Regenerating Bosses in Action Games: Don't even

I cannot get my head around this. Sure, it's a form of extending pressure. All it ever does to me is getting stressed. Very hard to derive some fun out of it.
A feeling like someone moving the goal post while one is running towards it. I call it a cheat.

As hard as it is to see DMC3 Vergil DT rampage, I'm aware that I with my player character have the same ability. So there's that to consider. Konami, to me, is a major offender. Both Anubis in ZoE2 and Armstrong in MGR let me lose my composure too much. Nanomachines, son! Smug sob. Because of that decision, I regard those games a whole lot less than other folks.

What about you?

I'll reply more in depth later, but Anubis and Armstrong's regeneration can at least be canceled, same with Vergil's (to a degree). Which I think makes the mechanic pretty interesting, it adds a lot of pressure using an in-game mechanic that isn't a timer (but secretly is). Vergil's makes a lot more sense since you also have the same ability, making it easy for the player to know what's going on and also how to stop it.

Do feel there should be a limit to it. Vergil does it every 15 seconds iirc on DMD past 50% HP which is nuts, while Armstrong just does it 4 times, same with Anubis.

I know I've encountered such a thing before but don't remember having any issues with it.

Armstrong's was a joke and Vergil was never a problem to me.

There are probably more. Do you have any more examples?

It doesn't really bother me honestly. I would like to see a game where you can poison the health regeneration.

Where I'm in agreement with an alternative is Doku from Ninja Gaiden/Black.
The attack steals life. That makes it not just an annoying prospect of the foe getting a boost, it's an offence to the player. For getting hit.
It's dangerous in tipping the scales of the fight.
No raspberry blown with a automated "watch-me-Wolverine-back-from-the-brink".

And the received price for it is the Kitetsu. Now the player is able to steal with it.
Note that in Vanilla Gaiden the sword drains ones own life once equipped.
It becomes a necessity to steal when one is to brandish it. In Black the effect is nullified on Lv 3.

Birdman wrote:Armstrong's was a joke

And not funny.

Birdman wrote:and Vergil was never a problem to me.

It becomes a vital point on higher diff. Maybe you didn't rise high enough to be bothered? I haven't reached DMD Vergil, but Roy confirms it above.

Armstrong's healing can be shut down too easily to be an issue.

>DMD Vergil
Years ago. Like less than a month after release. To be honest I don't remember it that well. I'm running on the assumption that I would remember if something bothered me that much.

Doku's always was a tad weird for me, as you can mash out of it so fast the drain is pointless. The Kitsesu was equally strange with its lifedrain. Vanilla NG has the drain be fixed, but also had a life-recovery armlet that negated its drain, while NGB removed the drain at lvl3 as you noted.

Elizabet in NGII was a lot more brutal with her blood-rain, which could take her from 1% to 100% if you weren't careful. Very dangerous move.

> armstrong
Yeah you can just use BM or even regular attacks to negate it. Only when doing a fist-only battle does it matter.

> Vergil DMD
If you don't put up the pressure he will generally restore 90% of the damage you did to him beforehand, making for a very, very dragged out fight for first time DMD players. If you just use Killerbee you'll nuke him completely though.

Ok yeah, first time sure. But that's to be expected. Stuff has to be figured out. The situation doesn't stay the same if you practice and replay though.

Birdman wrote:Armstrong's healing can be shut down too easily to be an issue.

Royta/Raeng wrote:> armstrong
Yeah you can just use BM or even regular attacks to negate it. Only when doing a fist-only battle does it matter.

Birdman wrote:Ok yeah, first time sure. But that's to be expected. Stuff has to be figured out. The situation doesn't stay the same if you practice and replay though.

As much as I would like to be not the one who formulates this: Then why bother? To put it in I mean. If it's just a sleigth of hand, easy to cope, as you fine computer commandos are inclined to make it sound, what's the bleeping point? Other than let the plebs rage quit and disturb the few annoyed?

>why bother?
Don't know. I didn't design it.

>easy to cope
Are you saying it's not?

I'm saying it's filler and a waste of resources. Things that have no relevant use downgrade any experience.

Words and pages in books. Minutes and scenes in film.

You mentioned stress and pressure in your first post. I assumed this was a difficulty issue, not resource.

But yeah, since it is so easy to deal with. It make take some people a few tries. First thing I did was attack from the front. It's a beginner's trap.

Once you know, he can't do anything to stop you from approaching and you can so this so fast he barely gets in any healing. You even get a nice opening for free.

It is mostly a method to put up stress, even on subsequent runs. Armstrong can do his healing when you're far away from him for example, meaning he'll get a few % healing off (he heals quite fast on REV). I think it can be done more interesting though e.g. having the boss heal while hazards appear, I remember a boss doing that but can't quite remember what game it was from. In Armstrong's case it is still a test of accuracy under stress too, which might scare starting players. If you don't BM correctly he'll counter you for solid damage and restart his healing.

For example though, Anubis in ZoE2. At least he attacks you while healing, making it a bit more dynamic. You have the stress of "have to stop his healing" but at the same time he fires projectiels at you. It isn't the best example as attacking him to stop his healing also stops his projectile, but you get the idea.

Vergil's just makes sure that you can't outrange him. Because technically you can just SpiralRC every boss in the game so this is a type of safety messure to make sure you keep up the pressure and don't lame him out I'd say.

>life regen being an issue.
Not really, action games usually feature ways to outdamage the healing or outright shut it down, they're also something you know it'll come and can react to in time since it's an action gane. It's more of an issue on a genre like rpg where hours of progress can be thrown away because of a heal happening at an unfortunate time for the player. I still remember Bowser from the 1st Paper Mario difficulty being tied to how often he'd heal himself.

Heals in action games aren't even nearly as bad as stuff like damage caps.

I found another in IREM's 1988 Vigilante. Bosses get a slice of meter back, if not aggressively attacked.
Being that it is a side-scroller one-plane beater, it's not hard to comply. Just have to get in the scuffle.

One that comes back to me is Amelia in Bloodborne. She can heal herself, and the only way to stop it AFAIK is to use a very limited item. If you run out, you basically have to out-damage her healing or you're fucked.

Minor example, Qurupeco in 3rd gen Monster Hunter. Bird-like monster that has a giant sac on its neck it uses to mimic the cries of other monsters.

It can also sing songs that buff or heal itself and any other monsters in the area (like the Hunting Horn weapon that the player can use). If you manage to stagger it while it sings though, you'll get the heal/buff instead.