>Build Engine shooters
That right? I fancy them, but hardly can bring myself to play at all. I'd sooner watch with great interest only to grow bored rapidly unless they are top players in excellent mods (not necessarily slaughter map nonsense) showing off interesting design choices (and maybe explaining their handling, so I can better appreciate what is going on).

>Nu-Doom
Still haven't been able to make myself care much about it.

>JRPG
I only really gave FFVIII a guy (with cheats) as a boy. Not super into turn-based. Legends of Mana would have been finished were it not for the disc being damaged. Got it again later, but my partner bowed out before we even got to the Underworld. I had more time (growing up) with a WRPG that took the turn-based out (Diablo), but kept the dungeon crawling stuff (along with a lot of the chance factors I dislike strongly in Action *I'm fine with it in this sort of title that really isn't much about that sort of combat* as with Nioh's loot *or even some saber crystals in SWFU1*).

>Shmups
A similar situation though I'm not 'getting into them' (that time is behind me). Maybe check out Jets N' Guns Gold? It has a sequel now (and might have the 'Gold' version for it, too). I think the sequel added a co-op option. Wish it also added an 'Arcade' mode to simulate the quarters (for lives and such in a level). Would go great with a MAME (just mashing 'start' or whatever to simulate more coins while playing fast-and-loose for comparisons of deaths, scores, kills, etc. before inevitability brute forcing a game clear as with Metal Slug when a terrible casual).

Welcome!Super happy to see another monster hunter fan here. I'm really curious what's your favourite title in the series?
Ninja Gaiden Black is an amazing game, so looking forward to seeing your experience with it. Don't be afraid to ask if you want any tip or have any question as there are lot of people here that are really passionate about NG (Raeng in particular).
Regarding Shmups what titles have you played?

>SMT3

Great taste there.

Welcome HPE!

> MH
Not a series I've put a lot of time into (only played a little bit of one of the PSP titles), but I plan to get MHW once it's a bit cheaper and give it a go. I'm not sure if it's going to be my kind of game so I'm waiting for a fairly big discount.

>Retro shooters/Revival
I'm a fan of these too - still have quite a few I need to play though. Still think the old school Doom games hold up amongst the best in the genre, and Doom Eternal is probably my favorite FPS ever. As you've suggested, the combination of fast-paced old school FPS design and action game elements feels very fresh to me, and I hope it influences the genre going forward. I haven't played Ultrakill yet but it is sat in my Steam library, and I think there's potential in Shadow Warrior 3 and Bright Memory too.

> Action games misunderstood
Definitely, totally agree. I misunderstood them myself for a very long time. A lot of action games, particularly the more "hardcore" ones, aren't very newcomer friendly.