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Knack 2

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101 Re: Knack 2 on Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:49 am

Birdman


Moderator
Dash glitch in battle test.

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102 Re: Knack 2 on Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:13 am

Birdman


Moderator
Only noticed 2 differences so far.

1 - Different picture when loading up.
2 - Knack's size is measured in meters, not height.

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103 Re: Knack 2 on Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:08 pm

Holy Moly that looks way too good haha. It absolutely wrecks whole rooms, a dodge that deals damage and has no recovery. What the hell!!! Amazing find! I did notice you got hit at one point, was that you screwing up or is it not fully invincible?

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104 Re: Knack 2 on Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:28 pm

Birdman


Moderator
From my testing the dash only has invincibility at the start so it's useless for area attacks or beams.

Yeah at one point one of them got in a hit with his area attack. You'll see a blue explosion around the time I got hit. I cant be sure though.

It doesn't do much to those heavily armored guys until their armor is off and even then it's not much. Still this is one of the hardest rooms on VH. On NUR it was horrible.

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105 Re: Knack 2 on Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:46 am

Birdman


Moderator
Fucking hackers. Whats the point of putting your fastest time as 0.00? And then some other idiots put it at 3 seconds.

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106 Re: Knack 2 on Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:22 am

I never understood this either. I remember getting second in the Hitman Absolution ranks at one time with the highest rank having 10 points more than me. I spent days figuring out how he did this, only to later find out he just used hax.

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107 Re: Knack 2 on Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:21 am

Birdman


Moderator
Just got Vampire Knack in the Japanese version but found out you need to have the Tackle skill unlocked to use the glitch, or at least I think you do. I never tried before getting it because I discovered this glitch long after 100% completion.

Just need to build some exp then we'll see. Next I need to unlock Speedy Knack to test the high jump glitch, then run through the game using the dash glitch. Found one instance where you can take a shortcut so there could be more.

There's this narrow street with a goblin on a huge turret. Normally you can't approach because he just destroyed you right away, but with the dash you can move faster than he can shoot. Saves a short climb you usually have to do to get behind him.

Edit: Dash glitch didn't work when I got Tackle. That leaves only two more dash related upgrades which are attack extensions.

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108 Re: Knack 2 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:10 am

Birdman


Moderator
Got in touch with one someone I saw posting on speedrun.com about running this. Showed him the glitches and then he made this funny video.



Should gain more attention now and hopefully we'll see some insane runs in the near future.

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109 Re: Knack 2 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:08 am

https://twitter.com/truongasm/status/1004069402583560192?s=19

Knack getting some love!

Also great to hear about the Speedrunners! I have no idea what he is saying though haha!

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110 Re: Knack 2 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:32 am

Birdman


Moderator
I saw this. It's cgg nonsense.

They're just making fun of it. Look at the comments. No kid could play Knack 2 outside of easy mode button mashing.

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111 Re: Knack 2 on Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:49 am

Birdman


Moderator
Found another neat trick. The teleport dash.

Vampire Knack can teleport from about mid range, which is actually quite far. This puts him behind the enemy (or depending on the angle you started, the opposite side of the enemy).

If you start a dash, then immediately teleport, you do this combination of both actions. You teleport, but when you appear by the enemy, you're dashing. With tackle (attack barrier on dash) you carry this with you just like with Flip Kick.

This makes teleport even better, because you appear dashing meaning you hit them, interrupting their attack.

From my testing there are two timings. One is sort of late, so you dash first then instantly hit teleport. You appear in the dash animation.

The second is you press dash and teleport at the same time. This seems to be the 'real' version because when you teleport and Knack completely vanishes, you'll still see the effects of the dash in the air. By this I mean when Knack dashes, it looks like he leaves some relics a little behind him due to the speed, and you'll see little red, yellow and blue trails in the air.

This makes it a super long range dash in addition to teleporting. I need to test a few more things and should have a video up later.

Edit: Started working on this the moment I got home from work. Found out exactly how it works. There are a few variations. I touched on them earlier but I'll go over them again with the knowledge I have now.

Teleport dash with no damage
Hold dash, and at the same time do teleport (L2+Triangle), but release L2+Triangle when Knack teleports. This makes him appear behind the enemy with the dash barrier, but he'll still be in the teleport animation which is this vampire pose.

Teleport dash with damage
Same as above, but hold L2+Triangle and Knack will appear dashing, as if he dashed long range. This is considered an actual dash so the enemy gets hit.

New tech - Teleport dash Flip Kick
Finding this as I type. You know the dash can't be fully cancelled with much, but the Flip Kick outright cancels it whenever. I've already posted a Techknack where you cancel a dash instantly and carry the barrier into the air. Since we can now combine dash and teleport, we can now add Flip Kick to the mix and get a teleport Flip Kick!

Also, I posted how you can shorten a dash with Multi Punch. This means during a teleport dash, you can hold Square and cancel the dash when you appear behind them into MP.

Air dash version
Teleporting can be done in the air so this follows the same rule as the grounded version, only something really cool happens. Knack teleport dashes downward similar to Dante and Vergil's Killer Bee move. In fact, the truth is they learned this move from Knack.

I should have some videos up soon.

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112 Re: Knack 2 on Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:19 am

Birdman


Moderator
Teleport dash


Teleport dash without the dash. This happens if you don't hold the buttons down.


Teleport dash Flip Kick.


Teleport Dash Multi Punch


Air Teleport Dash

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113 Re: Knack 2 on Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:04 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Finally got round to upgrading in the Japanese version of Knack 2. Last time, I was trying to find out if the infinite dash glitch works in this version.

Upgrading the dash with tackle wasn't enough but I just got the kick extension and that made the glitch work. Makes sense since the kick button is circle, which is is also used for Vampire Knack's Storm special move.

I guess getting the punch extension wouldn't work. I'll be able to test this when I get Saber and Shooter Knack. If you remember, the glitch works with them, but uses meter, making it useless. Saber Knack's special uses the punch button (Square) so I'll be able to test before I upgrade the punch extension and see if that's actually what allows this glitch to happen.

I'm 100% certain it's because of these two extensions because it only worked after getting one of them. I guess the high jump glitch works too and that both versions are identical in every possible way outside of voice acting. They even seem to share trophy lists. I can't find a separate list for this version in my trophy list.

Edit: Dat feel when you know you're the only one in the world taking Knack 2 seriously. A lonely existence.

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114 Re: Knack 2 on Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:11 am

Birdman


Moderator
Added a few more videos to the form change section as well as some Saber Knack stuff.

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115 Re: Knack 2 on Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:16 am

Really cool to see this whole game take shape, it is a lonely existence for sure but we're all rooting for you. And honestly, games like this deserve the love.

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116 Re: Knack 2 on Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:27 am

Birdman


Moderator
Jim Sterling is a dick. In his review he trashes the game on like, everything, yet nothing he said was actually true and he contradicts himself. I love how in the comments he has posted the first one, setting up any responses that disagree with his view to be ridiculed from the start.

Talks about the dishonesty of the industry but what is this hypocritical shit?

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117 Re: Knack 2 on Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:23 am

Birdman


Moderator
I think I'm done with the guide for now. I've gone over every move and tech I could think of and found tons of new stuff in the process. In the future there will be enemy specifics, going over their attacks, behavior, strategies and how to manipulate the AI.

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118 Re: Knack 2 on Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:17 am

Birdman


Moderator
Oh shit! I totally forgot co-op!

I made a few notes for it but then the entire concept just slipped my mind.

Why is co-op any different you ask? Well, Knack gets access to new attacks with a partner. For example, if you do certain moves on the other player's Knack, it creates a new move. I'm not even sure how many there are.

I've know of two right now. One lets you launch your partner across the screen, and another where you so the multi punch on your partner causes their Knack to shoot a spray of relics.

You can also give relics to the other player though I believe this is temporary, otherwise you'd be able to create one huge Knack very quickly.

It will be too difficult the effects on enemies by myself so I'll put it off for a while. Knowing the mechanics inside and out I'm sure I could guess what they do. I bet anything the relic shots cancel electricity fields based on the rules.

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119 Re: Knack 2 on Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:10 am

Birdman


Moderator
I'm going to start listing enemy moves and behaviors and how to deal with them. I will most likely be listing everything, even stuff you probably wouldn't do because there are better options. I like to examine every possibility, but I also don't want to overload with stuff that's really obvious.

Like the first enemy you encounter is this evil snail with blade arms. It only has one attack, and die in one hit, so I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning how every move in the game affects it. Maybe in that case I could just say something like 'anything works but here's the best method'.

Just messing around with it now, all it has is a jump attack where it rolls at you then jumps and flips forward with its blade arms. Just blocking and hitting it after it rebounds of your guard will kill it. Flip kick is the easiest method (though you won't have it at the start), or you could time your punch really well and smack it out of the air.

This will probably take a while. I do want to include videos but would rather wait until I can get some editing software, then I can make a video per enemy. At this point I'm just going to write everything down and work on it when I have time.

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120 Re: Knack 2 on Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:48 pm

Birdman


Moderator
This is really interesting. You can learn so much about an enemy when you isolate them and observe how they react to your actions.

The first time you fight a large goblin with a huge stone hammer, is in the first chapter. He has 3 attacks (4 if you count a variation, and 5 if you count his berserk state attack) but he uses them differently depending on what you do.

Like he has this combo where he advances towards you while sweeping his hammer back and forth. He sweeps twice, pauses, then twice again. Let's just call the two sweeps a set. He does 3 sets, then stops advancing and does an AoE attack where his hammer glows yellow, and he slams the ground creating a shockwave.

However, if you block or get hit by any hit of the first two sets, he won't do the third, and will instead do the AoE attack. The version where he does 3 must be for advancing and trying to set up the AoE. If he scores a hit, blocked or direct, he figures he's got you pinned down and can possibly catch you with it. I never would have noticed this unless I sat down and tested it.

I'm now going through the game isolating each enemy and testing what they can do. I've also found something very interesting about how you take damage, though it's quite hard to explain and I need to verify some stuff first.

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121 Re: Knack 2 on Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:03 am

Birdman


Moderator
I cant believe people hacked the leaderboards. Why? Why would you put ZERO seconds? And then it goes up from there like 3, 5, etc. You cant even run a few meters in that time.

Whats really annoying is theyve done this right up to the actual reasonable times so you cant be sure if you're looking at a really optimized run or someone whose hacked it with a time just below the best real times.

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122 Re: Knack 2 on Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:53 am

Birdman


Moderator
There's a few more runs I want to do.

The time attack leaderboards have been hacked, but the stage scores haven't. I'm going to see if I can get the number 1 spot on the leaderboards. Shouldn't be too hard. I've never bothered with it until now and just easily beat the stage 1 score.

You get a score for each stage based on enemies killed, damage, time and difficulty and some other stuff like killing various non-enemy critters. Could be other small things. The infinite dash glitch should help with time hehehe.

The leaderboard position is based on your total playthrough score. Mine is currently around 15 million, while the top score is just over 20 million. Will be very easy to top this I think.

I'm going to keep notes on what I did such as where I used certain forms to do things faster. I don't think it will be a good idea to use the super jump glitch, as this results in skipping fights, losing points. On the other hand, could the time bonus be worth more than killing everything? I'll be sure to test this on stages that use the high jump. There are some spots where you can't avoid damage so I'll do those the normal way.

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123 Re: Knack 2 on Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:02 am

> leaderboards
I never understood this... Like if you're going to hack at least make it a 'real time'. I remember the Hitman Absolution leaderboards, where each stage had 'max points'. Yet one guy surprisingly had 1 point more than everyone else. Sure dude....

Would be cool to see you at the number 1 spot. Would be well deserved considering your work into this game!

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124 Re: Knack 2 on Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:18 am

Birdman


Moderator
Just did a few stages and beat the scores of the current 1st place easily. This was getting hit too. I doubt they took the game seriously.

I redo every stage without getting hit though just to push it more. It's really fun.

I'm going to look into contacting Sony and see if I can get those hacker's scores removed. I assume there's a number or email for this purpose.

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125 Re: Knack 2 on Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:39 am

Birdman


Moderator
Still working my way through each stage.
I already had higher scores in a few levels but most of them are slightly lower.

Some details on the scoring system.

Battle score
This is simply the points you get for killing an enemy. Each enemy is worth a certain amount of points. I mentioned 'critters' before that contribute to your score. There are insects around some levels like beetles and ladybugs. They can't attack and give a little exp when killed. Getting close spooks them and they fly off.

Time bonus
No need to explain this. Infinite dash? Never heard of it!

Difficulty bonus
The leaderboard doesn't keep score per difficulty. You actually have to play on VH to get the bonus. Also, more enemies appear in VH so you can get a higher battle score.

I plan to redo every level without damage, which is really tricky on some stages. I do try to no damage on my first attempt but it doesn't always work out. I'm not sure if the points you lose are set, like a bonus you lose just for taking damage or if it's per hit/amount overall. There's no mention of it in the results.

The special forms are VERY useful. I've got notes for a few stages fully optimized but later ones that are longer and harder are going to require some serious planning.

*Shooter Knack is great for blasting groups from miles away, some before you even enter their area.
*Saber Knack's high attack power is great for utterly destroying larger enemies faster than anything else can.
*Speedy Knack for the high jump glitch.
*And of course Vampire Knack for the infinite dash. It's a real sight, clearing long paths or crossing larger areas in seconds where normally Knack would be plodding along. Ok he's not than slow but the difference is complete insanity.

I'm also finding new tricks with the dash. There's this part where you're on a walkway as small Knack and a giant robot is standing right there looking for you.  There are four what appear to be water towers and you have to run between them when he looks the opposite way. You are actually forced to do this because he changes his looking pattern, and on the last tower some birds fly away drawing his attention. If he sees you, you're dead instantly.

With the dash glitch though, you can completely bypass all of the above.

I also found a few super jump places too. One lets you open a door earlier.

This game is fantastic.

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126 Re: Knack 2 on Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:22 am

Birdman


Moderator
I don't understand.

I now hold the highest scores in every stage yet I'm only rank 13. My overall score is 16,833,338.
The number 1 has 20,871,890.

There is only one more person in the 16 millions, and they're above me, with LOWER scores for each stage. How? What am I missing? My scores are higher than first place.

There are only 5 people in the 17 millions, 4 in the 18s, and strangely, absolutely NONE in the 19s. 1st and 2nd place are slightly above 20 million.

There are no other things scored. Just time, difficulty, and battle points.

These must also be hacked. I didn't think so at first because it doesn't look like it. Maybe the 16 mil above me started it, then others raised theirs slightly to not look suspicious?

That or there's some mechanic I'm missing.

I have one thing to try. I noticed the 3rd place has a ridiculously higher score than me in one stage. There might be some weird rule where you have to have higher than the person directly above you. I have never heard of such a system though.

It doesn't makes sense. What I did was write down the 1st place player's scores then went through beating every last one. That should mean I'm first. Will test this other theory though.

Edit:Just made a discovery.

There is a stage I neglected because I had the higher score than 1st place already. It's a boss fight.

Then I noticed that a lot of people above be have 800000 to 1000000 points! The reason is that there is a part where spider tanks appear and you need to through them at the boss to break his armor. If you don't throw them, you can keep killing them for points as they are infinite. It takes a while though. it took about 13 mins to get around 700000 points. I could, just farm this stage for an hour and get the final 3 mill to been the 20 mill scores just out of spite.

That guy just above me did this to 1 mill. He has I think two more stages with slightly higher scores. Probably ones I got damaged on.

There is a guy above them who I know is a hacker because in time attack he has those ridiculously low scores like 9 seconds. I tried to message him and call him out but his settings prevent it. Cowards.

Edit again: I just got bumped up to 17mill, rank 10. I can see it might be possible to get to 18 mill. I never bothered looking at any score below the first. I'm still higher than most of them though. I also have this idea that the 20 mill ones have already been declared invalid which is why there's no 19 mill scores at all, and both the 20 mill ones have very low scores per stage. They didn't even use the boss farming trick.

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127 Re: Knack 2 on Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:23 am

Birdman


Moderator
Pausing and changing forms doesn't affect the timer. I've been able to complete a TA stage in a crazy low time with this and the dash glitch.

So at least some of the really low times are possible. I managed to get under 7 seconds on that one. There's one guy above me with 5.51 (and above him are the 0 sec cheaters), and I know I can get a slightly lower time if all goes well, but I'm restarting constantly due to seemingly random enemy actions.

Like in the first TA, the first enemies you'll fight are a goblin with a gun and a small claw goblin. I dash glitch over to the shooter and most of the time he starts a charge shot, and I smash into him and do a punch combo to take him out. But sometimes he shots normal bullets which come out fast and I get hit and stopped.

I'm trying to figure out why he does this, but haven't spent a huge deal of time on it. I'm thinking it might have something to do with my approach angle, or maybe the speed of the dash is just messing with him.

The 0 sec cheater scores are pure trolling. Putting 0 there was for NOT because these losers wanted to be 1st place. If they did, they could have just put their time as 1 second faster, and we would have though it possible (of course if they kept doing that they'd be exposed eventually) but no, what they wanted was to prevent anyone being 1st just to be dicks. I bet they don't even play this game.

What this also does is make any low time or high score seem suspicious.

That said I'm thoroughly enjoying optimizing these stage and TA scores.

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128 Re: Knack 2 on Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:25 am

Birdman


Moderator
Roy can you move Knack 2 to the action games section please?

So, regarding these high scores, there are two players ahead of me before the two cheaters, but I can't for the life of me figure out how they have higher scores.

For the first and second stages, I have a list of all enemies and bugs you can kill and how much points they grant. I know I'm killing absolutely everything, no damage, and using the infinite dash to get around way faster, Very Hard bonus yet somehow these two have, for each stage, between 5000-10000 more points.

It makes no sense. I've not left the first two stages, seeing as they're the easiest and there aren't many enemies. I cannot find a single thing that could generate that many points. I seriously doubt every stage has some hidden cache of enemies. The stages are linear and I've already scoured them not only now, but back when I was looking for all the boxes and treasure chests.

Could there be some kind of hidden mechanic? I've had a ton of theories but none have panned out.

I thought it could be more points depending on the type of attack but it wasn't that. A counter hit system with no visible indicator? Maybe. I've seen enemies die in one hit, but then two when I restarted even though Knack was the same size. It just happens sometimes.

There was one boss where I did a huge chuck of damage with the power punch but I wasn't expecting it and didn't really see what the boss (a clone Knack) was doing. It was also the only way to get the required battle points because that fight has no enemies.

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129 Re: Knack 2 on Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:09 am

Done, Action it is :) I'l RnR rest soon!

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130 Re: Knack 2 on Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:29 am

Birdman


Moderator
Found a huge skip using superjump.

It allows you to skip a large fight, and causes some weird effects in the next area. Thankfully, nothing bad happens and you can continue without any issues.

Will upload this and a few other small ones later this week or on the weekend.

Also need to edit the guide a bit. There are some details regarding how you take damage that I forgot to mention. I only focused on size difference which isnt a main issue as the game had enough relics laying around that you'll never be defenseless. It's not always the case that you'll be hurt just because something is bigger.

It's what happens after you take a hit and follow up hits I need to write about.

Also need to work on the enemy guide, gadgets, and add scoring details. Enemy and scoring alone are guides in themselves.

When I do the scoring guide, it will begin with a list of all enemies and insects, then a very brief run-through of the level. I'm talking extremely barebones, so only those who have played will be able to follow it.

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131 Re: Knack 2 on Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:15 am

Birdman


Moderator
So this weekend I spent a lot of time updating my YT channel for Knack 2.

When I first started finding glitches and shortcuts, I kinda went berserk and started finding more shit than I could really keep up with especially after finding the super jump glitch. It's like I completely zoned out and went auto-pilot.

I had uploaded like 50+ vids just labeled 'speed 1', 'speed 2', because I just wanted them out there fast.  So I spent some time renaming all the titles to the actual chapters because anyone running this would find my playlist an absolute nightmare to go through.

Looks much better now, but still have a few more to rename and short descriptions to write. Also, I had actually forgotten which chapters some of my videos were from so I did a few run-throughs of various levels and actually ended up finding even MORE super jump skips and shortcuts.

I realized I need to do a full run-through of the whole game with super jump to make sure I've 100% covered every possibility. Some were new ways of using the jump, while others were places I hadn't tested much or thought were impossible. That battle skip I mentioned in my previous post was something I'd tried before but couldn't get it to work. Back then I wasn't that good with the timing of the jump.

Almost 100 hours logged in so far.

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132 Re: Knack 2 on Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:34 am

Birdman


Moderator
Found a ton of new stuff. Battle skips, long jump technique, dash glitch skips. Still in the process of uploading.

I've created three playlists. Infinite Dash, High Jump, Basic Knack stuff, and TechKnack.

TechKnack is pretty much anything that not specifically for speedrunning.

Infinite Dash.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXU-ANzr6wNeiMD9pBEEY7G9lCr8tfkHu

High Jump.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXU-ANzr6wNcmlrX0-mq_o3xWOUmBmodR

Basic Knack
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXU-ANzr6wNdlj0HqHbf4Wvnu8eI9pk40

TechKnack
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXU-ANzr6wNdYmQ7pQioDYc_VEK2a7ldH

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133 Re: Knack 2 on Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:59 am

Birdman


Moderator
How this game deal with damage is kinda odd. I actually totally forgot about this when writing the guide but I've recorded some examples and made notes. I'll just post some here because I don't know when I'll get to uploading.

So when you get hit, you lose a portion of your relics, reducing your size. The loss depends on the strength of the attack.

When hit, and while the relics are still disconnected, you will see blue electricity on Knack, sort of like when you damage a robot. You've probably seen this effect many times before.

Getting hit again results in more relic loss. But the weird thing is when you block attacks while still disconnected.

In this case, even if you're blocking, and the enemy is smaller and normally couldn't break your guard, they WILL break it while you're blocking.

It doesn't matter if Knack is a giant compared to them. As long as you're disconnected with electricity effect, this will happen.

But normally, if you haven't taken damage, you WILL block their attacks even if you are much smaller. There are even attacks that won't hurt a small Knack, but will hurt a giant, damaged Knack.

Like if a basic medium goblin slashes small Knack, it won't break guard, but if Knack was 3 times the that goblin's size and had just taken any hit, and some relics were disconnected, he would be guard broken.

So even if you're big when you take a hit, and still have that advantage of power, you're not safe and can be decimated. I guess this is due to the fact that relics return shortly, regen in other words, so they lower your capabilities no matter then size. So it's pretty much a penalty.

Hope this all made sense.

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134 Re: Knack 2 on Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:44 am

Birdman


Moderator
I've found (and added to the guide) that what I said above is not entirely accurate. There are attacks that at certain sizes, are so insignificant that they don't even cause hit-stun. These are still blockable even after being hit.

Discovered something cool while working on the score guide. A few levels (like 2) have these rocks you can pick up and throw. I need to add the mechanics of these to the guide.

Anyway I threw a rock and a shooter robot just as it started firing a basic shot (this bot shoots three small energy balls or a beam) and the rock went through the shot and cancelled it.

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