Ninja gaiden general discussion

Is it waggle to attack?



Also in NG2, what determines if you can dash out of a guard if you are being shot by machine guns. Sometimes when the Tac ninjas or big mechs unload on me I can dodge out, sometimes it is like I am stun locked in guard.


What is the best way to wind run when essence is near you, without absorbing it. I want to wind/path of an enimies head and do a quick OLUT, but if I pres X+A while blocking he just parries. If I let go of block to Wind Run he absorbs normally.


edit: Genshin on the ship is probably a real progress block for bad players on warrior. He has waves of IS with him, and the player hasn't had much practice with them. On top of that Genshin loves FSing you if you jump. That is probably the Alma of this game.

The NG subreddit is really trash lol

> machine guns
You have to cancel out of the first bullet IIRC, after that you'll get absolutely locked into block-stun. It's hard to describe these things, I always do them automatically, but when you ask the question I legit have no idea if what I'm saying is correct haha.

> Wind run
I always do a dodge first, that way jumping has prio over doing a parry. I might let go of the block for a frame or so in between but I don't think so.

> genshin
It's a rough fight, especially since there's a boss immediately afterwards, especially for beginners. It helps that it's a big arena, but there isn't a lot of cover either.

> NGsub
My blocklist is growing by the day.

I accidentally FS'd with the scythe on my DS run after Volf. Hate that they force switch the weapon, though it is worth it for the badassness it provides on your first run.
Don't think I hit anyone, hope I still get the achievement.

Really don't like the start of chapter 8.
This is when the balance beautiful unbalance Itagaki loves becomes less beautiful.
The rocket guys can hit you from across the whole map, but some reason your bow drops off after 30 feet. Black bow was much better.
Though I love bow UTs so much.
DS is not an ideal weapon at all for mech fiends.

Weird thing I noticed the mines later just respawn if you walk away, was hoping to be able to destroy them all. The ones in the snow seem to have no actual presence.

Haven't had a single frame drop or hitch on series S so far.
One weird thing was the cntroller that came with it is terrible. I though it was input drops but there are like deadzones on the outer part of the face buttons. So you can press them down fully but it won't register if your thumb isn't dead center.
Never had this issue with any other controller, really hope it is just a defect and not how all X/S are.
Most people would never notice this apart from fighting games that require such precision.

Luckily had some spare controllers from PC.

It is strange how string input speeds work in this game. Some strings can be buffered, some strings MUST be buffered, and some strings cannot be buffered.
Really requires dedication to learn every string and the timings.

IIRC you can still use weapons, just not kill anyone with them, but I am seriously not sure anymore at this point.

> chapter 8
It and the swamp are my least favourites. Especially don't like the mech-fiends and how unreliable they are to kill. I tend to just guard-reset their attack string and then punish with a raw Tonfa UT to get them out of the way haha.

> mines
I always skip that section tbh: https://youtu.be/HY9tXqMooEc?t=584
(I show it really badly here, since I suck, but you can just roll-jump past them all and then XYXXXY the turrets).

> controller
That sounds legit horrible. Was it for every game? Or just NGII?

> controller

I only tried NG. I just immediately plugged in my other one. I tested it by being in the menu and pressing equip/unequip weapon, it would register like 70%.

I think Gajas are my favorite enemy. Fast, very telegraphed attacks, and you can juggle/ID them.
I like the spriggans, they are super fair. They are one of the few enemies you can fight like NGB. Block, dodge to the side, punish.

The Tovs on warrior are 60% ranged spam horse shit. There was one that was like tac ninjas, missile ninjas ,and mech fiends.
Who finds that fun?


Stair fight was glorious to see without framerate drops. Am I crazy or is there way more enemies allowed to spawn and be n screen?
I had literally 40 or 50 all around me it was nuts.
Doing a wind blades and seeing the destruction, no frame drops. Nothing can be better.

> controller
If you can test it with another game let me know, I still kind of want a Series X down the line, but if the controller is ass I'll just stick to the regular One X.

> Gajas
Fantastic enemies, completely agree. I like how they are able to be in large numbers, lose limbs pretty fast and are still fairly agressive and have very high damage moves (tailswipe especially). My biggest love for them is a simple one though, they don't immediately lose OT status if decapitated, it's very easy to get a decapitation-OT on them, which is just a super cool animation.

> TOVs
Most of them are either "super cool fight", "that was super easy" and "why do I even live". I admit I skip most of them recently.

> stairs
I wish we could play the unpatched version on the Xbox One/Series. The spawn cap is way higher there yeah, most fights have a limit depending on the fight in general per foe. So in the TOV1 on Master Ninja there's IIRC 5 ninjas, 5 IS and 3 mages. If you kill 1 mage, 1 mage joins. If you kill a ninja, a ninja joins. Kill 2 IS and 2 IS join.

On the stairs theres ninjas and IS, but they are all in the same pool IIRC and the pool is way higher. There's also a few parts where if you cross a certain thresshold on the stairs you'll activate another spawn, making it even more brutal.

In other news, I've bought a regular Xbox for super cheap (20 bucks) and am really enjoying playing Black on it so far. I know the game looks good in 4k but...it looks seriously gorgeous on a CRTV. It's crazy how good it looks by comparison of other games like on the PS2 and Gamecube - game is straight up from the future.

> Gajas
Also love how they have like no armor. So most attacks stagger.
A massive room of just them is so great. No ranged spam, just ng2 at it's best.


>I've bought a regular Xbox for super cheap
Damn. Does Black run better than 360 on OG xbox? Black had some bad load hitching in tairon for me on 360.

I agree CRT is fantastic. Every month or so I message around to try to find a trinitron. Unfortunately no car, so hard to get a 160 lb tv lol.
You could hook up Black to the crt through the 360 with composite, which it supports.
I wonder how NG2 looks on a crt.


>If you can test it with another game let me know

Yeah it does it on the dashboard.
Though I am using a generic wired xbox controller and it works with the series S so not a big deal. h

Was about to note the same regarding Gajas, namely the stagger. I kind of like fighting Werewolves too since they are so different, but seeing them no-sell some moves just 'because they felt like it' can really take you out of the flow of NGII. They also have a very simple projectile that's just nice enough to screw with you but not oblitherate your entire playstyle. Fantastic foe.

> OG xbox
It honestly runs like trash personally, I am in the PAL region so my copy is already capped at 50FPS but when I do a Lunar UT the thing basically catches fire. Halo was even worse, giving me flashbacks to GoldenEye on the N64. I can handle it and it looks great, but the 360 and Xbox One have it run way better.

> NGII on a CRT
I know what I'm doing tonight. Still have a 360 lying around, if I can somehow get it to go SCART I should be able to get it to work. Jesus that would be so cool.

Anyone playing the collection still? I got to the second Rachel mission in 1 and the last girl mission in 2 and just said nope. Hate those levels. After playing vanilla 2 late last year I don’t think I can do Sigma 2 anymore, unless I’m just chilling out, which…NG should not be a chill out game.

Not really, I uninstalled them pretty fast, couldn't even beat Sigma 2 on Mentor before going back to NGII. I was derping around in Razor's Edge a bit, but with the little gametime I have, I'd rather put my NG hours to NGB or NGII when I can, instead of doing all those difficulties again.

It was weird to go back to Sigma 2 though. I started with that game, so I'll always have a softspot for it, but a lot more was changed than I remember. Like how there's far more bridges instead of jumps, like Hayashi and co. just couldn't conceive players knowing how to press X to jump.

I found this interesting data:



Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj1BeAgVuFY&ab_channel=AustinSV

That's from that excellent comparison video right? Guy did a fantastic job on that video, especially the NG/B/S part wwas great and we finally have confirmation on some of the input lag in certain entries.

Yeah, it's from a recent comparison video. I already knew the channel because some time ago I watched another comparison between Yakuza 3-4-5 ports and their original versions.

By the way, it's incredible how much more responsive NG3(RE) was on Xbox 360.

Yeah the PS3 really got the short end of the stick that generation due to it being so hard to develop for.

Just glad to finally have proof that Sigma 2 has slight input lag. I *knew* something was off.

So let's get this straight.

If I want to play NG Black without an original Xbox, I need to buy a Series X or S?

I only just found out the Series S doesn't have a disc drive.

Can you use an NGB disc with the Series X?

If not and digital is the only way to go, did anything weird happen with this version?

You can use the disc on a Series X, and it will download the game from the Xbox server (The disc is being used as a licence for the game essentially).

I don't think there's anything weird with it, like all the backward compatible games it's just the original game packaged with Microsoft's emulator. I don't think there's even one emulation bug, and it looks and runs beautifully on the Series X, the same applies for NG2.

To add a bit to that, the BackwardsCompatible version actually 'fixed' one thing (maybe by accident). Namely the visual effect when close to the wall in 'otherworld' stages is gone, which makes it a LOT easier to see.

Can someone check this and confirm if this is what I saw?

Go to 7.09. He's just coming down from Izuna.

Soon after she throws pillars. He runs up the wall, jumps off, then uses some air attacks to dodge the rest?

He does a wall hanger at first (don't remember the technical name), then when he hits the ground he runs back up the wall, does a Flying Bird Flip (press jump while on a wall) to avoid the pillars and throws shurikens mid air to extend air time (note that the flip doesn't give iframes).

GENIUS.

He does a wallrun into walljump into shuriken into helmsplitter (Y). Case by case this does the following:

- wallrun: gives minor i.frames at the peak and makes Ryu's hurtbox smaller too
- walljump: massive i.frames and makes him practically unhittable since he's so high up
- shurikens: increases airtime
- helmsplitter: startup has Ryu go upwards a bit, for even more increased airtime.

These combinations are also used to elevate Ryu above expected heights, allowing you to reach spots you're not supoosed to which is neat.

>iframes
Really? Didn't remember that. In NG2 when you have IS on you I had to do a wall attack with iframes in order to not get hit. Are you telling me that a simple flip would have been enough?

The start of the flip has i.frames in both games as I recall, and I think in NG:B it has them at the start and end.

I really wish someone would do a data-deepdive at one point.

I bought a Series S to play this but Microsoft can't even include a way to charge the controller batteries?

So I have to get a charging station, and a crappy third party one too because you can't get official ones here anymore.

Finished my first Master Ninja run a few days ago, it was pretty fun.



A few notes from my experience:

• Don't know if I got better at resource management but you seen to get more essence than usual at higher difficulties. It was quite easy to restocked items with minimal grinding, specially during the second half.
  
• Wall jump attacks are OP. Like absurdly OP, very few enemies in the game could punish the strat.
  
• Dabilahro is the easiest way to kill Fiend-Ryu boss.
  
• The air is a pretty safe area, very few enemies are pose a danger during your air combos. Only cat-fiends and projectile soldiers pose a treat.
  
• The fact that boss fights spawn with minions made certain fights easier and said minions are essencially free UT resources, this was best showcased in the Doku fight where I beat him with a few Dabilahro UTs.
  

Congratulations!

You simply got better haha, essence is in fact the same but prices are increased, making maxing out weapons and buying healing items far harder on Master Ninja.

> walljump
Yeah there's a whole category in challenge runs noted "no wall attack". I feel they balanced them more in NGII, but overdid it in NG3RE (practically useless).

> fiend ryu
The XY strat I assume? I tend to use that one too.

Will you be doing another run in the future?

I will be playing NG1 again soon but a more "relaxed" run in Normal Mode, will be aiming for Master Ninja rank in all chapters.

Note that the rank is based purely on Karma, not really on playstyle or skill. It's a neat goal but generally wasn't too interesting for me personally. You interested in Karmarunning?

Chapter 12 now.

Double armadillo sucked. They kept blocking the camera.

Hated the fight with the gargoyle boss surrounded by lava.
I guess I'm close to the end.

> double arma
You'll learn to deal with this fight. Using IS paired with the Claws (xx>XYYY) melts this fight

> zedonius2
This is imo the worst fight in the entire game.

> close to the end
Unless the bosses give you much trouble, I'd say about 1-2 hours left yeah.

Zed 2 is horrible due to how he can decide to just stay in the air depending on the RNG, but Gigadeath and Dagra Dai are worse.

Chapters 12 and 14 aren't good, and the start of chapter 13 sucks but after the first save point it becomes fun.

I hate Zed2 mostly due to his random summons, the lava and indeed his airtime. There's so many factors that can just no-sell. He also seems very random at times, sometimes he'll play by the book but other times he'll just do whatever. Hateful fight.

Sometimes these bosses take hit-stun. I've even hit them out of their moves. But there doesn't seem to be any rule. I hate the bosses in this game.

I like fighting groups of ninja and monsters.

Yeah that's generally the consenscous about NG's bosses. Find a way to skip them, then skip them. The real joy is in fighting enemies.

>Sometimes these bosses take hit-stun. I've even hit them out of their moves. But there doesn't seem to be any rule.
For all the greater fiends the hit-stun is completely random because you're supposed to use a short string or a single move to hit-confirm before doing the rest of your combo. For instance when I'm fighting Alexei I'll use the dual swords forward hold Y move whenever there is an opening and make sure he's actually stunned before using the YYYY string.

>Yeah that's generally the consenscous about NG's bosses. Find a way to skip them, then skip them.
I think it's a shame that this is the general opinion because I honestly think most of the bosses in NG are a lot of fun once you've learned how to play with them thanks to how open ended NG's combat is. Some of the bosses feel like the closest I've experienced to a single player fighting game thanks to the built in unpredictability.

I have that feeling with the Doppleganger fights, but with a lot of the bosses I feel like they either result in me going the most efficient route or having absolutely no clue what I'm doing despite doing so. I really like Murai and Fiend Genshin, and Elizabeth too if she doesn't go too ham on the cheese.

I 'respect' Dagra Dai for being insane. But that's about it for me, though if you like the bosses I can definitely see the appeal.

Ninja Trials done! The Fire Dragon (fuck the arches) fight and the survival missions are I failed the most.


Eternal Legend was a blast to play.

The mission-mode is super good, especially Eternal Legend. It feels like a delightful summary of the game in a single level (which makes sense, since it was sort of used for the ninja-gaiden tournament at the time to a degree).

What are you going to do now? Or shift to NGII?

I will take a break from NG for a short while and then start the Hard Mode run of NGS2.

How good is windmill shuriken in ninja gaiden black?

Pretty solid, deals decent damage and will decapitate. I prefer the shurikens for their speed, but Windmill damages some enemies where the shurikens just bounce off.

Would a pain plus in ninja gaiden 2 be possible?

Anything is possible. But that one might be unprobable. It would mean:
- level 1 dragon sword only
- no ninpo
- no life upgrades
- shurikens only
- no healing items

If you want to add extra modifiers you could add NoUT and no savescumming. It wouldn't be fun. Maybe Fahram would do it?

> windmill shuriken in NGB
I use it to destroy flying robots mainly, but it works like any other shuriken, so you can use it, for instance, on Hydracubus to cancel flyingswallow and do helm spliter, but you can also do that with incendiaries and they deal extra damage with explosions to tentacles.

>level 1 dragon sword only NG2
What do you do when you get True Dragon Sword?  You switch to Dragon's Claw and Tiger's Fang Dragon's Claw lvl 1? Same problem when you get blade of archdemon. Or is there a way to avoid them?

> windmill
Good notes, forgot about those little flying droids. It's great for killing those for sure, also against Hydra as you noted.

> PAIN
Forgot that we were in NG:B. Then yeah it's super possible. Just really hard, but very possible. I think the Marbus gauntlet will be hell though, as well as the part where you have to fight ninjas, then dragons and then hydracubus in chapter 4.

Royta/Raeng wrote:> windmill
Good notes, forgot about those little flying droids. It's great for killing those for sure, also against Hydra as you noted.

> PAIN
Forgot that we were in NG:B. Then yeah it's super possible. Just really hard, but very possible. I think the Marbus gauntlet will be hell though, as well as the part where you have to fight ninjas, then dragons and then hydracubus in chapter 4.

Mmm, in my judgement challenge runs don't suit the NG series to begin with, though they are possible (at least to a degree). And likely, not the DMC and Bayonetta series either, that seems to be more like a GoW thing, where, at least in the first game, I had a lot of fun, in part because certain techniques and magic attacks allow you to deal with enemies (due to ignoring difficulty differences as well). Not so much in NG2.

Anyway, what's the best way to beat Alma 1? Not playing NG:B right now, it's just for for future reference. As far as I could observe, FS hits her every time if you do it right after her dash, or after she tried to go for an aerial grab (when she is about to finish her "tractor beam" animation), but it does low damage, and the camera really sucks in that boss fight, which makes it much more difficult to beat her.

> challenge runs don't fit NG
To a degree I agree. Feel single weapon runs are the limit of enjoyable, maybe no-ninpo. But some people get crazy with it (like us with NUR) or even worse (Timmy with Masocist Run).

> Alma1
On Master Ninja you can kill the ninjas in the room before, keep their essence, run to the boss and start with an immediate Gleaming Blade. She always starts the fight on the ground trying to fly up, which leaves her vulnerable. That's an easy 30% HP gone. After that, I tend to focus on the adds. When they are gone I use FS to knock her down (I honestly just do it after every one of her attacks). Once knocked down I use firewheels + >YXXX >YXXXX for a good combo.

Royta/Raeng wrote:> challenge runs don't fit NG
To a degree I agree. Feel single weapon runs are the limit of enjoyable, maybe no-ninpo. But some people get crazy with it (like us with NUR) or even worse (Timmy with Masocist Run).

> Alma1
On Master Ninja you can kill the ninjas in the room before, keep their essence, run to the boss and start with an immediate Gleaming Blade. She always starts the fight on the ground trying to fly up, which leaves her vulnerable. That's an easy 30% HP gone. After that, I tend to focus on the adds. When they are gone I use FS to knock her down (I honestly just do it after every one of her attacks). Once knocked down I use firewheels + >YXXX >YXXXX for a good combo.

This one, I presume: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdi5z_Djot4

Mmm, upon reading the list of requirements to get it done, I think such a run would be too much for me, lol. That's arguably what a PAIN run would look like, and I bet it would be worse than my NG2 NUR.

Mmm, only one problem with Alma, since sometimes I die to those ninjas and cats, I always go back to the save point after killing them. Still useful advice, perhaps I didn't concentrate enough on minions in my previous runs. Fire Wheels is a nice suggestion, though I try not to use Ninpo against her, due to how questionable the game's ranking system is (e.g another annoying thing is that, if you start a level with 99k essence, you'll always get 0 karma at the end of it).

After every attack? Seems unsafe, I take it she is vulnerable after finishing every one of her attack animation.

> the run
Yeah that's the one. I used to talk to Timmy quite a bit but we lost track of each other over the years, great guy. He ended up quitting the run due to a specific fight, I forgot which one. He did complete the 120 Berserker fight IIRC, which alone is madness.

> Alma
Yeah best is to let them live, if you kill them the strat doesn't work.

> ninpo
Always have a devil elixer (?) handy, just pop it before the chapter ends and you'll have full ninpo score. That said, fuck Karma haha, I'll leave that shit to players like JTB and Burningleaf(? think that's his name).

> unsafe swallows
Damn straight haha. There's a few safer openings but I don't mind taking a few to the chin.

Starting Black soon.