Ghost of Tsushima

"Here at Team Ninja, where we have worked on a lot of sword fighting action, we were really impressed with the game overall, and strive to create a title with as much ‘honor’ as Ghost of Tsushima.”

Nothing on mechanics was mentioned.

What is honor?

Has anyone else here played GoT and NG?

I was fine with Ayslum for what it was. Never got around to trying Mad Max's fisticuffs. ME:SoM struck my fancy, but the Nemesis system was a big part of that (novel). I didn't bother with the sequel. Not even sure I played Arkham City at all (let alone Knight). In terms of a combat system, it certainly didn't shine with bosses generally speaking. It was about as close to a Dynasty Warriors (dressed up like LotR) as I'll ever get. That it had things to deny myself for challenge runs gave it flavor and challenge otherwise lacking, but that's about it. Souls is good stuff. I haven't seen anything about GoT that was able to make me want to play it. I'll probably watch a speedrun before long.

The talk of RPS is quite unappealing. Likewise the stealth, but then it was child's play to exploit in ME:SoM (still enjoyed using it). That wasn't exactly a game about well crafted zones so much as just hunting special snowflakes down. Only terrible players got the 'memorable' histories with Uruks the game was focused on. Didn't really care about branding at all. Beasts mastery wasn't well developed and the armies are sloppy (in terms of commanding them, controlling growth, etc.). I prefer to work alone anyway.

So yeah, to elaborate more on my feelings, I totally understand why someone would not be as high in praise on Ghost of Tsushima as I am.  Feelings on games and combat systems are all subjective obviously.  

In the end the game is a standard AAA open-world action adventure game.  So I don't mean to overhype it.  If you hate standard AAA open world games, you will probably not like Ghost.  I normally do not like nor play AAA games very much at all, and normally hate most open world games, so Ghost surprised me in how much I loved it.  However, I am a huge sucker and fan for any game with a feudal Japan setting about samurai/ninja so I am already biased in that way.  I think anyone would admit however even if not loving the game that the game's beauty and art direction is just stellar, and it was clearly made with care and passion....this is something I can appreciate and is apparent when playing it.  But again it is nothing overly new or revolutionary at all.

For what it is, to me it has the best, most enjoyable and refined combat I have ever played in a game of it's kind outside of more technical pure action/hack and slash games.  So, I don't mean to compare it to Ninja Gaiden directly in that way---it is not a fair comparison....Ghost's combat does not come close to the depth or challenge/skill ceiling of NG.  But I fully recognize it is not meant to and did not expect it to.  But, for me the combat in Ghost has a respectable amount of depth and is now second only to Ninja Gaiden in terms of pure fun and enjoyment, and in terms of how it feels.

Just to try and articulate this better---I am not a super technical oriented fan of action games.  The NG trilogy are my favorite games of all time due to not just the depth and technical nature of the combat but almost equally in how the combat in NG feels.  It is visceral and lethal, and the animation work reinforces this immersion.  

For this reason, my favorite action/combat after NG up until now was Metal Gear Rising and the Nioh games.  Sekiro now as well, although it took me a long while to warm to Sekiro and I still have some significant reservations on Sekiro's combat design/philosophy even though I now love the game.  The common theme here is combat that just feels fucking good, is visceral and feels deadly.  In contrast, I do not like Dark Souls/Soulsborne combat (slow, cumbersome and just does not feel good to me) and I also am not a fan of Devil May Cry types games/combat.  I have huge respect for the depth/technicality of DMC combat but to me combat design and feel is equally important, and I just can't get past DMC combat feeling so "game-y", a juggle fest with no truly visceral impact or sense of being lethal.  It's about looking stylish and cool, being creative with giant combos, enemies are sponges, etc.....which is great but just not what I am into.  

When you read interviews with the Ghost of Tsushima devs, they stress that a key to their combat design was "respecting the lethality of the blade."  This is fucking music to my ears when describing a combat system.  And they achieve this in Ghost combat---it feels gritty, grounded, bloody and just incredibly good/fun to control, especially on higher difficulties.  The combat animations in Ghost are very immersive and some of the best I've ever seen...again second only to NG in my mind.  Controls, inputs and animations all feel very precise, and you can cancel any animation with block/parry which is awesome when you are fighting against a large group in the game (which is the norm).

So yeah....sorry for the small novel here.  I understand why others would not like the game but I wanted to try and explain more fully why I love it.  Comes down to what you are looking for and your expectations I think of what makes good combat.

Oh and on top of all that, the game has a free multiplayer expansion which is just incredibly fun (two person co-op missions and 4 person co-op horde wave survival).

Fair points. It's refreshing to see AAA titles get praise for their gameplay from an action perspective. Combat can still be enjoyable and somewhat grounded in reality. Things like the animations, sounds, the feeling of feedback etc. can contribute a lot to the experience.

I'd quite like to try this game myself, but I'll probably wait 'til I get a PS5 for the resolution/framerate improvements, whenever that may be.

It's too expensive to buy based on little mechanical info.

Though I did read something on builds and poison which sounded promising.

Yeah, unless I can find it under a significant discount, I'll pass too.

> Too expensive to buy based on little mechanical info
True. I always buy physical if possible for games like this, so I can sell them on if I don't think much of them. Gonna take this approach here.

Birdman wrote:It's too expensive to buy based on little mechanical info.

Though I did read something on builds and poison which sounded promising.

What questions do you have on the game/mechanics? I am happy to answer as best as I can.

Read Infinity Divide's post (44).

Can you confirm or deny any of it?

To me, it looks like what he said. A basic stance system that only exists to justify the usual fast guy, big shield guy, etc. Traffic light system. Magnet attacks (Arkham/Spidey with no real ranges or spacing).

Hi everyone, long time lurker, first time poster here. I actually never knew this forum existed untill Royta told me about it on twitter. Great place to talk about action games. I had to register and post about Ghost though because I need to clear up some misconceptions about this incredible game.

EDIT: I waited to play this on a PS5 as I feel that action games cannot be played enjoyably at 30 fps.
I usually only play action games at 60 fps hence why I waited 6 months. If you have a ps4 and don't mind the frame rate then that is fine but if you are a frame rate freak like me, I would highly recommend you wait and play this on a PS5 instead.

I'm going to get straight to the point. Let's start with why I love this game:

1. A true Samurai game, FINALLY. To be honest I was waiting on a  true next gen Samurai game since Onimusha and Way of the Samurai died about 15 years ago. I loved those games and I feel WotS is very underrated. I just wanted a third person action adventure game with a KATANA in my hand, I mean is that really too much to ask for? well, apparently it was, untill now. This game nails giving you the true Samurai experience.

The setting, the characters, the swordplay, the lore and most importantly Jin Sakai a true Samurai through and through but he has to fight his inner samurai spirit to become the Ghost. A unique take and interesting to play through and slowly watch Jin resort to ninja-like tactics to overcome the powerful mongol empire.

2. It's not another Soulsborne clone, thank the LORD. Since Soulsborne games were the new "thing" every developer out there wants to make a souls clone. Some of my favourite franchises like God of War and Darksiders have fallen victim to this copycat nonsense and it's really pissed me off.

Let Soulsborne be Soulsborne and let classic action slashers be classic action slashers. No need to cross breed them. Ghost is it's own thing, it doesn't desperately try hard to be something it's not.

3. GAMEPLAY PART 1: Hit detection and enemy reaction. In Ghost, if you slash to the right, the enemy will react by stumbling to the right. If your final blow is a slice to the throat, the enemy will hold his blood ridden throat and fall to the ground. Some games (Witcher 3 and some soulsborne games) you will slash away at an enemy and the enemy will just stand there, no reaction. The hit detection is sublime, accompanied with the feedback from the controller, you can really feel your sword piercing through opponents.

4. GAMEPLAY PART 2: NO FREE FLOW COMBAT. I've been reading this thread and was surprised at some people comparing it to Spiderman and the Arkham games' combat. I'm going to be blunt here, I really hate the Batman games, primarily because the combat is free flow, same with that LOTR mordor game and Assassins creeds. Spider-man was tolerable as the excellent web slinging and dodge mechanics saved it, just about. That auto-combo nonsense is not my thing.

in Ghost, you have light attack and heavy attack, not one button to bash away at and go auto combo jumping between 10 different fools lol. Heavy attack is stance specific so for example the moon stance incorporates 2 side kicks and a downwards slash. Holding heavy attack in this stance will unleash a powerful rotating slash attack. So, every stance will have a 3 hit combo heavy attack and a "hold heavy attack" power move. Your light attacks remain the same in every stance, which I don't mind because the move list is pretty extensive if you include  all the the 4 stances' moves and special attacks "pressing 2 buttons together" The combat is tactical. You cannot button bash to victory. Timing of your attacks, blocking, parrying and dodging need to be mastered in order to excel, especially on higher difficulties. By the way you need to play on HARD (1st playthrough) to really appreciate the combat.

4. GAMEPLAY PART 3: PARRYING. The parrying feels fantastic. it takes a while to master "perfect parry" and when you unlock parrying spears, it simply makes the game a joy to play. Deflecting swords not only feels great but actually looks phenomenal too.

5. Animation and Motion Capture of Jin. SP mo capped some of the most skilled sowrdsman in Japan, experts with vast amounts of experience in the fine arts of wielding the Katana and it shows. Jin's animations/mo cap are 10/10.

His footwork, his technique, his grip, his movement, everything is flawless. In my opinion, this is what makes or breaks a game for me when it comes to combat action games. NGII had some of the best combat animations ever created, TO THIS DAY. Ryu's technique and movement is impeccable, same thing with Jin, I can't really fault the animations one bit.

6. BLOOD SPATTER: Let me start off by saying, the blood is red lol No lava (GOW 2018) NO PURPLE MIST (NGS2) none of that stupidity...it's dark red and there's LOTS OF IT.

Now, getting on to the blood spatter, if you slice say for eg, downwards, the spatter will follow your blade then splash on top the ground. Sideways and the spatter will follow your blade and spatter on an enemy for example. Pierce through someone's chest and Jin's face will be covered in blood instantly. The splatter mechanic is done really well and makes you feel like you are inflicting HELL on your opponents. In Ghost stance (kind of like a devil trigger) majority of your attacks de-limb foes, same goes for special attacks on low health enemies.

7. Audio and sound effect design: Commonly overlooked by many, imo this is what makes you "feel" the combat. Onimusha nailed the sound of a Katana ripping through flesh, it sounded brutal and oh so satisfying. Ghost takes this and ramps it up. You can hear every slash, every stab, your Katana piercing through hearts, there's even a different sound effect for a throat slice where the enemy will gargle in pain due to the blood spewing from his throat, rather than screaming in pain, meticulous attention to detail here. This immerses you into the combat intensely and truly makes you feel like a total badass, award winning sound design. If you have a home theatre 5.1.2 system or similar like mine, then you are in for a real treat.

8. Combat is not over the shoulder. Referring back to GOW 2018 I kind of hate the way the camera is just stuck behind Kratos the entire game, a huge dislike of mine and thankfully Ghost does not incorporate this system.

9. METICLUOUS ATTENTION TO DETAIL:
   
        1. Mo capping real-life swordsman. The quality if the animations shines because of this, no  
            doubt. SP really took that extra step, travelled to Japan and mocapped top martial Arts
           sword instructors from the Tenshin Ryu School of Martial Arts....and I'm so glad they did.
        2. Ability to manually sheathe and unsheathe your Katana. I mean, need I say more? what an
            awesome feature to have. After a bloody battle, swiping right on the touchpad to clean the
            blood off your blade and sheathe it, amazing.
        3. Japanese dub. If you're a real samurai nut, then yeah this one's for you. Did they need to
             include it? No. Is it incredible that they did it though? hell yes.
        4. Kurosawa mode. Paying homage to the legendary director himself.
       
There's just too many list so I might save these for another post as this one is long as it is. Let's now talk about why this game may not be for you:

1. THIS IS NOT NG OR DMC. I think some people expected some type of arcade fast-paced combat action game, this is definitely nothing like that. I would say this is more akin to a samurai/katana combat simulator with splashes of arcade combat thrown in.

2. You expected Tenchu from the stealth mechanics. Although the stealth is good, it's just kind of added in as a bonus and to mix up the mission structure.

3. You are a soulsborne fan. Talking to a couple of soulsborne fans and they do seem to prefer bloodborne and other games to Ghost, they don't really like Ghost as much but I would say keep an open mind and give it a try at least.

4. You cannot be bothered unlocking your move set. It takes while to unlock your stances and it is a slow progression. I actually love this as it makes you appreciate what you have worked hard for but some may find it annoying and lose patience.

That's it really, if you're on the fence like me before playing Ghost, give it a go, you might end up loving it. I was afraid of it being a free flow combat clone with no depth but boy was I wrong. GOTY 2020 HANDS DOWN.

>Samurai game
This reminds me. The focus on the katana is not appropriate. It should be about polearms (for melee *secondary*). Being on foot is questionable, too. Should prioritize the horse (and using a bow). Dirty tactics (assassin *ninja* shit) is fair play. Mystical stuff probably not so much. Don't know the game well enough to say if it invokes these matters.

>In Ghost, if you slash to the right, the enemy will react by stumbling to the right

See, this is the kind of mechanical shit that should be screamed from the rooftops. Now I'm actually interested.

>If your final blow is a slice to the throat, the enemy will hold his blood ridden throat and fall to the ground.

This, not so much. Nothing more than a death animation. Unless you can use their standing body for some other purpose? Kick into others perhaps?

>your attacks de-limb foes

Is this only visual? Does it have any mechanical purpose? Do enemies change behaviour?

> some people comparing it to Spiderman and the Arkham games' combat

Not because of free flow combat. We were talking about how the character makes contact with his attacks.

>I think some people expected

Definitely wasn't us.

>mechanical purpose with delimbing
Dead Space and NG2 come to mind. Limb damage elsewhere is pretty limited. Something not often enough explored.

Great first post here Rayyan! Cheers for joining in on the conversation and welcome to the forum :)

I've read most of the talk on this game here now and I think one element that stands out is that Ghosts has one key feature down that's hard to put into words and that's the "feel" of it. I've always struggled with this, as some games can just "feel" great to play even though mechanically they aren't too interesting or noteworthy. Could be a combination of a lot of factors i.e. sound, controls, atmosphere, music, sfx etc. same as the 'feel' being off in some games despite them being mechanically interesting like I've had with a ton like Bick's favourite Lord of Shadows.

So yeah, I totally get it!


> it isn't 'x'
This is a part that does make me do a second take though. It 'not being' something generally isn't a point in a game's favour I'd say. While it might make it refreshing by comparison to other games perhaps, having a game be "not that other one" and degrading other titles to praise another tends to just mean people either don't know why their game is good, or it just isn't at all by my experience.

> delimb NG/DS
Don't forget Metal Gear Rising and Neverdead. Binary Domain also toyed with it as of course our favoured son Vanquish. Shadow of Rome also had it in a funny way, not only did it change the enemy moveset, it also allowed you to pick up the lost limb and attack enemies with it. If you cut off their head you could use it to scare enemies. Fun detail!

Easily one of my favourite mechanics though when done right, adds so much to the game's flavour.

>delimb

Lollipop Chainsaw. But only removing legs changed anything from what I remember. You couldnt delimb certain zombie types at all. Like cops. I guess if you could you'd remove their gun and baton rendering them useless.

Welcome Rayyan! Good post, it's nice to see AAA titles get praised during an era where most of us expect very little from them. It would be interesting to hear more comments on how much delimb-ing enemies impacts the gameplay, or if its just a cosmetic thing. As mentioned a couple of times, "feel" can do a lot with a game, but it usually doesn't save a game with bad combat, so I hope that the praise for the title is a good sign.

> Its not "x" (Soulsborne in this case)
I assumed all Rayyan was trying to say is that it isn't just an imitation trying to capitalise on another trendy game's structure (at least for combat). I'm certainly no authority on "Soulsborne" titles but as I understand it, all of the best ones have been made by From Software (unless you want to count Nioh as one), whereas imitators like The Surge haven't been as well received. Its also been noted that the GoW reboot seemed to take some influences from Souls combat (betraying it's identity in the process), and we know how that turned out. I interpreted this remark as praising the game for being happy to do its own thing.

> it's not 'x'
That's more than fair! Hadn't looked at it that way.

> soulsbourne
There's quite a lot of them that are liked like Salt&Sanctuary, Remnant, Surge2, Hollow Knight has been called one a lot too for whatever reason, Dead Cell, Blasphemous etc. Mostly indie. A big AAA failure is that they just insert some random aspects from Souls titles like bonfires and call it a day.

> it's its own thing
I think that alone is commendable. One of my main reasons to praise Metal Gear Rising when it released was that it was a clone of nothing. It was totally fresh and unique, while everything under the sun was aping DMC/GoW. Can imagine a similar feeling being felt here!

Those may be some of the reasons that people can’t get into it, but for me it was more technical reasons regarding the combat itself. It not being NG/DMC means nothing to me since I want games to be different and neither of those are my favorite anyway. I’m also beyond tired of Soulsborne(as much as I love Souls) so I don’t think that’s going to be a factor for a lot of players either.

The combat for me just didn’t evolve or get interesting. From hour 5 through to hour 40, I felt as if I didn’t learn anything or develop new strategies, aside from cycling through the occasional new tool I got. There’s a lot of attention to detail in terms of aesthetics, but not really in terms of mechanics imo.

But yes, I will say the game definitely “feels” great. The visuals, controller rumble, sound effects, the slowmo after a standoff, etc are all satisfying to take part in. I just wish the game had more going on under the hood.

Infinity_Divide wrote:
The combat for me just didn’t evolve or get interesting. From hour 5 through to hour 40, I felt as if I didn’t learn anything or develop new strategies, aside from cycling through the occasional new tool I got. There’s a lot of attention to detail in terms of aesthetics, but not really in terms of mechanics imo.

But yes, I will say the game definitely “feels” great. The visuals, controller rumble, sound effects, the slowmo after a standoff, etc are all satisfying to take part in. I just wish the game had more going on under the hood.

I agree 100% with RayyanHayabusa's post (welcome man!).

@Infinity_Divide, I would really encourage you to play the game on higher difficulties. The default Normal mode is basically an Easy mode for players experienced in action games. The game really starts to shine in Hard and Lethal difficulties (and Hard+, Lethal+).

Not to show too much, but I thought it might be interesting for some to see the extensive skill trees in the game.  See the following photos:






Also, just as a small example of the insane level of detail and precision in the combat animations, see this GIF linked here showing a variety of just-dodges which require very precise timing along with various stance changes.  At the 17 second mark, you will see he switches to the best stances to use against spearmen which staggers the enemy (this is the main benefit/purpose of the stance system---certain stances are more effective than others in staggering certain enemy types):

https://twitter.com/Much118x/status/1285584220656672773?s=20

I've watched full videos of every skill, stance and nothing really stood out except for the kick and shoulder ram.

Gregorinho wrote:Welcome Rayyan! Good post, it's nice to see AAA titles get praised during an era where most of us expect very little from them. It would be interesting to hear more comments on how much delimb-ing enemies impacts the gameplay, or if its just a cosmetic thing. As mentioned a couple of times, "feel" can do a lot with a game, but it usually doesn't save a game with bad combat, so I hope that the praise for the title is a good sign.

> Its not "x" (Soulsborne in this case)
I assumed all Rayyan was trying to say is that it isn't just an imitation trying to capitalise on another trendy game's structure (at least for combat). I'm certainly no authority on "Soulsborne" titles but as I understand it, all of the best ones have been made by From Software (unless you want to count Nioh as one), whereas imitators like The Surge haven't been as well received. Its also been noted that the GoW reboot seemed to take some influences from Souls combat (betraying it's identity in the process), and we know how that turned out. I interpreted this remark as praising the game for being happy to do its own thing.

Thanks Greogorinho, it's great to finally join here.

You nailed exactly what I was trying to say regarding "it's not x" thanks for clearing that up for Royta

Birdman wrote:>In Ghost, if you slash to the right, the enemy will react by stumbling to the right

See, this is the kind of mechanical shit that should be screamed from the rooftops. Now I'm actually interested.

>If your final blow is a slice to the throat, the enemy will hold his blood ridden throat and fall to the ground.

This, not so much. Nothing more than a death animation. Unless you can use their standing body for some other purpose? Kick into others perhaps?

>your attacks de-limb foes

Is this only visual? Does it have any mechanical purpose? Do enemies change behaviour?

> some people comparing it to Spiderman and the Arkham games' combat

Not because of free flow combat. We were talking about how the character makes contact with his attacks.

>I think some people expected

Definitely wasn't us.

"This, not so much. Nothing more than a death animation. Unless you can use their standing body for some other purpose? Kick into others perhaps?"

No it works the same as NGII where if you press Y on a low health enemy, Ryu will execute them. In Ghost it kind of works different and is a tad more fluid and realistic.

"Is this only visual? Does it have any mechanical purpose? Do enemies change behaviour?"

No, they just die. I wanted way more de-limbing like NGII but it sadly only happens on certain special attacks and is pretty rare. Enemies do change behaviour though, sometimes if you pull off stand off executions, perfect parry counters etc some enemies get terrified and drop to their knees, some will try running away lol


"Not because of free flow combat. We were talking about how the character makes contact with his attacks."

Expand more on this please as I don't understand.

I forgot to add, you can execute enemies crawling on the floor by piercing through them downwards with the Katana just like Onimusha and NG.

Rarely do sword fighting/melee games incorporate this, imo it should be done in all of them.

> some enemies get terrified and drop to their knees, some will try running away lol

Wait what??? There's a fear mechanic? So if you pull off something impressive or vicious they react. That's good news.

>In Ghost it kind of works different

Can you choose where to delimb?

>Expand more on this please as I don't understand.

I mean how when the character is within a certain range and you attack they auto lunge or dash at the enemy. Usually with a different animation. From there you link into other enemies. Like how Batman zips over to the next. It removes spacing/weapon range and I think it sucks. Only give Asylum a free pass because it was either the first to do it or the first I played. Never liked it in other games.

>enemies crawling on the floor

Can they do anything? I assume this causes fear in others? Could set up executions to scatter enemies.

>imo it should be done in all of them.

What? Delimb?

Roy: >LoS
Was never able to make myself finish it (or even get far from the start).

>MGR:R
Right, right.  I still wish Dante's Inferno had the system (being of the same blood as NG while being from the studio of Dead Space made me hopeful until I played the demo *clear it wouldn't happen*).  SWFU2 expanding to have non-instakill application of such a thing would have been quite the advancement.  Wasn't to be.

>scare enemies
If only there were gorgon heads to claim as weapons, eh?  Scare 'em stiff.  Stone cold.

>quite a lot
More than I care to name (or remember).

Birdman: >LPC had it
Ah, yes.  Zombies.  I might have known.  Forgot about this title completely.

>it was limited
Bah.  Would have been fantastic to fully develop.  Doesn't get much more ideal than Return of the Living Dead style zambees.

>spacing
The system is a pain in the ass when trying to have control (even before enemies pull up in your face from downtown).

Ray: >terror
>flee
Reminds me of ME:SoM.  Had fun with this exploitable mechanic in tandem with 'Brutalize' (it would inspire fear, but the fear state opens people to stealth executions...which it was *got out of hand in a hurry*).

>grounded state attacks
Too often overlooked, yes.  SWFU1 had one.  GoW has yet to bother even for a grab state (I want to fling fools by their feet like King).  Probably afraid casuals will NEVER use it (rationale for most design choices).

>it was limited

In that if you could cut off arms it was just for show. It was more like at the elbows so they still had something left to whack you with. Attacks stayed the same.

If you cut off legs they'd crawl and could swipe or ankle grab. Possible to have other crawlers join in and group grab. When grounded you can do the down stab which has iframes and is a guaranteed kill.

Just remembered the cheerleaders. If you cut their legs off they got better. Not necessarily stronger, just harder to hit. They'd stand on their hands and could dodge and jump your attacks. You want to dizzy and wipe them out immediately instead of hacking at them, though you shouldn't be at risk of removing their legs if you aren't using low attacks.. I need to consult my notes, but I believe you can't dizzy them when legless. Nick Tickets might work. Don't recall anything though.

Birdman wrote:> some enemies get terrified and drop to their knees, some will try running away lol

Wait what??? There's a fear mechanic? So if you pull off something impressive or vicious they react. That's good news.

>In Ghost it kind of works different

Can you choose where to delimb?

>Expand more on this please as I don't understand.

I mean how when the character is within a certain range and you attack they auto lunge or dash at the enemy. Usually with a different animation. From there you link into other enemies. Like how Batman zips over to the next. It removes spacing/weapon range and I think it sucks. Only give Asylum a free pass because it was either the first to do it or the first I played. Never liked it in other games.

>enemies crawling on the floor

Can they do anything? I assume this causes fear in others? Could set up executions to scatter enemies.

>imo it should be done in all of them.

What? Delimb?

"Can you choose where to delimb?"

No the de-limbing is random, like I said it's rare and nothing on the level of NGII and MGR. However, in new game+ I heard there's a charm you unlock that enables super gore, like excess amounts of blood and gore, this may introduce more de-limbing but I haven't unlocked it yet.

"I mean how when the character is within a certain range and you attack they auto lunge or dash at the enemy. Usually with a different animation. From there you link into other enemies. Like how Batman zips over to the next. It removes spacing/weapon range and I think it sucks. Only give Asylum a free pass because it was either the first to do it or the first I played. Never liked it in other games."

No Ghost does not have this mechanic, on normal or easy mode this MIGHT be the case but I can't see it all on hard. Auto lunge and zipping from one enemy to another is what I dislike heavily, the main reason why I haven't played through ANY batman game. Spacing/weapon range is definitely the most part of Ghost's combat, especially with spear enemies. They have unblockable drive attacks which you have to dodge and counter, if you pull off a perfect dodge you are rewarded with a sweet execution right through the enemy's stomach.

Range and spacing also comes into serious effect with brutes. They have huge weapon range so you have to dodge and roll around them and then when it's clear, strike.

"Can they do anything? I assume this causes fear in others? Could set up executions to scatter enemies."

Depends on the enemy. Some will just stay crawling back in fear but some you will have to execute quick as they sometimes grow a pair of balls again and get up to fight lol I haven't played with the fear mechanic much but I do know there are unlocks where you get to strike fear into multiple enemies.

The stand off mode is actually unique I don't think I've seen this mechanic implemented in a game before. Here's how it works:

1.Walk into a group of enemies before swords are drawn
2.Press up on the d-pad to initiate a stand off
3. Hold triangle button and Jin will grip his katana, still sheathed.
4. Wait for enemy to react. Now, some enemies will feint about once, some will feint a strike about 3 times so you have to be vigilant of their arms. Your response time has to be accurate.
5. Just when the enemy is delivering his actual blow, you have to release triangle and Jin will slice their throats. If you get it wrong, you nearly get 1 hit killed as your life bar drains to bare minimum.
6. You can unlock multiple executions so If another enemy is close by and he lunges in, you can press triangle and if timed correctly Jin will also slice his throat. Usually after this a 3rd enemy will drop on his backside in fear lol

Excellent mechanic and it never gets old.

Birdman wrote:

I mean how when the character is within a certain range and you attack they auto lunge or dash at the enemy. Usually with a different animation. From there you link into other enemies. Like how Batman zips over to the next. It removes spacing/weapon range and I think it sucks. Only give Asylum a free pass because it was either the first to do it or the first I played. Never liked it in other games.

Yuck, I would absolutely hate that too. I have never played the Batman games so also wasn't clear you were talking about. Definitely nothing like this in Ghost----precision in distance and spacing in the combat is a big deal.

Just to chime in on the gore/dismemberment, Rayyan is exactly right in that it is more just a finishing move on a weakened enemy if you are using a special technique. No change in mechanics. Dismemberment in the game is basically limited to an arm being cut off or decapitation (again specific to a certain technique). There is a charm in New Game+ (Charm of Carnage) that increases the gore amount but alas does not add extra dismemberment---it just adds NG2 levels of blood/gore...it's cool:)

I was first a bit disappointed there was not more dismemberment. Having this kind of visceral, immediate feedback to your attacks where you tangibly feel/see the lethality of your attacks is a normally big deal for me in combat games. But, Ghost is the first game where I came to actually not miss the dismemberment---it just does such a great job in how the katana feels when cutting, the blood effects, the animations, the sound/audio....it just feels, looks and sounds so brutal and satisfying when you play. Given the game's tone/aesthetic is meant to be more grounded, I do think they actually made the right call in not going overboard with dismemberment as it is not particularly realistic and runs the risk of being a bit over the top---for super ninja Ryu body parts should fly in my book, but for Jin who is more just a regular guy/trained samurai with no special powers you would not see crazy dismemberment when cutting armored Mongols. A welcome surprise to myself as I almost always hate how most combat games don't have the blood/dismemberment visceral action that NG has.

Birdman: >amended coverage
Noted. Slightly more to it, but not quite all I'd hope for from such beings.

Ray: >get their act together if given a chance to recompose
That right? They sure never do in ME:SoM.

>stand off
Reminds a bit of cowboy antics. Both in pop culture (like pirates and ninjas) are more myth than fact.

Sounds like something I'd get on sale. Will have to wait until then. It's still $99 here.

Birdman wrote:Sounds like something I'd get on sale. Will have to wait until then. It's still $99 here.

Wow...seriously? yeah I'd wait...you can get a console for $99 lol Plenty of games to keep you occupied for the time being.

Watched a few videos.

He definitely does do a few steps before attacking to close distance. Similar to The Witcher 3. This is what I was talking about. Batman is an extreme example because he flies 10 meters to a guy across the room but it's the same thing. The game deals with closing that small distance for you. Not a fan of this. Doesn't destroy a game but I'd rather not have it.

Birdman wrote:Watched a few videos.

He definitely does do a few steps before attacking to close distance. Similar to The Witcher 3. This is what I was talking about. Batman is an extreme example because he flies 10 meters to a guy across the room but it's the same thing. The game deals with closing that small distance for you. Not a fan of this. Doesn't destroy a game but I'd rather not have it.

Hmm, honestly it does not seem this way when you are playing it. This would annoy the shit out of me if it did.

The only time this happens as you describe is sometimes with the assassination/stealth attack animation....so if you initiate the stealth attack but then the enemy moves away from you before you animation completes, Jin slides up and closes with the enemy to complete the kill. This is the only time....

What is key to know is that there are certain moves that do involve a long animation, steps to close the distance as part of the move itself----for example, heavy attack for Wind Stance is a longer distance attack....this can be a reason why to choose this attack if you need to close the distance with an enemy. I suspect what you are seeing is this....not an automatic thing that happens all the time but does sometimes happen if it is specific to the kind of attack animation.

Hicho9 wrote:

Birdman wrote:Watched a few videos.

He definitely does do a few steps before attacking to close distance. Similar to The Witcher 3. This is what I was talking about. Batman is an extreme example because he flies 10 meters to a guy across the room but it's the same thing. The game deals with closing that small distance for you. Not a fan of this. Doesn't destroy a game but I'd rather not have it.

Hmm, honestly it does not seem this way when you are playing it. This would annoy the shit out of me if it did.

The only time this happens as you describe is sometimes with the assassination/stealth attack animation....so if you initiate the stealth attack but then the enemy moves away from you before you animation completes, Jin slides up and closes with the enemy to complete the kill. This is the only time....

What is key to know is that there are certain moves that do involve a long animation, steps to close the distance as part of the move itself----for example, heavy attack for Wind Stance is a longer distance attack....this can be a reason why to choose this attack if you need to close the distance with an enemy. I suspect what you are seeing is this....not an automatic thing that happens all the time but does sometimes happen if it is specific to the kind of attack animation.

Thanks man, you hit the nail on the head with this post.

The steps taken is actually part of the animation of the move itself. I can see why it may look like an auto lunge because I thought it was like that too when watching videos and not actually playing the game.

It's similar to NGII if you hold Y for example, ryu will lunge forward towards an enemy, or in DMC where Dante uses stinger.

So for eg. In Ghost if you hold triangle in stone stance, Jin will raise his sword and lunge forward towards an enemy because it's a power move to quickly close the distance and stab through the chest.

>Jin slides up and closes with the enemy to complete the kill. This is the only time

Pretty sure I'm seeing it happen on attacks that aren't stealth. They're all right there face to face and it happens from looks like basic slashes.

>The steps taken is actually part of the animation of the move itself

I'm seeing the steps not happen if close enough so it looks like the game compensates with extra steps.

>It's similar to NGII if you hold Y for example, ryu will lunge forward towards an enemy, or in DMC where Dante uses stinger.

Not the same thing as what I'm talking about. You can have some mobility as part of the move and that's fine, but what I'm talking about is games where the same command can produce a different animation (though not always) and moving in depending on your distance.

Tell me if that's what I'm seeing in this video at the start. He does the running stab a few times. But what I'm looking at is around 9 seconds in. He parries, and it blows the guy back. He then runs in a few steps and does what appears to be a quick, very normal looking slash.

>Neverdead delimbs.

Had a Neverdead copy in my amazon cart for the majority of a morning recently.

Birdman wrote:

Tell me if that's what I'm seeing in this video at the start. He does the running stab a few times. But what I'm looking at is around 9 seconds in. He parries, and it blows the guy back. He then runs in a few steps and does what appears to be a quick, very normal looking slash.

Yes and no.

Again, a very specific circumstance. What you see at the 9 second mark after the perfect parry and the immediate follow up attack is actually right around the outer limit of the normal range of that basic attack. But, the game does give a very small spacing assist in this specific circumstance---namely, the immediate follow up attack after doing a perfect parry against a higher-level enemy who is not one-shot killed by the perfect parry throat cut. With stronger enemies, they get staggered back by the perfect parry throat cut as you see there and the game does very slightly pull Jin in for an immediate follow up cut (if you press attack immediately after the throat cut). It is very minor though and in this instance it feels appropriate when you are playing---after you pull off a perfect parry against a high-level enemy and they are staggered, you want/feel you should be able to quickly enter for a follow up attack and not be disadvantaged for doing the perfect parry.

The only other specific circumstance like this I can think of is with perfect dodge---you will see in the video there is a spacing assist if you pull off a perfect dodge but are a little bit further away from the enemy. It will still pull you in for the perfect dodge gut stab.

>you want/feel you should be able to quickly enter

I don't feel that. But as long as it's not happening on every attack it might be ok. Will just have to wait and see I guess.

>>In Ghost, if you slash to the right, the enemy will react by stumbling to the right

Watched a few videos to see this in action. Looks like I misunderstood. Did you mean they simply have an animation of getting hit from different directions? I'm not seeing any stumble at all. Aside from stumbling backward.

I thought you meant a proper hit state, some kind of stumbling property from being hit from certain directions. Like a directional knockback. But from what I've seen it's just a regular hit stun.

I get what you mean in that it looks fancier then say, DMC or other action games where you can do 5 hits with a sword that's hitting from every angle and the enemy takes hit stun with the same animation, but mechanically it doesn't matter what it looks like if it doesn't actually do anything different.

Don't like that stand off thing at all. Looks mindnumbingly boring. Don't think I'd ever use that.

On the plus side, I saw poison darts. That's how I'd prefer to play in an open world game. Loved poisoning in AC2. What does it do in GoT exactly? Only saw a quick example.

How many arrows and darts can you carry?

Recently beat the game on hard mode. I've never been good at the Arkham/Assassin's Creed style combat system, so I admit to struggling quite a lot with certain segments. Framerate at times was also pretty horrific.

Stance system is a LOT more linear than Nioh 2, in that it's a rock-paper-scissors thing as opposed to strong-balanced-fast. Stone beats sword, Water beats shield, Wind beats polearms, and Moon beats big guys. The main difference between each stance is the Y-attack string, and the Hold Y input. Although the Y-attack string is functionally identical, just for each corresponding enemy, so the only real difference is the Hold Y attack. Stone does a thrust, Water does that classic Arkham-combat "mash button to repeatedly attack enemy", Wind does a kick (That sets up enemies by knocking them backwards), and Moon does a spin. Aside from the spin, I generally found them to be pretty useful, but at that point, I was thinking that a dedicated stance for each of them seemed pretty pointless. Could probably just have one stance, and then R2 + face button for each of the attacks I mentioned.

I thought duels were pretty fun, if somewhat one-note. They'd be even more fun if the sword-variant duels didn't consist of two movesets, with overlap between said two movesets. I think this is one real advantage Ghost has over other Arkham clones; It actually seems like it was built for one-on-one combat.

Upgrades were a pain in the ass. Like, why is so much basic shit locked? Like as Infinity mentioned, running attacks? Blocking arrows? The ability to parry certain attacks? And why are there so many little paths, that barely seem necessary in the grand scheme of the game? Did throwing knives REALLY need their own upgrade path? Smoke bombs?

Enemies slip and slide all around the arena. It's extremely obnoxious when you think you're a decent distance from a guy, and can focus on someone else, only to get decked in the face with a spear, because said first guy ended up sliding up right behind you. But speaking of enemies, I appreciate how fast they attack in this game compared to a lot of other Arkham clones, or even other enemies in the genre. They don't telegraph their attacks too much like in crappy soulslikes.

It should come as no surprised that stealth in this game is about as basic as it gets. Crouch here, distraction object there, insta-kill 3 enemies in close proximity, jump off heights to stab someone in the neck, snipe guys in head with ranged weapon. Speaking of which, I found that the enemies would occasionally catch wind of the last option, and then respond by making their heads non-corporeal momentarily. What I'm trying to say it, hit detection with arrows was iffy. You don't even get the satisfaction of watching enemies totally freak out when discovering someone was dead like in Arkham, or PGA 2k21.

Despite all this, I'd say that this is still one of the better PS4 exclusives, and I generally enjoyed my time with it. The animations are pretty crunchy, and there are still those classic moments of total zen that you get every now and again while cleaving through enemy hordes. I'd say that the game's about on-par with Spider-Man 2018.

TheFirmament1 wrote:Recently beat the game on hard mode. I've never been good at the Arkham/Assassin's Creed style combat system, so I admit to struggling quite a lot with certain segments. Framerate at times was also pretty horrific.

Stance system is a LOT more linear than Nioh 2, in that it's a rock-paper-scissors thing as opposed to strong-balanced-fast. Stone beats sword, Water beats shield, Wind beats polearms, and Moon beats big guys. The main difference between each stance is the Y-attack string, and the Hold Y input. Although the Y-attack string is functionally identical, just for each corresponding enemy, so the only real difference is the Hold Y attack. Stone does a thrust, Water does that classic Arkham-combat "mash button to repeatedly attack enemy", Wind does a kick (That sets up enemies by knocking them backwards), and Moon does a spin. Aside from the spin, I generally found them to be pretty useful, but at that point, I was thinking that a dedicated stance for each of them seemed pretty pointless. Could probably just have one stance, and then R2 + face button for each of the attacks I mentioned.

I thought duels were pretty fun, if somewhat one-note. They'd be even more fun if the sword-variant duels didn't consist of two movesets, with overlap between said two movesets. I think this is one real advantage Ghost has over other Arkham clones; It actually seems like it was built for one-on-one combat.

Upgrades were a pain in the ass. Like, why is so much basic shit locked? Like as Infinity mentioned, running attacks? Blocking arrows? The ability to parry certain attacks? And why are there so many little paths, that barely seem necessary in the grand scheme of the game? Did throwing knives REALLY need their own upgrade path? Smoke bombs?

Enemies slip and slide all around the arena. It's extremely obnoxious when you think you're a decent distance from a guy, and can focus on someone else, only to get decked in the face with a spear, because said first guy ended up sliding up right behind you. But speaking of enemies, I appreciate how fast they attack in this game compared to a lot of other Arkham clones, or even other enemies in the genre. They don't telegraph their attacks too much like in crappy soulslikes.

It should come as no surprised that stealth in this game is about as basic as it gets. Crouch here, distraction object there, insta-kill 3 enemies in close proximity, jump off heights to stab someone in the neck, snipe guys in head with ranged weapon. Speaking of which, I found that the enemies would occasionally catch wind of the last option, and then respond by making their heads non-corporeal momentarily. What I'm trying to say it, hit detection with arrows was iffy. You don't even get the satisfaction of watching enemies totally freak out when discovering someone was dead like in Arkham, or PGA 2k21.

Despite all this, I'd say that this is still one of the better PS4 exclusives, and I generally enjoyed my time with it. The animations are pretty crunchy, and there are still those classic moments of total zen that you get every now and again while cleaving through enemy hordes. I'd say that the game's about on-par with Spider-Man 2018.

Good to know you enjoyed it.

Those moments of total zen whilst you're brutalizing enemies is exactly why I loved it so much lol

I wouldn't compare the combat to Arkham and Spiderman games though, it's the total opposite imo.

Those games don't even have a light and heavy attack...and they also concentrate too much on jumping from one enemy to another, like your character is magnetically attached to the enemies lol

They are more 1 button masher beat em ups imo

>Stance system is a LOT more linear than Nioh 2, in that it's a rock-paper-scissors thing as opposed to strong-balanced-fast. Stone beats sword, Water beats shield, Wind beats polearms, and Moon beats big guys.

No way around this? Sounds pretty awful.

>Water does that classic Arkham-combat "mash button to repeatedly attack enemy"

Eww.

>Wind does a kick

Only thing that looked interesting from videos.

>Upgrades were a pain in the ass.

That sounds absolutely repulsive.

>because said first guy ended up sliding up right behind you.

Is this like what I was describing before where you or enemies approach as if magnetized?

>They don't telegraph their attacks too much like in crappy soulslikes.

Good to know.

>It should come as no surprised that stealth in this game is about as basic as it gets.

As expected.

>I'd say that this is still one of the better PS4 exclusives,

That's not saying much.

How's poison in this?

TheFirmament1 wrote:

Despite all this, I'd say that this is still one of the better PS4 exclusives, and I generally enjoyed my time with it. The animations are pretty crunchy, and there are still those classic moments of total zen that you get every now and again while cleaving through enemy hordes. I'd say that the game's about on-par with Spider-Man 2018.

Glad you enjoyed the game man!

Have you tried the Legends multiplayer mode yet? It not, I would recommend it! And this is coming from someone who rarely ever plays multiplayer games.

Just giving this a bump as there is a big DLC expansion coming for both the single player main game and the Legends multiplayer mode on August 20. I am so excited….

I can’t recommend the game highly enough if you have not tried it already. The Legends multiplayer mode is also incredibly fun and well done—-it’s now my favorite multiplayer experience ever.