The Evil Within

Google Docs is personally really nice since you can just write on it whenever you want, and it has version history. So if you make a big mistake you can always go back. I always use 'track changes' when my editor goes ham. Really handy honestly, wouldn't know how to do this site without it!

Just send it when you feel confident and I'll take a look mate!

Thinking about doing another challenge run, preferably one that hasn’t been done yet(or at least one that hasn’t been “recorded”). Was considering the obvious Akumu NUR+ but also adding in no sneak kills(forcing you to get creative/precise with flash bolts). Any other ideas?

Crossbow only? Or Melee only? I did melee only until...I think chapter 5 and got bored. But the enemies all have patterns that allow for it iirc.

>crossbow only

That’s a good one. Would have to really be on point with grouping. Harpoons would need to be relegated to boss killers. Matches would become even more useful since there’s no crits for instant kills.

>melee only

I love this game, but I’m not insane! Haha.

Why not? Knife Only in TEW2 has been done and that runner is a known troll on Gamefaqs

Jokes aside, I think it should be doable and would really play into your enemy-pattern knownledge (and improve it). But yeah crossbow only sounds the most fun, also due to resources.

Well, some parts would just be...almost impossible I feel(burning house). I think I’m going to do a warmup run before crossbow only. Starting tonight.

>known troll on Gamefaqs

You’re way less of a troll than I am. Haha.

> impossible
Perhaps, but you won't know if you don't try. I felt a lot of parts in my TEWII knife-only run would be impossible too, but once you're put into a position your problem-solving skills will be put to the test and you tend to find a way. And if not, you can always make a rule-exception for specific encounters. Or start on lower settings.

For my Knife Only in RE4 and TEWII I both did them on all difficulties first so I could make a plan, while with the latter I also mapped out my upgrades. It's all about having a plan.

Yeah, do it.

You might not succeed, but you'll definitely learn something along the way.

Started my NUR+/no flash/freeze bolt run. Up to chapter 6, have got very close to beating the burning building a couple times. Have a newfound appreciation for harpoon bolts and grenades without having the flash bolt panic button. Maybe I’ll try melee only after my crossbow run.

Good man! I think you'll, just like now, get newfound appreciation for specific mechanics. Chapter6 is generally the run-killer right?

Definitely, chapter 11 is second hardest but chapter 6 is just crazy the whole way through(it’s also the longest chapter by far I feel).

Well I beat the chapter. Lot of shotgun funneling and hitting enemies with shock bolts in narrow spaces. The handgun saw little use since there’s just so many enemies. Hoarded my sniper ammo for the boss and took advantage of the little trick against him. So glad to get a break with chapters 7 and 8!

Akumu, NUR+ with no flash or freeze bolts is DONE. Once the gondola ride in chapter 11 was finished I knew the rest of the run was smooth sailing. I was capturing footage for the whole run and I somehow deleted chapters 10 and 11 so I had to load a previous NG+ file of a different NUR, and I started chapter 10 with damn near nothing. No idea how I did it but it’s over. I think I’m going to celebrate by taking all of that green gel(two playthrough worth) and upgrade everything for a “decimate everything” run.

Awesome work man! Will you be uploading the run, or will it be used as footage for your analysis video? How is that going anyway?

Our lord and savior, Civit "Ninja Gaiden needs lock-on" the Youtuber, made a video where he bashed TEW, had to think of you but I spared you the loss of braincells.

Thanks! And yeah, I have chapters 1-11 uploaded already actually, just need to commentate 12-15 and get them up. I decided to axe the analysis video, instead I integrated a lot of those talking points into my commentaries as strats and insights into how the game works.

>cvit

Oh yeah, I saw it. It doesn’t surprise me that someone who hated NG2 hates TEW since they both tend to put casuals off(rough first playthroughs, some BS, crappy parts here and there but fantastic combat). I haven’t even looked at his channel since then.

A shame man, really, you had a good script there. What made you want to pull the plug?

A few things. Editing all of those little things together was mind-numbing, and I just don’t like doing the “super serious critique guy” voice, it just doesn’t work for me I don’t think. I put a ton of the info into my other stuff though, so it’s not a total loss.

Is this something you have on YouTube, Infinity? I don't really know anything about the game so it'd be cool to watch a commentated playthrough.

Yeah I have it on YouTube. I don’t know if it’s against the TOS to plug my channel though haha.

You can plug, just don't make it your sole posting habbit :)

Channel name/avatar are placeholders, and my commentaries aren’t the best(never been a good speaker), but here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTJisaqHxbHfC8qN7ZE00gg

This is always an exciting moment, I finally get to hear a voice behind the Sebastian avatar on this forum haha.



And it is nothing like I imagined it haha!

Haha yeah, when I listen to those I think “I don’t sound like that...do I?”, but apparently I do. I’m trying to decide if I should commentate my next run or not.

I'll check it out! Always up for learning more about games. Subbed by the way, and thanks for subbing to me the other day!

Cool, hope it interests you! And sure thing, always down to support others around here and watching Urban Reign again is really fun.

@Infinity_Divide
I've only watched the second chapter and I really like your commentary, I think you should continue with this format. I can't watch the rest because first I want to play the game, but I'll come back to your videos for sure.

Thanks man! Really appreciate it.

Ha. I was just reminded of something great: if you stick an explosive bolt to Sentinel(dog boss) while he’s not in any kind of animation, he’ll shake it off like when a dog is trying to dry off. So many great details.

What...

I remember that too! Pretty fun detail!

https://www.gog.com/game/the_evil_within_bundle
https://www.gog.com/game/the_evil_within_2

Both titles are now available on PC DRM-free from GoG and are discounted at the moment. Would you guys recommend them at these prices?

>Why not? Knife Only in TEW2 has been done

There is no way knife only is possible in TEW. 2 is a completely different game. TEW locks you in so many bullshit death boxes, like burning house. Would love to be proven wrong, but I don't think it is possible in the slightest.

>recommend at these prices 

I think you know my answer haha. 100% worth it. 

>don’t think it’s possible in 1

Yeah, I’m going to have to agree with this. The burning house, two Traumas in ch10, amalgam...there’s just no way. The enemies can be too frantic and unpredictable, and most environments are pretty small so you can’t always get a lot of space. Plus some sections wouldn’t be possible(shutter, bus shootout).

> There's no way
A quick search netted me this run by Schultz:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtWjZS1lWzXo7QqWtpw5i829p0ysxq2mc

I think it's done on Normal, as the 'eye' is present when he's sneaking. But a quick browse through the run shows that he melee's the whole game. Including the burning house and twin-keepers. Did notice he used grenades against the chapter 10 boss, in the comments he notes he was too tired of the boss.

Nothing is impossible until you try, the guy put in the work and there's a ton of smart uses of the enviroment in this run from what I'm seeing. Had the same with TEW2, lot of 'this is impossible' sections, until I tried.
Even knifed Laura and Harbinger, both of which were 15+ minute fights. The Fire Walk is one of the hardest sections in the series I'd say, and I knifed that too. It's an escort mission where you're fighting enemies that deal damage if you touch them (includes knifing) while in an area that gets smaller (leave it, and you take damage).

I'd say give it a go before passing judgment, perhaps on an easier setting. I did a Knife Only in TEW2 on Easy NG+ first so I could test strats. Enemies are rarely unpredictable, there's usually a pattern to be found. I'm honestly surprised to just hear such a blatant "no" without trying here, or looking.

> run exceptions
A given. RE4 has an entire boss that can't be knifed, as well as numerous gun sections (drill, monorail, water room) yet we still have a Knife Only run. Just use the weakest alternative I'd say. TEW2's final boss also cannot be knifed, so I used an un-upgraded Silenced Pistol. Wouldn't kill an entire run just becuase of some forced segments.

> GOG
Pretty sweet deals. Any notes if these versions include the pre-order DLC stuff?

Yeah, my mind went straight to Akumu and all I could think about was how easy it would be to get surrounded with one hit killing you. Also assumed it was a NUR, which I guess if you have stamina and upgraded melee then that makes a difference.

Maybe I’ll try it at some point, but the thought of wailing on an enemy for minutes on end is just off-putting haha.

Edit: I believe this run was done on easy, I think the detection eye is only that difficulty in the first game.

Gotta take runs like this in parts, if you immediately jump to a NUR Akumu, you won't have the ability to experiment that much. My TEW2 Knife Run also used upgrades for instance, and was on Nightmare instead of Classic or Akumu (granted, Akuma wasn't out yet at the time). Most RE4 knife's aren't NUR either, most use the Yellow Herbs and on Normal also the flak-jacket.

> eye
Never played the game on easy, and had the eye. So Normal is also possible. It's absent on Nightmare right?

Good point, if I ever attempt it I’ll work my way up. I just had cringed at the thought of attempting some of these parts as base Sebastian on Akumu, since they can be difficult enough even with all your weapons. 

>eye on normal

Maybe I’m going crazy, but my first playthrough was on normal I don’t remember ever having the eye. I know normal has in TEW2. I haven’t played below Akumu in so long I’m getting these things mixed up haha.

Also, will add that I don’t think the game has any parts that are BS- the burning house seems that way because of the poor performance and the way the enemies spawn in, but I really think the crossbow makes most of these parts fair, given that you can work around enemy spawns and protect yourself if you know what’s coming. The OHKO hitscan weapons are also iffy, but there’s usually a period before the enemies fire, lot of time to go on the offensive, place a trap, hide, etc

> eye
It's on Normal as well, but you can disable it in the options menu if you wish. It's disabled on Nightmare by default.

> melee only
Been watching the run a tad more. Guy really likes playing with enemies being stuck in climbing animations and using small obstacles that the AI has pathfinding issues with. Steps and stairs are also used. He does tank a lot of hits. Still, good show all 'round. Melee'ing the twin Keepers is no joke.

Watched some more of the run. Fun to see someone do it but I don’t think I’ll attempt it. Runs like this aren’t really my thing I don’t think. 

>enemies stuck in climbing actions 

One of the best ways to get groups going, saves my ass in the CH15 battle. Also nets a free kill on alter egos(dem stomps).

I purely was thinking akumu when I made the impossible comment. That run is on casual(it says on the last video), the enemies don't even move in the burning room lol. I've never seen the game on casual wow man, like a different game.

Yeah the way the enemies were behaving as well as the tiny damage made me think this was easy. I haven’t played the game on anything below nightmare since release so some of these sections definitely looked off to me haha.

I won't say impossible still, it's a matter of time and perseverance, but Akumu Melee Only would probably take a lot of damned time and perserverance haha. Probably a year long project. Still, at least the guy tried. Some runs will just stay obscure. Don't think we'll ever see a zero death run of NGII or Vanquish either, though I'd love to see it happen.

Note, I tended to think runs were impossible until I saw someone do the Clones on a PAIN run in GoW1. After that, everything is possible imo haha! That shit was unreal.

By no death NG2 do you mean single segment?
A single segment no damage NG2 MN run is technically possible, but you would have to devote your life to it in a way no one will. I truly believe Akumu knife only is absolutely impossible. I am basing that just on burning room alone. Somethings just aren't possible, no matter the perseverance. That being said if the game was more popular maybe the community would have found a way. There isn't really a TEW community.

When I mean no-death I mean single segment yeah, same goes for Vanquish. NGII would be possible if not for Gigadeath wrecking house and Chapter 11 just being so insane. Chapter 3 and 4 would also be real killers. There hasn't even been a single-segment run per chapter, let alone the game. Pretty wild.

> single segment no damage
Technically possible since we already have a few runs of the entire game, and one guy single-segment no-damaging Chapter 11 on Master Ninja. The whole game, like with TEW Akumu Knife Only, I would say it's just preserverence. Put one guy behind a machine and one day the stars will align.

One thing that does go in TEWs favour regarding this though is its checkpoints. You can basically brute force your way through until the game works in your favour. Might take..a while though.

Same goes for TEW2 knife only imo. I don't see it happening on Classic or Akumu without just pushing on through for years. I only managed to get through because I had checkpoints and could work with those in mind, especially Fire Walk. That segment is absolutely nuts and whoever designed that isn't welcome in my household haha

Isn’t it fascinating thinking about this...since games aren’t some binary thing, all challenges like this are technically possible, but it really is a matter of “is anyone sane enough to even attempt it?”. I think in the case of an Akumu melee only run, there would have to be some kind of tech discovered or something to facilitate it, because as it stands it seems impossible to me. But we really don’t know what could happen(spoiler: I’m probably not going to be the one to try haha). 

>there isn’t really a TEW community 

Heartbreaking. I lurk the board on GFAQS and a couple new faces show up once in a while but yeah...the game really doesn’t seem to have many fans.

Well, I officially am hanging this game up for now, as of yesterday. I finished my NG+ experiment/fun run, and want to play other things, so I’m going to put this ol’ boy to rest for the time being. Wanted to do a quick “appreciation” write up for the game:

Been playing since Mid November, so I’ve been at this game for a little over 5 months now. In that time I think I’ve learned more things than I have about any other game I’ve ever played, and this is for a title I was already familiar with. This, along with many other(IMO) greats in the genre, you have to go in with an open mind. I came back to the game actively seeking things that would make it stick out from the pack.

I don’t think in the past I gave enough credit to the match system. It is truly brilliant to me. It really feels like the evolution of how knockdowns were handled in RE4. The fact that enemies can attack you while grounded, or while rising, and do it at varying speeds and with different attack animations just makes this system that much better. Especially on my NURs, going for a match throw was always a little bit calculated and risky. It wasn’t a case of “well that enemy is down, free damage”, I was still in danger, no matter the state of the enemy. True survival horror. The matches encouraging group knockdowns and kills is also a way to add special emphasis to most weapons, and I absolutely adore how the fire/match system is so interlocked with the game’s arsenal. I know some people don’t like it, but the fact that enemies can spring at you for a desperation attack before being killed by fire is excellent; it keeps the tension up, even after you think you’ve won. It could be seen as unfair, but as long you use fire-based attacks with the intention of keeping your guard up, it’s perfectly fair. Tense, dynamic, efficient...just brilliant.

Need to give a huge shout out to the game’s arena and scenario design, which are fucking incredible. The game seldom locks you in a room and makes you kill everything(not that there’s anything wrong with that), instead there’s a huge variety of different level layouts(tight hallways, mazes with traps, outdoor areas with different buildings, areas with traps and hiding spots) that you can use to just set up your own personal death traps for the enemies. The empty level or wave based fatigue never sets in here, since the game is relentless with its variety.

To add to this, the preset traps really made me think of how games can approach environmental hazards and interactions. Games usually just have “shoot this barrel” as the extent of their environmental uses, but these traps are handled so damn well. I love that the traps are a danger to you and the enemies, and taking them apart to make your own traps add a layer to it I just fucking love. Sometimes, I’ll shoot the time bombs when enemies are nearby, others I’ll take the tomb bombs and make my own shock bolts, because I would prefer to do that when the right kind of environment comes up. Bear traps I can lure enemies into for a guaranteed match throw, but maybe I’d rather take two bear traps to make a freeze bolt so I can group shatter that difficult mob coming up. Just excellent.

And the weapons. The bow and shotgun alone are probably my favorite weapons ever in a shooter, but then you add in a handgun with bodypart enemy reactions(2x leg shot for knockdown, 1 to running enemy, arm to drop weapon, stomach for lock-in-place hitstun), a 60% crit chance, and an amazing synergy with the match system? Just gold. I can’t believe how evenly I swapped between all of my weapons, both in a NUR and an upgrade run. The bow does it all: single enemy stuns, group stuns, opportunities for matches, opportunities for sneak kills, single target damage, group damage, boss stagger, boss stun, boss slow, long range fire(only way to achieve this), damage traps, stun traps, boss spawn traps, etc etc. The pinnacle of weapon design in shooters IMO.

I don’t think it was until my last challenge run where I really appreciated the enemies. The amount of animations, details, and reactions enemies have is ridiculous. Not only that, it varies depending on the enemy model: fat haunted put their arms up to block headshots, have really quick melees but run slower, tend to have longer weapons, while female haunted react to shots by stopping and then sprinting at you, will attack more wildly, will crouch walk to avoid headshots, etc. Enemies will take any opportunity to react and I literally never felt safe. Like I said, enemies attack while knocked down and while getting up, but do it in different ways to always throw me off. Again, I think people could say that’s unfair or you should be rewarded by knocking down enemies, but...isn’t it time we try new things in these genres? Not everything needs iframes. Not everything should be guaranteed just because we’re used to it, in my opinion of course.

Obviously there’s some things I’m not a fan of(every game has its flaws, after all). I wish melees were more consistent, since it seems like some enemies tank your hits with no real way to make them suffer hitstun. I also wish that the environmental stuff early in the game(hay bales and oil patches) were more prevalent later on. These are probably there in the early game to compensate for your lack of firepower, but that option would have been nice later on too.

I could seriously talk about this damn thing all day but I’ll just leave it at that for now. It’s going to be hard playing non-Mikami TPS from now on if I’m being honest. I played Control after getting back into this and I found the game absolutely dreadful: braindead, thoughtless, completely lacking in substance and detail. I can’t imagine other games won’t feel the same to me. I can honestly say that I think this is my new favorite combat system ever. It’s rough, doesn’t always perform well, and is cheap at first; but my fucking god, the depth and amount of raw satisfaction is unlike anything I’ve ever experienced.

That’s all for now. Sorry for the dumb post.

Wow. Great post, man. Kinda makes me feel ashamed for brushing this game aside for so long!

Agreed, great post! You've got me looking forward to playing it. If only I didn't have so many games to play...I'm gonna have to put them all in to some sort of randomiser to decide what to play next.

How similar (or different) is this title to RE4? I started watching your TEW playthrough but I've decided it might be best for me to experience the game myself first. It doesn't look as campy, and aesthetically seems to sway more towards horror than action. I really enjoyed my most recent playthrough of Vanquish, so it'd be interesting to see how Mikami's third person shooters compare.

It’s surprisingly different from RE4, but a lot of that game’s fundamentals and groundwork carry over. Shooting enemies in certain spots does a lot of the same things as in RE4, enemies almost always go for melees and weapon throws, fire and explosions are godlike, etc. Some things were taken further, like the match system and traps, but the game doesn’t have as many weapons as RE4(opts for a more robust upgrade system and a weapon that can do it all with the crossbow). You will have to adjust if you get used to RE4, enemies are a lot more sporadic and they’re more difficult to evade and get away from. I’d say in RE4 it’s very important to understand the fundamentals, while in TEW it’s very important to understand weapon specifics, if that makes any sense. TEW’s pacing isn’t quite as good as RE4’s, but the game mixes up its enemy compositions and level layouts just as nicely.

>experience the game yourself first

Not a bad idea but just note that the game can seem like bullshit in a lot of ways on a first playthrough. Just think of it as a learning experience haha.

>more towards horror

There are some very gritty and dark areas in the middle and end of the game, it’s definitely more horror than RE4 but it has moments where it’s way more action-y than RE4 ever gets.

>how Mikami’s third person shooters compare

They’re all amazing, that’s how they compare For real though, even Vanquish has some similarities to these other two games, in terms of detailed the enemies are, and how the weapons operate(shotgun is amazing for stun and knockback, leg shots will make enemies fall over, explosions are amazing and fire overheats Sam, etc.). As different as they are in terms of pace and theme, you can find underlying ideas in them all.

If you’re wondering about pure quality, that’s definitely going to vary between us all. I think if I had to rate them in terms of overall package I would say RE4>Vanquish>TEW. But in terms of pure combat I would say TEW>Vanquish=RE4. Weird opinion, I know!

So, I just played roughly 20 mins of this game to reacquaint myself with it a little. It's been 6 years, mind you (I checked!).

And man, does it not do itself any favors with its introduction. I've done nothing but push forward while Sebastian limped away from a scripted enemy and the framerate tanked at every turn. This is just so... unlike any of Mikami's other games. I wonder if he was trying to appeal to a wider audience and just copied other games that were popular at the time with their scripted walking sections and the like?

Anyway, I wanted to ask about the original letterbox ratio that was turned into an optional toggle with one of the later patches. As a huge purist of the old RE games, I always recommend people to play the HD versions in their original 4:3 aspect ratio so as not to miss out on the intended composition of the pre-rendered backgrounds. But I'm not actually sure the forced letterbox makes that much sense in a full 3D environment? Infinity, what is your take on this? Purist letterbox or casul widescreen?

Yeah, the intro is ass. The first and last chapters are by far the worst. As for trying to appeal to a wider audience, it’s certainly possible. Publishers can also have a pretty decent say in what they want the game to contain, and maybe since Bethesda was marketing this as some big spook em up they wanted an intro that was very “in your face”.

As for the letterbox, I absolutely recommend taking it off and going widescreen. Because the game has such a strong emphasis on observing enemies on the ground it can mess with your ability to assess situations. At release there were theories that it was done to help stabilize the frame rate but it doesn’t make a difference. Wide screen all the way.