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Kingdom Hearts 3

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1Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Kingdom Hearts 3 on Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:41 am


Continued from the JRPG topic.

Had an extensive info dump from SBK, I'm sure he won't mind me sharing it here since it is mostly data. I removed the few points that had spoilers in them for those that want to avoid that kind of stuff. As always, it is a great read. Guy knows his stuff:

-Gameplay kind of feels like an inverted nu GoW. The fundamentals (basic attacking, moving, etc) are ok, but there's no internal logic/consistency in terms of moveset functions and how to different mechanics come together, if that makes sense.

-They messed with basic combo structure. Before the default combo string was 2 normal hits then 1 finisher, the finisher that would come out was contextual (for example if there were multiple enemies around you you'd do the AoE finisher automatically before the single target finisher), and you added more finishers to the string with the ability Finishing Plus. Finishing Plus doesn't exist in KH3, instead if you have special finishers equipped they'll just be added to the end of the string, and will always rotate through finishers in the exact same order (most apparent with the callback transformation using the same three finishers in the same order every string). Conversely, this screws magic, since you're limited to one magic finisher per string. The default string also starts with 3 normal hits

-Physical attacks are super imprecise, Sora will just randomly veer off to attack an enemy in a different direction, you whiff a lot, and there's a lot of awkward pauses in combos to try and make them feel more epic.

-Situation Commands, the big new system, are cancer. They're triangle prompts that appear to do big fancy attack X. What procs them makes zero sense, had Limit Breaks come up just walking into combat without attacking anything and the super Water spell appear while spamming Fire. It makes combat not only random, but far less deliberate (praying to RNGesus for good options to appear) and a nightmare for damage testing (which no one has done yet so there's very little understanding of the relative power of things). As the cherry on top, they cost zero resources to use either.

-To use keyblade transformations you have to land physical combos. Problem is the basic physical string is pretty crappy, so you end up in a situation like Pandora's Disaster gauge where you have to use bad attacks to access a reward that isn't really worth it over spamming other more effective options in the first place (more on that in a second).

-The few transformations I have so far seem decently executed, but have super tiny movesets (like MGR Unique weapon tier). Shield has a super babyfied version of RG (one of the few truly powerful attacks in the game). Was surprised the hammer and drill forms weren't trash, hammer is actually quite quick while having great reach while the drill seems to deal good damage at the cost of being finicky (reasonable).

-The keyblades with 2 transformations got crapped on. Not only do you have to use the first transformation to get to the second (having to build up the transform prompt again via physical attacks and no choice to switch the order transformations appear in), the first transformation doesn't get a 'Limit' and they halved the time you can stay transformed compared to the 1 transformation keyblades (which often have better forms *Ultima is a single transformation*).
-Magic is really boring. For regular Sora, Fire and Blizzard are just homing projectiles that explode with a crappy status on Blizzard, Water is the same thing except it conjures a hitbox around you before firing off (think Fire Storm from Megaman 1), Thunder and Aero are AoE overheads.

-They dropped the ball HARD on how transformations affect magic. Many don't change magic whatsoever. Of those that do (that I have), they turn all spells into the same thing of a different element (Serious Series: Serious Palette Swapping), and sometimes give Thunder/Aero their AoE effect on hit. Keep in mind it doesn't adjust the MP costs of the spells, even though all spells likely deal the same base damage. IE using any spell with the pistol transformation will just fire off two homing projectiles. No extra hitbox on water, no AoE for Thunder, nuthin. Hammer just creates two swirls around you, bazooka and drill fire a single elemental ball, etc.

-The meta for bosses so far is 'spam Fire', as it's the cheapest spell and boss counters are so f****** s*** that when they break out of hitstun they just get caught again immediately. This is the 'superboss' (massive spoilers if you click obviously):

-They locked tons of important crap behind minigames and other such garbage (the reason the guy could spam magic so long is because of an accessory hidden behind taking pictures). Action fans rejoice.

-In general stat crap seems way more important than in KH2. Equipment boosts stats more than it used to, you have to upgrade keyblades, food boosts stats, you have to grind in Lv 1 to prevent completely falling off, etc.
-Most bosses are huge environmental types and either piss easy or massive clusterf***s (the non-Earth Titan fights are really bad). Huge hitboxes and lots of preventing you from getting close/harming them in annoying ways. Mob fights are almost as chaotic, you never feel in control (in a bad way).

-Shotlocks (the Limit replacement) are awful. They're dumbed down in terms of function and utility, and most are just bad (won't hit everything onscreen).

-They snuck in the aimed teleporting from Versus XIII (Nomura's still implementing ideas from it *driving mechas in combat being the other obvious one*).

-They lack of ways to restore MP via stuff like Drive Forms and Summons is a real pisser (forced to chug items).

-The justification for multiple keyblades having the same transformations is having different sets of pre-packaged passive abilities (what the game refers to as Drives). Only 1-2 of them really matter (defensive 'Drive' gets the 'can't die from a hit if I had more than 1 HP beforehand' abilities at any level).

-They shoed-in a smartphone as the game's log and the load screens are made up social media posts (thank God they don't reference a real world company).

-Ultima Weapon has two of the most important passive damage boosting abilities from KH2 (really shilling it).

-The ending boss gauntlets are multi-boss fights against dumbed down versions of KH2 bosses (probably setting the stage to recycle them as super versions in DLC).

-Overall they did better than I thought they would with the fundamentals and the transformations' regular attacks, but I'm mostly annoyed and bored. Playing it at Lv 1, understanding the full moveset better and skipping cutscenes will probably help a bit, but I just want to move onto better games (like LR).

2Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Re: Kingdom Hearts 3 on Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:32 pm


Yeah he's spot as usual with the gameplay stuff, overall I felt. more or less the same though in a way less detailed manner.

>but there's no internal logic/consistency in terms of moveset functions and how to different mechanics come together, if that makes sense.
It feels like every KH would add on new mechanics for better or worse and at least most of the time for all the games I played they at least would make the game revolve around said mechanics giving it some kind of consistency, but KH3 is different it tries to blend up all the gimmicks from previous titles while adding on new ones and instead of having a combat that flows well you're just going around with countless options that don't really flow together and you just spam them whenever you can.

>-The ending boss gauntlets are multi-boss fights against dumbed down versions of KH2 bosses
Which ironically are considered the best bosses in the game because that's how low the bar is lol. The last boss also feels like a lesser version of the 3rd form of Xemnas in KH2(yeah the KH3 boss is only comparable to 1/3 of the last boss in KH2). Extra boss speaks for itself with that video.

>I'm mostly annoyed and bored. Playing it at Lv 1, understanding the full moveset better and skipping cutscenes will probably help a bit, but I just want to move onto better games
I feel the same, the game isn't even like bad as many people make it out to be but time is limited and KH3 doesn't feel worth putting time in and I doubt dlcs or KH3FM will be able to even scrape the surface of fixing all the issues in the game.
The game probably will feel better to repaly if you're a speedrunner since it has lots of options to min/max your run time and it's easy enough to steamroll stuff in the game, the only real downside I can see for them is the cancerous situation commands being tied to rng.

3Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Re: Kingdom Hearts 3 on Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:27 am


Wait critical was a recent update? Anyone tried it yet?

4Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Re: Kingdom Hearts 3 on Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:17 am


Heard it got released pretty recently yeah. Haven't played the game so cannot comment.

5Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Re: Kingdom Hearts 3 on Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:33 am


I'm hearing it's pretty hard. I wonder what SBK and 5does have to say?

6Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Re: Kingdom Hearts 3 on Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:12 pm


He doesn't seem too pleased with it, SBK that is:

They copypasted FM2's damage floor (which is based on Battle Level) then gave low Battle Level foes significantly more health than KH2 endgame/superbosses while nerfing our core options to shill their stupid Situation Commands.

KH3 critical clearly wants you to utilize the RPG elements (synthesis, cooking, etc...) of the game.

IE dumb busywork. God forbid the focus is on interesting ability setups like in FM2.


7Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Re: Kingdom Hearts 3 on Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:08 pm


SBK sent me a private message about it, I'm sure he won't mind me posting it:

"Up to Corona, pretty much everything Osaka said about it was bulls***, almost entirely numbers changes and the extra abilities at the start make no difference (getting the counter attacks early and some negligible passives the likes RPGturds would think are useful). Halved our HP and MP (instead of HP/MP extensions like KH2 so that the beginning wasn't so rough and our MP wasn't gimped), increased the MP charge by 20 f****** seconds, Situation Commands build slower (so we have far less access to transformations), and halved the health regained from Links (whatever). No universal damage increase for us, so it's the same chip damage as Proud. Lot of people are imagining AI changes others point out were already in the base game but didn't notice due to difficulty (placebo effect).

The effect is the opposite of KH2's Crit (showcasing the bad parts of 3 instead of elevating it). The camera is awful, lock-on is constantly breaking (why does transforming into Arrowguns break it but the shields don't), melee is terribad (super high commitment for low damage), you're constantly OHKOed by offscreen s*** (often from very far away), defenses are bad (none of the base counter attacks match up to Counterguard, no higher level dodge rolls, nothing to consistently cancel into i frames mid combo on demand *Reflect is sorely missed*, Quick Run > Air Slide), the aimed teleport barely works, there's tons of s***boxes (streams of projectiles ping ponging you to death, shockwave attacks connecting twice and killing you), almost every boss has major issues (the doll boss has mobs which spawn as you go into different parts of the room, the tell on her spin in place is bad, will randomly attack twice in a row, her 'stinger' will murder you from offscreen, etc).

As predicted, the halved MP (which everyone told them was a bad idea in 0.2) gimps spells while encouraging Links and Shlocklocks, and in combination with gimped SC's means you're waiting longer to be able to deal decent damage while reducing combat variety and being more reliant on the base melee string. Heavily encourages hit and run, Toy Story boss was a couple minutes of potshots to take down its first 4 of 7 health bars before it'd use its Desperation Move (only part of the fight it stays in place, otherwise it slowly floats around which screws up lots of offenses) so I could summon Ralph and one punch it. On top of all this Bizkit made a video a few days before Crit was released whining that everything strong but Ultima was OP, so we can expect more fun nerfs in the future.

DLC is described as two 'episodes' each ending with a boss. DLC superboss is said to 'make you cry' (sure to be a MF level disaster). Adding a new keyblade and Form for free. Wonder if they'll give it unique magic as an atonement for the palette swap issues, but the most likely outcome is a single transformation keyblade with unaltered magic."

As for me I haven't touched it yet(more interested on different games right now), I'd be more interested in trying it out if the difficulty gave us damage modifiers or more viable options in combat instead of butchering meter related skills just to shill the cooldown related bs even harder than they did on original settings. As it stands right now it's just hard for the wrong reasons(think MF fight in BBS), respect for SBK for delving in the mud for the sake of science.

8Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Re: Kingdom Hearts 3 on Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:07 am


Confirmed never touch.

9Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Re: Kingdom Hearts 3 on Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:09 pm


Anything new with this game? It's been a few months.

It got a massive temporary price drop here ($109 down to just $40) so I grabbed it on a recent trade in and ended up paying less that 20 thanks to my remaining store credit.

Doubt I'll touch it for a while though. Still have to play the first two which I have on PS4 too. Just couldn't pass up that low price.

10Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Re: Kingdom Hearts 3 on Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:14 pm


Kayaam is a pretty big fan of it iirc currently, especially after his KH1 run. Other than that, cannot comment.

11Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Re: Kingdom Hearts 3 on Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:05 pm


I'll probably pick up the "Story so Far" collection for PS4 at some point and give the series a try. From an action perspective, which games are recommended?

12Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Re: Kingdom Hearts 3 on Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:20 pm


I'm playing KH1 on proud mode and it's very good. I heard KH2 is even better but other titles, not so much.

13Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Re: Kingdom Hearts 3 on Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:07 am


KH2FM is considered one of the best action-games ever made by a lot of players I know, so definitely that one I'd say.

14Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Re: Kingdom Hearts 3 on Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:54 pm


>Anything new with this game?
They confirmed dlc stuff but that's about it. I think most dedicated players are done with Crit L1 runs for now and there isn't much more to discover as far as strats go.

>which games are recommended?
KH1FM, KH2FM, no reason to touch the vanilla entries. 3 is a step down on every regard from 2 but still a solid game.

Kingdom hearts 3D and Birth by Sleep are lesser entries but still there if you're interested.

Chain of Memories is... different but it's pretty okay if the gameplay looks interesting for you.

Every other title is just optional, no need to play any of the games for the plot because it is so convoluted and even a fucking mobile game is considered canon.

1 and 2fm are must plays.
3 isn't as good but still worth it.
3d and BBS are ehhh but the gameplay is the closest you'll get to the mainline entries.
Chain of Memories is okay if the gameplay sounds interesting to you.
Every other title is optional.

15Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Re: Kingdom Hearts 3 on Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:49 pm


Thanks for the breakdown, I'll probably get the collection then. I've heard the plot is ridiculous so I doubt I'll pay too much attention to it.

I've just had a look at the full list of games included in the Story so Far set, and the titles of them are absolutely hilarious. Just out of curiosity - what is the correct way to pronounce "Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days"?

16Kingdom Hearts 3 Empty Re: Kingdom Hearts 3 on Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:03 pm


Apparently, it's "Three Five Eight Days over Two"

Fuck that. I'm calling it "Three Fifty-Eight over Two Days"

Or 179 days.

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