DMC5 Special Edition

>Like what?
The bosses are the big one. I genuinely believe that this game doesn't have a single good boss (only has one that I consider decent), and has multiple Arkham-tier bosses. They are too restrictive, too punishing and too random. Fortunately lots of them can be easily looped but it doesn't work on everything.
Aside from this there are other bad segments scattered all throughout the game, like the Bow centric sections. The game is still a net positive but the lows are very low.

>multiple Arkham-tier bosses

jesus harold christ... tell me there's a way to Chester Cheetah that shit

You can cheese one of those bosses but it's not fast (giant worm). One can be cheesed on NG+ (Gigadeath) and the other can't be cheesed at all (Dagra Dai, which is Roy's most disliked boss of all time iirc).
Genuinely the worst boss lineup of any action game I've played.

>bad bosses
I find this to be the case in a lot of action games though some aren't bad per se, they're just less fun and offer less options than a group of enemies.

>too punishing
How so?

>too random
Do you mean they don't have patterns?

>hey're just less fun and offer less options than a group of enemies
This seems to be the case most of the time. Bosses in general don't test you on the same field as normal enemies do and that can be disappointing. I'm playing GoW II now and I'm pretty underwhelmed by the bosses since they just pidgeonhole you into doing one thing and one mistake basically means death.

>How so?
One mistake and you're dead on MN against a lot of them and they have incredibly fast moves, so it's better to play defensively when the game is built around aggressive play otherwise.

>Do you mean they don't have patterns?
They do but I'm mostly referring to the fact that a couple of bosses can just dick around in the air for extended periods of time and they come down randomly and then up again, not to mention the usual random superarmor they get (same as NG1) which I never liked but I understand why it's there.

>One mistake and you're dead on MN against a lot of them and they have incredibly fast moves
Sounds good to me.

>so it's better to play defensively when the game is built around aggressive play otherwise.
JTB said NGB is the mire defensive game and NG2 is offensive. And that if you try to play defensive you'll get destroyed.

I just realized there's a DLC for mission mode. Is this waves of enemies?

Also just realized I'm posting majorly off topic. If you want to continue head over to the NG topic I posted recently.

I think I'll grab grab DMC5 Special Edition for Xbox since it's on sale right now. Probably won't play it for a while though.

> bosses
It's very, very rarely done right by my experience. Games like Evil Within and RE tend to get it more, but those games have far less complicated kits. Action games, I can only think of maybe 2-3 bosses at best that really showcase how the genre can handle quality content - namely the final boss of Astral Chain and the one from Vanquish. And the clone fights from Ninja Gaiden Black. That's it. Sure there are other 'epic' or 'cool' fights, but they're not that mechanically interesting. As you've all noted, they're generally just...more limited fights that don't challenge you as much as a group of regular enemies.

> NG2 mission mode
Contains about 10(?) missions that are specific waves of enemies, sometimes with some traversing in between, two "beat 100 enemies" missions that are pretty brutal, and a survival mode for each weapon.

> offense/defence
Definitly in regards to vision, but you can and need to play offensive and defensive in both games. Just one leans more to one than the other if you get me.

I somehow just posted this in the wrong topic but I’ll try this again:

>action game bosses
Always the low point of every game in the genre for me, even if I love it to death(GoW2 was mentioned and that’s a good example, wonderful game but painfully mediocre bosses). I always hear people say that bosses “test your knowledge and skill of the game up until that point” but that’s almost never the case. Bosses tend to be really restrictive exercises in tedium, where you’re begging for the normal enemies to appear again so you can actually use your shit. This is why I like the bosses streets of rage 4, you can actually combo, juggle, grab, wall splat, bounce, and everything else the game has to offer.

>RE and EW
I’ve always found that these games handled bosses much better than traditional action games.

>NG2 bosses
It is a shame they’re so bad because they put me off from replays. Like, I find the bosses to be abysmal in a game that is otherwise excellent.

>NG2 bosses
In its 'defence', compared to other action-games you can really melt these bosses fast. With the exception of Gigadeath and the final three, most can be killed between 10-30 seconds if you know what you're doing, even on Master Ninja. As a result I find Gigadeath the biggest "god I wish there was a glitch to skip this one" boss in the game for me.

> boss that tests you up on to this point
Literally never seen this happen but always hear it too. You could argue perhaps a few demand you at least know what you're doing, like maybe Murai in NG:B, Nero Angelo in DMC1 or something like Matador in SMT3 - but even then I'm not fully feeling it.

> bosses in other genres
Ironically also liked some bosses in platforming games. Though simple, the (2d) Mario games tend to have pretty fun and quick encounters. Shooters also tend to struggle with them imo.

Think it's pretty impressive how KH handles its bosses, definitely the highlight of the genre in that regard. Over the years I've also warmed up to the bosses in ZoE2. I used to hate them, but they're surprisingly flexible in terms of sub-weapon usage. And ofcourse there's MGS.

>KH and bosses
All I can really say is that it's one of KH2's strongest points for me (at least for the best bosses in the game). Haven't really played enough Action games to compare them to the bosses found in other games, however.

Some bosses are like having the majority of your movelist switched off. Recent example is Genshin does his own Flying Swallow when you jump, shutting down your air options. There are tons of examples like this in action games.

Then there are the giant hitbox types. These don't stop you using anything. You can do what you want but there will be little to no properties since these types of bosses don't take hit-stun.

There's also the type that have openings where you can use your stuff and they'll actually respond. You might have to avoid or defend with these types but once you get an opening you can do whatever.

This got me thinking of games with good bosses. FFX has some really excellent bosses in the main story(not the grindfest postgame). They play around with status effects and introduce gimmicks that are super clever, while still letting you buff, debuff, use aeons(mostly) etc.

CHAOS has really good bosses too. They're a bit one note in the sense that they all transform at the halfway point but they can really be shut down and let you be aggressive while having unique properties.

I mentioned SoR4 already. They're basically just harder normal enemies but they let you use all the game's tools and have unique attacks. They usually have mooks that you can throw into them for collision damage, or throw for iframes.

Since this is the DMC5 topic I do like that one's bosses. They do tend to be the lumbering hitbox variety but you can use enemy step to keep pressure up and still use a variety of attacks.

Vanquish has my favorite bosses ever though. God Hard Bogeys is the best boss I've ever encountered.

>NG2
I just wish there was like an encounter or section select. Then I could skip them altogether.

>DMC5 bosses
I liked Vergil. Once open you can actually combo him a bit.

>NG2 sections
While I haven't played missions mode yet, that looks like it would solve your problem. At least for avoiding bad bosses and sections.

Once I'm done with the main game I'll probably only play survival.

>NG2 has uncheesable shitacular bosses

see, this is one of the reasons why cheese methods existing in a game is a great thing. i can just Holy Water away Arkham in DMC 3 but in NG2 you're just fucked for some of them. these "if i can cheese a game it's fucking SHIIIIIIIIIT because i can't control myself and i hate challenge!!" mentally challenged brothers of mine can fuck right off.

>action games bosses usually range from bad to unbearable

yeah this is unfortunately the case. from what i've played, the action game that has the best bosses by far is Elden Ring. not talking about/can't take into consideration DS3 and the rest of the series yet because i haven't beaten them yet.

ER's bosses are incredible, just so much fun. and they're so much more challenging and complex than the mobs; i know that's how it is in the rest of the series as well but it's the context that's changed. in the prior games it made sense for the mobs to be simpler and not as difficult because it's a war of attrition. so that worked in those games.

but it doesn't in ER: it's not a war of attrition anymore because sites of graces (what bonfires are called now) are everywhere, there's no reason to fight mobs in the open world for multiple reasons, there's barely any mobs on the main path to the boss in the main/legacy dungeons and once you get past them once then that's it because there are no boss runs anymore (you get a site of grace or a checkpoint in another form right before every boss now). so ER has the reverse problem of bad bosses; the game is bosses and nothing else, it's why you play it.

all the usual problems that are being mentioned-- the majority of your movelist being switched off/tools invalidated, 'lumbering hitboxes', et cetera-- don't apply. every single tool that you can use on mobs can be used on bosses. they're not lumbering hitboxes because you can parry, flinch, stagger, and stance-break them. it's beautiful.

i will say that Souls games have an advantage to begin with because the combat system is designed to fight 1 or few amounts of enemies. most action games would start off from a much better place by making bosses that function closer to regular fights-- action game developers need to expand their notion of what boss battles are further than "1 super powerful enemy" or don't even do bosses to begin with if you can't figure out how to make it just as much fun as fights with normal enemies.

DMC3 has some pretty great bosses overall (along with some shitty ones). In general if it's just "a big enemy with tons of HP" then they tend to be decent. As Infinity_Divide said also the ones in 5 are good, even if they are on the easy side (like the whole game tbh). The Dante bossfight in SE is an highlight, better than the Vergil boss imo. I don't like how it's easier to combo the latter than certain other common mooks like Protos and Antenoras. He's fucking Vergil, why does he flail around in the air like a piece of paper?
The action game with the best bosses I played so far is probably God Hand (even though I just played it once on Normal, have to fix that), since they're literally just big enemies, so they can be launched and juggled.
Other than that MonHun has some great ones but that's a given considering the game's all bossfights.

>DMC3 bosses
I always see this boss lineup mentioned negatively, and yeah it has some shit ones there are some excellent ones too(Vergil and Agni and Rudra namely). The good outweighs the bad, unlike most action games where the miserable ones take up the majority.

>ER bosses
Not saying it can’t be done but is parrying and stance breaking most of the boss line-up feasible? I played most of the bosses safe.

>best bosses is God Hand
I would have to agree with this too. They’re all basically normal enemies with more complex movesets which is fine with me because I can actually play God Hand when I fight them and not Simon Says.

>MH
I need to play these. I have Iceborne and Rise but I doubt those are good starting points.

From what I've played, the best action game bosses are Monster Hunter by a huge long shot, but like Malcar said it's the whole game so they better be good.

If you like the Souls style bosses then Nioh is another great pick, the ki system is sorta like staggering in Souls but even more interactive IMO.

I know Urizen is a meh boss, but I hope the Wonder Woman game coming out steals Urizen 3's moveset, and has someone like Giganta delivering them. Those kicks, plus more anti-air if you hang round her face too long (which Urizen doesn't do till his 3rd phase) and, I dunno, some shrinking and growing to make her "legally distinct" from him.

I concur that Dante's the best of the series. Would love to see a Nero boss fight, but 5 was a little too risk-averse to go into those untested waters. I fought him in DMC4 Refrain, but he just revs his sword and does max-act streaks. I imagine 6 will start like 4, but with Nero replacing Dante.

Finally finished downloaded SE.

Took like 2 days on and off due to the slow connection here.

Messed with Vergil a little and he feels good to play. Won't get to him seriously until I'm done with NG2.

The rocket hits twice?
What exactly are its properties? Looks like it clipped the enemy's feet, then exploded later.

So what happens when it hits directly?

https://twitter.com/dmc_tyranius/status/1623858685662629889?t=Xw-74S49WfhhU_3j458-dQ&s=19

My eyes were locked on to the rocket. Didn't see he used the shotgun after the dash to knock the freak into the rocket's path.

Still, genius combo. Gave me some ideas too now that I see you can get ahead of the rocket.