Okami

I'll respond to the posts I've yet to address later. Just wanted to mention that I completed the first Devil Gate trial. That really was something else. Pure nonstop fun for minutes. Also glad that my current knowledge of how to deal with enemies allowed me to get good ranks on everything. Or maybe it's because the time limit is pretty lax? Either way, looking forward to the remaining gates.

>enter into the palace area
I meant the caves where the Devil Gate trials are in. But yes, I'm able to enter them right before boarding the ark.

>won't appear in the bestiary
Even if fought in the trials?

>looks like a statue
Yup.

>Cherry Bomb forces a teleport
Tested it, you're right.

>lightning is their weakness
It looks like fire, ice, and lightning affect them equally (having a different animation for each).

>can only knock them away
Right. Poor wording on my part.

>top source
Looks like I've bought everything interesting, and I didn't even stop to grind them too much. Guess my NG and NG+ totals added up.

>special attack
Seen it. Is there a way to cancel it?

>way to make them do it
Haven't had luck trying to replicate this.

-------------------------------

I completed all of the trials. They were pretty brutal. Died once in the second one, but the Astral Pouch (which I didn't need in the entirety of this new playthrough) saved me. For the very first time in my whole playtime, I felt forced to use items during the final bits of the third trial. The fights with sword users spamming summoned swords was pretty crazy. And of course there had to have been a triple Izanagi fight. Their HP totals seemed a bit ridiculous. Basically spammed Veil whenever I could, but not even the Golden Ink Pot could keep up at all times, so I had to space out Veil usage. I got good ranks on most things, except for the penultimate fight in the second devil gate, the one where sickle weasals (?) appeared, a few encounters from the beginning of the third, and pretty much everything from the 8th encounter onwards (from the last one). I got the second worst time ranking in the last fight, so there definitely is a way to do better.

I'm still not sure what to think of the HP totals of the last couple of fights, but this is pretty much what I wanted to see in Okami. Something that really forced me to bring my A-game. So glad that those caves exist. And you can apparently do them as many times as you like (except for the spider bosses).

>Even if fought in the trials?
It's not in the trials.

>It looks like fire, ice, and lightning affect them equally
Lightning not doing more damage. I might have been thinking of the imp type that looks like a statue.

>Is there a way to cancel it?
Don't know. They never use it so it's hard to test.

>Haven't had luck trying to replicate this.
I heard Cherry Bomb triggers it, but it did nothing when I tried.

Might be something specific like HP, or maybe some other brush tech.

>Basically spammed Veil whenever I could, but not even the Golden Ink Pot could keep up at all times
You can avoid all their swords by running full speed around the edge of the arena. But you'd need to Veil first or you likely won't get the chance to build up speed.

For damage best bet would be the strongest glaive low jump air attacks with Veil active. Vengeance Slips might stun them. Don't remember. An upgraded Thief Glove can kill them in 2-3 hits but that's a huge grind.

>And you can apparently do them as many times as you like (except for the spider bosses).
Yeah just leave then jump back down the hole and it resets. I do most of my testing in these. Wish we could floor select.

Started the game, took a bit to get into it with the long intro (the story kind of interests me though). The visual style is great. Curious to see how the combat will evolve but am already surprised by how well and alive the first town already is.

^ Glad to know you're playing this as well. Wonder if you'd be able to do more with it than me, since I'm finding that my time is getting more and more limited.

Birdman:
>not in the trials
Then perhaps I'm thinking of another enemy. I thought of one of the wheel enemies with portraits on them.

>thinking of the imp
Would have to test it later.

>never use it
>hard to test
Perhaps this can be a good place for save states to shine. This was pretty much a necessity for the GoW1 document that I wrote.

>running around the arena
I believe I did that, but got tagged by one of them. Though it's possible that Veil just wasn't active when I was doing so.

>For damage best bet would be the strongest glaive low jump air attacks with Veil active.
That's basically what I did. Whenever I could, I'd also equip another Glaive on sub to deal more damage with the passive bonus damage. Otherwise, I'd have a reflector at the ready to block stuff. Sometimes I used the Rosary to build Godhood, and also for the utility about hit stun (don't want to get into details in case Raeng doesn't want to get spoiled about these things, but you probably know what I'm talking about).

>Vengeance Slips
Didn't use them. Healing items and one or two Inkfinity Stones at the very end, I did use. Still, I'll see if they help me to stun enemies, as you said.

>Thief Glove
I completely forgot about this, so it would probably have dealt piss weak damage.

>wish we could floor select
Agreed. An emulator user could work around this with save states, but it's still much better to do as you say.

>one of the wheel enemies with portraits on them.
Like the elemental wheels, the mirrors have types too. For some weird reason one of these only shows up in the part where you shrink, in the room where you drop into the emperor's mouth. There's nothing special about this type though.

>Perhaps this can be a good place for save states to shine
Would be nice. Possible on the PC version I assume.

>so it would probably have dealt piss weak damage.
Definitely. Not worth using in that case.

>one particular type only appears in the emperor's mouth
Will have to pay closer attention to it, then. Is there any other missable enemy? I'll be starting my third playthrough soon enough, where I'll start to write my notes (to share them with you, just to see if I missed anything). Then my fourth run will be a NUR+.

>PC version
I didn't even know there was a PC version.

Fire Doom Mirror and Clay Flyer.

I think Clay Flyer is in that part where you go back in time.

This only matters if you want the trophy.

Few questions:

- sometimes when fighting there's a little icon at the bottom left, it's sometimes yellow, sometimes red or green. What is it?

- I'm not sure, but why do Trees not always sprout when doing them in combat? Is it because there's a hidden cooldown or something? I will do a 3 hit string, then go into brush to do trees to launch enemies but they won't come out half the time.

>icon
It's called Godhood.

It's a shield. The color indicates its level. You raise it by increasing hit count.
It will completely block one attack. If you're at green and get hit you'll go down to yellow, then red. So at max you get 3 shields.

>trees
They only work on grass.

No cooldown but you can only have 3 up at once. But it sounds more like you aren't on grass.
So in a lot of areas like dungeons you can't use them.

> GodHood
Ah, I got an item that 'increases godhood', so that's just a shield buff then? And when the shield runs out you will take HP damage? Seems like there's a lot of fallback then, shield, health, the revival gauge.

> trees only on grass
That's definitely the issue, cheers for that.

>And when the shield runs out you will take HP damage?
Exactly.

>a lot of fallback
Sure is.

Eventually you'll have full health, 3 free hit with shield, 3x revives, and tons of items.

Starting my third playthrough. Will begin writing notes. Want to follow this format:

[Enemy Name]

Vulnerable to [X, Y, and/or Z brush technique]

Effects of [X, Y, or Z] while not doing anything.

[Enemy Name]'s move 1, and so on.
- Susceptible to [X, Y, or Z] while doing this move? If so, describe effects.

Any suggestion to simplify this will be encouraged and appreciated.

Works for me.

I'll add any details that you haven't found (if any).

Been meaning to do this myself but haven't had time. While I have notes on most, I know there's more to find.

Might look into some stuff today. Just need to update my Switch save.

Checking some imp stuff and found some difference with the flying and floating skull variations.

Earlier in this thread I showed how stunning imps works with the normal and weapon type being stunned by the final hit and the slightly different rule for 'drum' types.

I've found that the flying and skull imps can't be stunned with melee at all. On the final hit (whether you hit with the whole string or just the final) they recover mid air and land on their feet.

>I'll add any details that you haven't found (if any)
Yeah, basically what I had in mind. I'll see if I have all of it ready by next weekend.

>weapons and their interaction with enemies
Ah, got to consider this as well when writing my notes.

On a side note, is it just me, the emulator being quirky, or... does the jump have a few i-frames?

And on an unrelated note, I saw the extras. Noticed that there were a few pages from a manga. Does this game have one? Or even an anime? I recall that Capcom was pretty into anime back in the day, think DMC had one, as did Viewtiful Joe. I saw none of them though, only two series outside Clover (Mega Man Battle Network and StarForce). Not sure if they're worth watching. And if they each have a manga, also wonder if they're worth checking out.

>does jump have iframes
Not sure. I've been hit at various levels of jump but I've never really tested it.

>Okami manga
Looked it up and only found a fan made one.

It looks like it's on the earliest frames of your jump. I was going to tell you if you'd want me to make a video, so you could point out if that's supposed to happen, or something else. But I've ran out of time. Maybe next time.

>fan made one
Then it's probably just what appears in the extras.

>if it's supposed to happen
Probably is.

A good way to test this might be to let a Dead Fish grab you and self destruct.

>manga in extras
Don't know. All I'm saying is I found a fan made one.

There is definitely i-frames in jump. Tested it with Dead Fish. Jumped just as it exploded. No damage.

Now to find out if the same is true for double jump.

Found some interesting details regarding stunning skull and flying imp types.
These are the ones that can't be stunned by the final hit of your weapon strings.

But they can be stunned if you meet certain conditions first. Like the drum imp that needs to be in the colorless stun state through their unique stun methods first. The flying type doesn't lose color but I'll get to that in a minute.

For skull imps, either Power Slash their skulls to destroy them when you want or when they launch them. Once stunned they are susceptible to the final hit stun of melee weapons.

But like the drummer imp, you don't have time to do the full string normally, unless you use Veil I guess. Haven't tried that yet.

So I loaded another testing file where I haven't upgraded any weapons. Glaive has two hits which you can easily get in. And you can keep restunning it as every final hit will knock them into another stun, which is the case for all imps.

With flying imps, you just have to knock them out of they air which causes them to drop head first into the ground. Instead of the colorless state, they'll have their heads stuck in the ground and be trying to pull them out. This is when you can weapon stun them.

Again, you won't have time with the full string unless you started early, or maybe had the final hit on Glaive charged. Or Veil but need to check. With an unupgraded weapon it's no problem.

Flying imps can be dropped with Galestorm, weapon attacks, Power Slash, probably Ink Bullet, trees, probably Cherry Bomb (counts as physical). Elemental stuff will make them fall but not in the same state. They'll land on their feet.

That reminds me, the head first drop can also happen on other imps when they do their jumping hand attack. If you hit them during the height of their jump it's just enough. Will test if stunning is possible from this state on them too.

Izuna will always stun them. All above rules apply, though the second tier of imps with weapons might be able to block follow ups.

There are i-frames on double jump. Tested with Dead Fish self destruct again.

Something odd is happening with the flying imps. I thought it was about dropping them and attacking while they're stuck in the ground. But I'm getting different results under the exact same conditions.

In the first Devil Gate there are two fights with a lot of flying imps. Some could be stunned immediately without being knocked out of the air. One kept air recovering from the final hit knockback.

I thought it might be their health but no matter how much they have I still get mixed results.

Thought it might be weapon strength and it actually looked like that's what it was but then this one imp wouldn't respond.

I equipped a stronger glaive, two glaives, and it still kept jumping out.
But I'm not sure it's random either because then it would happen more often. In a group of like 5 they all got stunned normally except for this one.

Another weird thing is it seems like every imp in the fight changes rules every time I repeat it. I remember yesterday none of them could be stunned. But just before typing this up every one of them could be stunned normally except one.

If it was random I doubt the majority of the room would be following the same rule. It would be all over the place.

The same happens with blinding any imp. Sometimes they do the 3 hit blinded combo once, sometimes twice. I could never find a reason for this. I spent hours in a single fight trying to figure it out.

I found a Discord called Okami Reverse Engineering. It's people getting into the files and getting the models and such. Doesn't seem they do mechanics but you can request they retrieve information for you. I saw a request from someone offering $40 for certain info. Not sure if you HAVE to pay, but maybe no one will bother if you don't.

Looks like they're using an emulator with Cheat Engine which is something I want to get into but don't have the PC for it.

>i-frames on DJ
Dantebros...?

I'll see if I can respond to most of these later.

>there are i-frames in double jump
Neat, so it's definitely not an emulator thing. At this point, I guess it's safe to assume that nothing which I deem peculiar is the emulator's doing. Plenty of weird things I reported for GoW were actually things that could be seen in consoles (such as the leading shots trick working against Ares 1).

That aside, guess you can consider this as my only contribution to you in terms of findings. Because in terms of interactions, I believe you got almost all of it covered. That's not to say I won't share my notes (as I said I would). Just not going to use CE for this (will only take notes on what I find via playing, not by looking at memory addresses).

>Discord
>reverse engineering Okami
Nea-

>$40 for requests
Wut. I hope this is not necessary.

>Cheat Engine
That's what I used to make the GoW1 bestiary data (and confirming existing damage data on weapons, spells, Rage build-up, and the specifics about gravity on statues). Don't really feel like doing it for Okami, though. Not because I don't want to help, it's because doing so for GoW1 was pretty exhausting. Maybe for a few things here and there, if you really need the information on some specifics (assuming you already haven't gotten the info you wanted from said Discord server), as I'm still willing to test some things for GMG or Zim (since it's just specifics, and not the whole game).

>exhausting
Probably why people pay then.

I'm still not though.

>will not pay to play
Oy vey! Hotel's friends will lower your credit score before you know it.

Did a little work on this last night. Not doing much since my laptop broke down but still save clips now and then.

Was messing with the Thunder Ear which is one of those elemental wheels. These wheel types are really cool enemies and can do a lot of stuff. Mentioned them briefly on the first page I think when talking about my no upgrade run

One thing they all have in common is melee is nullified while their element is up. If you try, your attack will bounce off and they'll counter with a spinning attack. If you have a Reflector on sub you can force them to attack, then counter and Izuna Drop them.

I can't remember if Power Slash triggers this but it should. Same for Thief's Glove. I think the splash damage from Izuna triggers it too.

Whenever their element is up you can use it as a source. I've used the fire one to melt the ice one.

Some can start rolling at high speed around the edge of the battle zone. Some go horizontal and pinball around the whole zone. Reflector again shuts them down.

Should mention now there are wheels and mirrors. Same enemy type basically. I need to make a proper list of what each specifically does. But they have a lot of shared stuff.

The Thunder Ear can summon clouds that follow you around and do lightning strikes. The clouds are a lightning source.
Using Galestorm blows away Thunder Ear's element and also blows away the clouds.

I think Veil of Mist briefly turns them off but have to test that.

The Okami wiki is shit. It only lists how to farm Demon Fangs, some basic enemy behavior, and the basic strategies the game already puts in your face. Whoever wrote it is even outright wrong in a few things like Dead Fish not having any move that can be Reflector countered.

But one thing it lists for Bull Charger is that when it does Ice Breath, you can use Inferno or Firestorm to reflect it back and cause a stun. I'm looking forward to testing this though I feel like it's a mistake. How can fire reflect back ice? If it does stun I doubt you actually send the ice back. Likely you just knock him out of it.

Going to try it now. Devil Gate Kamui has tons of these guys.

It has to be a mistake.

Bull Charger doesn't breath ice; he slams the ground with his staffs sending out a trail of ice.
He doesn't remove his mask to do this. That's something the other two bull types (Red and Blue Ogre) do.

I'm assuming they mixed up the bull types but odd that both fire brush techniques somehow got mixed in and also that they specifically repel the ice. It isn't true though.

I'm going to set up my PS2 tomorrow and test blinding imps to see if they still do 1 or 2 cycles randomly. Started to wonder if it could be due to the framerate.

There's something else I remember being different with those drum imps too but might be imagining that.

From the testing I did with save states, it does seem random, yeah.

>wiki says wrong things
Like you said, the fact that they got other stuff mixed up is what's baffling.

Same issue in the PS2 version.

Haven't tested the drum imp thing yet.

Also something else happened with the first green imp you fight, but I wasn't paying attention so need to go back.
Not being able to skip cutscenes is brutal.

Phoenix my brother is learning to use Cheat Engine now. Seems difficult to understand.

Any tips on how to interpret the data?

Depends on what you want to find. First, select the game or emulator you're playing (must first open the game to select this in the CE).

Make sure that the CE is looking for values in the range of the game or emulator you're using. If in doubt, leave things as is, but it will take a bit more time this way. Or you can send me a screenshot.

If you want to find HP (your own or the enemy's), you search for an unknown value (unless you know them already). You can search for Float values (as sometimes games deal with decimal damage values), but just in case, search for All values. But before doing this, make a save state. Ideally when you have initiated a fight and all the enemies have spawned. To be safe, kill all enemies except one.

Then refine the search by looking for an Unchanged Value. Check a box that says something along the lines of 'Repeat' or 'Loop' or something.

Then play the game normally. Do NOT hit anyone during this, as we're trying to get rid of the useless values (getting hit or hitting something will 'change' the value, and we're looking for unchanged values). Leave it running for about 15 seconds. Open the in-game menu, run around the field, but don't get hit or attack.

Uncheck the 'Repeat' box, and hit the enemy (or take a hit). AFTER doing this, look for a 'decreased value'. Hit that enemy again/take a hit, look again for a decreased value, repeat until the enemy or yourself are almost (but not outright) dead. Do remember that you must strictly follow the 'hit -> look for decreased numbers' thing in that order.

Then load your save state, and look for an increased value (since you loaded the state, the HP values should 'increase' to their original values). Do the same procedure of refining (unchanged value -> check the 'Repeat' box, click on search, play the game and don't get hit or attack for about 15 seconds), then the decreased value procedure.

Once you have only a few values available to you (a few dozens instead of thousands, but ideally in the single digit range, though dozens still work), play around with the enemy while looking at the CE. As in, hit the enemy, and look at the CE. If you notice a value decreasing, that might just be the enemy value you're looking for. But if any value decreases when you're NOT hitting an enemy (or increases, for that matter, as neither should happen), then you can safely ignore those values. Once you have spotted the value you suspect is the enemy HP value, click on that address to highlight it, and click on the red arrow to put it in your list of addresses you found. Load the save state, keep hitting the enemy, kill it (value should reach 0 at this point), etc. If that's indeed the value you want, click on the 'Save' option to keep your progress.

After this, the process of looking for values should be MUCH easier now.

With the value you just found, see by how much the HP decreases with each attack. This is how you find attack values. If Amaterasu deals, say, 5 damage (depends on what the game uses) with the first attack of her string, then instead of doing the 'decreased value' procedure to look for a random decreased value, you can now use the 'decreased value by' option, and type 5. Now we'll get more accurate values more often, as 'decreased value' is too general, but using this method is much more precise, and saves a lot of time as a result.

HOWEVER, this is assuming that the attack in question deals 5 damage ALL the time, which we know can't happen. Either because we have upgraded something with Gold Dust, an enemy is in a state where it's resisting attacks, or worse, different enemies take differing damage (which means things being resistant to or weak to certain weapons *outside special enemy states*, instead of it just being an universal value *again, besides an enemy currently taking decreased damage*). In those cases, you must do the decreased value thing.

With weapon upgrades, or just different weapon tiers, you can just attack an enemy whose HP you already know, and look by how much their HP decreases. This is why you look for enemy HP values first.

That took more time than what I had imagined, and it's probably too much to process. If that's the case, I can make a vid if you want, with Okami as an example. Either way, hope this helps.

If you're up to making a video, sure.

Okay, I had a feeling that was a bit much if you're just learning to use the software. I'll see if I can get it done soon-ish enough. Depending on whether I need to do something tomorrow or not, you can expect a link tomorrow, or later (hopefully not next year).

Like I said in the CL topic, most Japanese games I've tried don't work (or I haven't figured out what to do) with CE. So I did a quick test. It works, fortunately.

I can tell you this, from what I found. Okami's enemy HP values range in the thousands. Though to be fair, this was against an enemy in Kamui. The first reflector did hundreds of damage (this was with a gold dust). So it's not like in GoW where the values are in the single or double digits for the majority of the cases.

>GoW's single or double digits vs Okami's hundreds and thousands
That's interesting. Though I suppose it all works out to be more or less the same thing. Is it harder to figure out when the values are larger numbers? Would be interesting to find out just how much Gold Dust increases damage. Or String of Beads which say increases attack by 20x. But that doesn't mean much when I don't know the base numbers.

If my brother can figure out how to use CE properly I'll pay him for this info. So many things I want to know. I'm going to get to the bottom of that blinding thing no matter what.

>more or less the same thing
Yeah, it doesn't matter if we're dealing with trillions. If you can do a trillion of damage yourself, it's no different than dealing 2 damage against a 10/20HP enemy. All that matters is the relative difference between your power and the enemy's HP.

However, for us, it's easier to work with smaller numbers. GoWII's tutorial boss has 10.000HP, and we can only deal damage in the double digits (20-30 or so at most). So what's the catch? In reality, you must only deal 45 damage spread across 3 breakpoints (3x15) to be able to beat the boss' first appearance. So it's simpler to just say that the boss has 45HP instead of 10.000, as the latter can be misleading.

>harder to figure out
Not at all.

>just how much Gold Dust increases damage
I don't have a save with nothing unupgraded. The closest is a save with the third reflector onwards, fourth tier beads, and third and fourth Glaives upgraded. Everything else is at base. I could include the values in the vid for those unupgraded weapons if you wish, though if testing for every attack in the string, that could make the vid a bit long. But as I said earlier, even those values can vary per enemy (depending if they resist attacks on their current state, or if enemies somehow are weak and resistant to certain weapon types, which I don't know if that's a thing).

>String Beads
Or Issun's attacks (to at least see by how much his attack power increases).

Also, never collected all the beads, but I could grab a save file from GFAQs with everything unlocked.

>pay him
Really?

>so many things
I can understand the sentiment.

>Or Issun's attacks (to at least see by how much his attack power increases).

The Thief Glove, yes. That would be very useful to know how much of an increase you get per use and what the max is.

>pay him
To get the amount of info I want is equivalent to a part-time job.

>part-time job
Well, can't say I disagree. Testing all weapons on every enemy will not be an easy task at all. And that's not all... there's also every offensive tech... at every single level (such as Power Slash Lv 1 and Lv 3). And if that wasn't enough, the Thief Glove (and if you say it takes a LONG time to fully upgrade it *never done that myself*, he will have to keep notes on every single hit he lands, save the game and keep a note to know where he stopped at, etc.)...

-----------------------------

Anyway, I made the vid. Excuse the audio stuttering (it's not like this usually). You have to pause somewhat frequently, since I wanted to keep it brief, but in doing so, the text sometimes has little time to keep up with what's being shown. Still, I hope you can understand this.

Thanks so much for doing this.

I suspected each hit of the string would do different damage. CL does that too.

Aerial doing the same per hit doesn't surprise me either as it's the same attack done three times.
Though now I'm wondering if the low version does 240 per hit as well. This is when you do a very small jump and do the aerial attack low to the ground causing each spin to hit twice (except the final hit I think).

>takes a LONG time to fully upgrade it
No one really knows but it has got to be thousands of strikes. You just stop thinking about it. It's useless to try counting.

> And if that wasn't enough, the Thief Glove (and if you say it takes a LONG time to fully upgrade it *never done that myself*, he will have to keep notes on every single hit he lands, save the game and keep a note to know where he stopped at
Does CE only let you see by damage you deal and subtracting from enemy HP? Is there a way to just see how much points each use of Thief Glove goes up like exp or something?

Or we could could start from fresh, do a few strikes and get the values the same way you did by looking at enemy HP, and see how much more damage say, 5 strikes did, and let's say each was 1000 points of atk added, then load a file where it's maxed or at least very high and see if it still goes up by 1000 per strike.

FFS, CE could keep me entertained for the next 100 years.

>CL does that too
Interesting.

>low version
Oh, didn't know that was a thing. I could do a quick test in a few hours and get back to you.

>thousands of strikes
Ouch.

>Is there a way to just see how much points each use of Thief Glove goes up like exp or something?
If there is an exp system, yes. All we have to do is hit the enemy, and select the 'Increased value' option. If we can't find anything, it could mean two things:

1. Experience goes up every 2,3,4,5 (and so on) number of hits or so, but not every single hit (which means when we look for an increased value after each hit, CE ignores the values that didn't increase, which would include the Thief's Glove if it gets stronger for several hits instead of one).

2. There isn't an experience system, just a formula that makes the damage increase, such as:

Damage = [Base value] + # of hits
If DMG => [MAX value]
Damage = [MAX value]

In which case, we can only look at enemy HP and get the value this way (the painfully slow way).

>use save states
Good idea. I can grab a MAX'd save from GFAQs, like I said, and compare it to mine (where I barely used the glove *or not at all*).

>could keep you entertained
Getting everything you want yourself is an arduous task. It will make you not want to touch the game you were testing for a while. Only the thrill to keep finding new things you didn't know about will keep you going, but after you're finished? That's another story.

>I could do a quick test in a few hours and get back to you.
No problem. Should be interesting.

I'm back. That version still deals the same damage, it seems.

But most importantly, I have big news about Issun's attack power. You really were onto something earlier. Just as you said, there is something that stores Issun's 'progress', so to speak. The value is weird, but still.

Can you tell me if there's anything Issun can't one shot once maxed out? If so, I will be able to tell you everything related about Issun's attacks (base power, the exp if you want it *but as I said, it's weird*, the amount of hits it would take, the increments in attack power, and the damage cap).

Mine can kill everything except Nagis in one hit. You can find them on the final floor of the Kamui Devil Gate.

I'm not sure if I'm at max but they're the only thing that takes me two hits to kill. If I'm not at max I'm very close to it.

If you can kill them in two hits, then chances are that you've maxed out the glove.

I... think this will require further examination. Messing around with the value resulted in the glove gaining attack power in increments of 4, while not using CE to alter the value results in increments of 2. Not sure if at some point it's 4 and then 2.

What I CAN say is that the maximum damage achievable is 390.300. It will not go any further than this. As a bonus, Nagi has a whopping 600.000HP.

I say the value is weird because it seems other things are somehow rolled into the value. Getting Praise increased the 'experience', but didn't affect Issun's power. I started doing 160 damage or so. Which means... in order to max out the thing, you need to play the game for months or even years. Absolutely crazy.

>Not sure if at some point it's 4 and then 2.
I don't understand this. So changing the settings in CE changed the value?
Was this on the same enemy?

>What I CAN say is that the maximum damage achievable is 390.300. It will not go any further than this. As a bonus, Nagi has a whopping 600.000HP.
Adds up pretty much exactly enough for the two hit kill. I definitely have it maxed then.

>praise involved
What? That's bizarre. So when you get praise it adds the same kind of points as just using Issun?

>for months or even years
I don't think so. My file on PS4 is over 100 hours, but not all of it is Thief Glove work.
Unless you mean playing in and off, which I did. But I have no way if telling the amount of time went into just Thief Glove.

I do know you can use it on the wandering scrolls which contain battles. And due to how distance works with drawing, you can position yourself in such a way that Issun instantly hits a scroll and returns despite it bring meters away. This allows for quick building of strength. There's a video on YouTube showing this but I had it saved on my now dead laptop. I think it was all in Japanese too so I can't find it again. Don't remember how I first came across it.

>changing the settings in CE
No, I forced the weird value to be at 0. Issun started doing damage in increments of 2, and the weird value increased by 1 (the latter happens normally, no matter what the current value is).

>on the same enemy
Yes.

>So when you get praise it adds the same kind of points as just using Issun?
Not at all. Issun's points only add 1 to the value, but Praise (in this case) changed the value from 69664787 to 72941587. But Issun still does the same damage you'd expect he'd do with his next attack.

>only 100 hours
Then there's something I'm missing.

>distance and drawing
I surprisingly have a good idea of what you mean. We should be drawing a very small line, but that depends on the position of Amaterasu and the scroll in the camera (which you can change when you want to draw).

I didn't imagine it would gain experience with scrolls, though. But you're right. The experience goes up by 1 just the same.

Sorry, it seems the glove's power does vary per enemy. Must've been tired last night. However, I made a list of damage values against two enemies, so you can see for yourself how it fares in two different scenarios.

(x) -> (x) means the first value was the current experience, and the second was the experience Issun gained after performing his attack. The number on the right side is the actual damage value.

-------------------------------------------

Against that one imp alt seen in my video:

0 -> 1 | 102
1 -> 2 | 104
2 -> 3 | 106
3 -> 4 | 108
4 -> 5 | 110
10 -> 11 | 122
100 -> 101 | 302
1000 -> 1001 | 2.102
3000 -> 3001 | 6.102

Against Izanagi:

0 -> 1 | 306
1 -> 2 | 312
2 -> 3 | 318
3 -> 4 | 324
4 -> 5 | 330
10 -> 11 | 366
100 -> 101 | 906
1.000 -> 1.001 | 6.306
3.000 -> 3.001 | 18.306
5.000 -> 5.001 | 30.306
10.000 -> 10.001 | 60.306
20.000 -> 20.001 | 120.306
30.000 -> 30.001 | 180.306
40.000 -> 40.001 | 240.306
50.000 -> 50.001 | 300.306
60.000 -> 60.001 | 360.306
64.999 -> 65.000 | 390.300

This means that if the imp alt had the same HP as Izanagi, Issun would actually deal less damage to him.

But yeah, in order to max out Issun's power, you need to use him 65000 times. Not sure if using him in the segment where we shrink counts towards his experience, I don't have any saves for that segment. But if it does, then in theory, using him in overworld should also add to the 'experience', given that using him against scrolls somehow counts.

Hope this can be of use to you.

So against the imp it goes up two points, and against Izanagi it goes up 6?

In regards to damage output, yes. Experience? No. It's always +1. So if you were at 3000 experience and used it against Izanagi, it would deal 18K, but against that imp (picking up where you left off, so 3001), it would deal 6104 damage.

In other words, Issun deals different damage to different enemies. But the experience always goes up by 1, no matter what.