Ninja gaiden general discussion

Wow, you can skip even that platforming section in Black. Itagaki is always right

About hard mode, I'm already doing it. There are a lot of interesting changes and cat fiends at every corner haha. I used chapter 4 to practice with the lunar and now I'm at the beginning of chapter 6.

All I remember about Rachel is coming home from work and finding my friend who lived with us, furiously beating the meat while messing with the camera in a corner.

You're joking? Haha!

And enjoy Hard Mode RedShot! Black and Sigma really change a lot of things on higher settings, making them all feel fresh imo!

No, this guy was (and still is) a real deviant hahaha.

Haha, I heard that sixaxis can do boob jiggling in Sigma 2, Team Ninja was very...innovative.

@Raeng I beat the doppelganger, what a tough guy! Now I'm on chapter 8 using Rachel. Do you have any advice on how to defeat Gamov?

The guillotine throw is really abusable against him, so you can spam that!

Can I use it with Rachel ? Strange, what's the input?

Yeah! It is the same input, just X+square while jumping near a foe's head.

Thanks for the advice, it was very useful.
I beat Alma, I had to do several retries. I knew her moveset but she consistently hit me with her charge or grab attacks after some projectile spam. I started to roll or flying swallow that charge and she was almost done. I used few elixirs to learn her better and it was worth it.

Chapter 18, I have to beat Marbus. Is Dabilahro a good choice against him ? It was insane against Doku.

The True Dragon Sword and Unlaboured Flawlessness are best against him, which goes for most bosses. The Dabi is an easy weapon to punish with though, but the TDS is just too great thanks to its 360 inputs that just melt bosses.

Against Marbus your best bet is to do XXXY when he lands, into an XY and canceling it into an on-landing 360UT using any left over essence. He does a grab during his get-up animation, but your 360UT can't be hit by it.

Chapter 1 (VH difficulty) destroyed me. Murai seems completely different. I have to restart the chapter without wasting any elixir. Those windmill shuriken ninjas are extremely good.

I don't know if you want to discover it on your own or not so I'll put the strategy in spoiler, don't know if if it applies to Sigma tho:

Spoiler:

Thanks for the tactic. I've already done something similar, without on landing Y, so it wasn't completely efficient (and safe). Flying swallow doesn't work, it gets punished in mid-air. He blocks my UTs and wall attacks could work but he seems very defensive. Now I have the confidence to defeat him if I have one or two elixirs. The room before the save point seems much harder. I could skip it, but I like the challenge.

Yeah that tactic from Tai is exactly the one I always use, works like a charm. Very Hard generally is considered to have the hardest enemy-layouts, while Master Ninja has harder hitting foes and gives certain upgrades (way) later. Very Hard is really cool!

I actually prefer VH over MN, does that make me a scrub?

A bit, but we won't tell on you.

Nawh VH honestly has more fun enemy lay-outs. Master Ninja turns into "ogres and berserkers everywhere" really fast, especially in the Fiend Challenges. But the challenge in Master Ninja is a lot harder as a result too, especially in the bosses.

I like both modes equally I'd say. Normal and Hard bore me to tears now though. I still haven't unlocked Hard or higher in my X1X save-game. I just cannot be bothered.

Need some help. I'm doing a no healing item run on NGB and the Dragon Sword Fiend Ryu is kicking my ass. I have to admit I never really learned that fight and now that I can't rely on healing idk what to do. He feels completely inconsistent to me, it seems kinda random if a string will hit or not and the bastard seems like he's reading my input. Is there a consistent strategy for him (ground floor I don't want to cheese him), outside of guilottine throw spam and pray? I tried blocking, block cancelling the guard break and then trying to punish it with either, xxy shuriken, ->xxxx and xy into izuna, but again it seems random if he gets hit or not.

XY with the Dabi or Warhammer absolutely destroy them. Apologies for the sound-desync: https://youtu.be/2jEoOmCKjCk?t=899

The concept is to GTing him during one of his attack animations and then spawncamping him with XY. You can 'read' his Ninpo cast as it is HP dependant and you can wait for the animation, but I got too lazy for that in this video. He's a very inconsistent fight for sure and he does read inputs.

That said, you of course don't have that weapon yet here iirc. So that's a problem. But it will help you in the future.

For the regular fights, he's best fought in a 'bait punish' way. His attacks have the same recovery as ours except that he can guard-cancel out of most punishes and at times counter you into a launcher (so be ready to guard that counter). After his XXY you can for instance GT him. After a GT you can UT with the Lunar (low chance it hits), Gleaming Blade (bigger chance) or straight up try to nail him to the cross with XY.

Note that the X counter from your Dragon Sword's initialy hit (so not the double) can lead to an Izuna, so that's also worth a shot. But you can enter parry wars very easily with him so be wary.

Good luck!

Chapter 3 almost done, I don't know how I didn't die against horsemen in chapter 2, I need a better tactic in the next run. Do you know some good combos with double katanas?

Cvit just made a trilogy review of the games here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6rjKGN2qQ8&feature=youtu.be

Responding to a few of his points:
- If you have a longer combo IN FIGHTS (In other words, maintain the flow of combat) for NGB, this not only increases your karma, but this also increases the amount of yellow orbs you get. So yes, there is a reward.
- The karma was originally meant for leaderboards on Xbox Live.
- Beat the ghost fish by jumping back and forth, and hitting X while in mid-air.
- Lock-on wouldn't work in Ninja Gaiden. There are too many enemies rushing your ass on higher difficulties. So the camera would likely be swinging around a fuckton more. And not to mention that the higher difficulties were what the games were designed around, not normal, so if you went onto said difficulties, you would understand.
- NINJA GAIDEN DOES NOT NEED ON THE FLY WEAPON SWITCHING. Fucking hell, not all action games need this like so many people say. This is not Devil May Cry, where it's all about styling on your enemies, it's about efficiency with the tools you have on hand. I would be a fan of a swap attack though, like how in Nioh, if you switch weapons while attacking, you do a risky, but strong attack.
- The higher difficulties change a LOT about the game.
- Pause combos would break the flow of the game, and wouldn't necessarily fit, mainly due to the aggressive enemies.
- Ninja Gaiden 3 is so much worse than DMC2, that I fail to understand how it is better in any way sans graphics, and possibly story, which should be tertiary consideration in an action game that's about gameplay.

Anyway, I much prefer Ninja Gaiden over Devil May Cry, and Bayonetta, because enemies are actually trying to kill you consistently. I also prefer it's weapons, pace, bosses, focus on efficiency over style and in the case of Black, level design. Really, I think these quote sums up Ninja Gaiden's philosophy to it's design best:
"It was done intentionally of course. The testers who tested this game went nuts. At first it was easier, but when the testers said 'this is too difficult', I made it even more difficult"
"When I first saw the ghost fish that were in the game, they just kind of floated around near Ryu and they didn't do anything. I looked at the guy who worked on this and I said, "What is this; what's the point?" And he said it was "for atmosphere." I said, "This is an action game. You can't just put something in there for atmosphere that is taking up memory and disc space. You either take it out or make it an enemy and do what I say because this is an action game." That's how that enemy came into being. I felt it was ridiculous to have an object in an area where there are no other enemies."

For fuck's sake, why does every action game have to compared to Devil May Cry?

Because DMC combo fanboys don't actually know mechanics at all. They can't process the idea of an enemy that hits back or moves even remotely quickly.

I'll just say here what I said on Reddit: Oh look, a person who played the game once, did zero research and throws a bunch of wacky complaints at the screen.

Alright I'm being a bit mean, and I'm honestly glad seeing the comments that people are reminded of the series again and that it's bringing some life to it. That's always a good thing. If anything Ninja Gaiden needs every piece of exposure it can get, and 10.000+ people being reminded of it is a great thing and I hope that despite this video they give the series a shot.

Other than that I have nothing good to say about the video. Lots of unresearched complaints, bad critism that wouldn't function in the game (i.e. lock-on, weaponswitching), and just general mis-information. It feels very similar to Gamingbritshow's rushed reviews where he quickly did Normal Mode, made some basic first impressions and called it a day.

I could cover each and every point in detail. If Cvit would like this, I would happily do it. Though at the point that he calls Ninja Gaiden II a musou game was the part where I had to take a break. Does nobody play on higher settings anymore?

>mean
Who cares? They deserve it.

>musou
Mechanically blind.

@Redshot

I never used the Katana much. Its 360Y attack is very solid since it has i.frames (there's a few people that say it doesn't, but it does) and also deals a bucketload of damage. The rest of its moves are decent I'd say. It's mostly great against big foes.

@Raeng Yeah, its 360Y is very useful but I still prefer to use the Dragon Sword or the Lunar Staff in the early chapters. Do you know why nunchaku were removed except in normal and MN difficulty? I wish I could use that weapon for some variety early on...
Now I'm on chapter 9 and I'd like to do the fiend challenge (the one with bast fiends and monk fiends) because I haven't missed any of them on this difficulty. Should I do it before or after Alma? Is it possible to complete after chapter 9?

Unless Sigma changed that, you can do all Fiend Challenges as long as you don't activate them, at any time. Some runners prefer to save them 'till Chapter 19. I tend to do them right away (harder haha).

The Nunchucks are present on all difficulties in Black, no clue why they are missing in Sigma on Hard and Very Hard. Probably an oversight (a trend in Sigma).

This is for Black but, iirc the archive challenge becomes unavailable after a certain chapter (I think after Alma but I'm not sure). You should be able to do the other at any time, some of them even if you activate them and then come back (but you don't get the timer/kill karma bonus so it's also difficult to track how far you are into it), I did it with the Stadium and the wasps challenges, I'm not sure about the others.

@Royta: Thanks for all the tips, last night I kinda gave up and cheesed him I didn't want to spend all of that time on him. I did keep a save  tho, so I'll try to do it properly as soon as I have some time.

>Youtube video
At this point I believe that DMC is the Dark Soul of action games, everyone compares everything to it

I believe even that challenge stays active from what I remember despite the room being smashes, but it...might not. I couldn't find a video of it so it probably vanishes after you kill Alma yeah.

> DMC is the dark souls of action games
LOVE it!

@TaiTsurugi and @Raeng Thanks for the answers. That challenge disappeared after Alma, there was a short fight against some bast fiends in its place.

I'm currently going through the game as well on Normal. My savegame didn't transfer to my X1X so I have to do it all over again haha!

Thanks for the confirmation RedShot, I really thought it would stay. Apologies!

@Raeng I watched your NG1 video some days ago but I forgot to congratulate you. A fantastic and complete analysis on this masterpiece. The Master Ninja Tournament was definitely a unique event!

Seriously? Thanks man, appreciate it a lot! Really!

I just watched your video as well, awesome stuff man, must’ve been a lot of work. Do you plan to do something for NG2 as well?

Cheers Infinity! It was a lot of work as you noted. I'd love to eventually convert my NG2 and NGS2 articles to video, but I want to revise them a bit more beforehand. That and...I'll be honest, the video editing wasn't my favourite thing to do. So I'd almost prefer to hire someone to do that haha!

I'm still doing my VH run. I've just won against Awakened Alma. The game keeps getting better and better!

Fantastic man! How did the fight go for you?

It was easy enough to dodge her projectiles but the grab was another story. I had to do some retries to learn the timing and I started to avoid that move. Her minions were annoying in some cases but I managed to stay alive thanks to inazuma or a well placed izuna drop. I'd like to learn this boss even with other weapons, I will have to find out how to knock her down without flying swallow or inazuma.

In most other weapon's cases the tactic is to hit her while she recovers from her dash or using high flying attacks. XY with the Dabi has a chance of knocking her down for instance, while XXY with the Kitetsu after a dash is unavoidable for her since she's in the animation. Other weapons are a bit more dull. The fight with the nunchucks always put me to sleep honestly.

Interesting, it must be a completely different fight. Flying swallow doesn't always connect, but it's extremely useful against her. I wonder if anyone has beaten her with the wooden sword.

It has been done, but I can't find the video at the moment. The guy used the kick attack mostly (>Y I think is the input) while staying at low health for the damage boost. It was a really long engagement. The kick was mostly the punish, while he used jump XY to try to hit Alma paired with shurikens at times to avoid the grab.

Are we talking about MN mode, right? If so, it is hell itself. What are the most incredible challenge runs?

I think that would be "Path of the Masocist", a run by a old ninja-brother of mine called TimmyGunn who nearly completey disappeared from Youtube sadly. His run was:
- Master Ninja
- No Ninpo
- No upgrades to health
- No bracelets
- No healing items
- All fights
- Nunchuck only

He got all the way to the Awakened Alma fight and called it quits there. Guy also did all the Fiend Challenges up until that point, it was fantastic. I'm not sure but it might have also been a No-UT run as well.

And yeah with Wooden Sword I was talking about Master Ninja. It is the only mode I generally cover!

>called it quits there
Why?

Too difficult and frankly an impossible run. He was stubborn and he'd thus have to do the Great Bridge fight thanks to the "all fights" rule, same with the stadium challenge. Both would take an estimated 3 hours to complete where a single slip-up spells a restart. With that 'ahead' of him, and facing the hardest boss of the run, I think he just called it quits. Note, my memory on this is hazy, so Timmy, if you ever read this man, I meant no disrespect!

I've read about that insane run and I'll definitely watch it after my MN run. Just a shame it was never finished but it's still a legendary achievement.

I'm doing the great bridge challenge and I don't know how I should fight. There are 62 ninjas and after them I have to fight 38 berserkers. I've tried to have one or two ninjas while fighting a berserker but it doesn't seem reliable. Three berserkers at once are a nightmare . They keep on spamming fire balls and the explosion. My tactic is to counter-attack with the lunar staff or dabilahro but they hit me with the explosion during my recovery frames.

The Berserkers are a lot different in Sigma compared to Black. In Black they could not attack when off-camera, but they could hardly be countered (only their turn-around attack). In Sigma they can do spells off-camera but can be countered, changing the tactics for them entirely.

If you have it the Unlaboured Flawlessness is a great weapon to use here paired with some back-up healing items. Same goes for the Dark Dragon Blade which you can bring with you (50 scarab reward on Master Ninja). Don't forget off-the-wall attacks either to bring the hurt. Using headstomp into an aerial move is a good way to lock Berserkers down. Same with jumping over them to bait their turn around attack; just use windpath towards one and stand still for a bit.

You'll want to avoid having Ninjas around though during the Berserkers I'd say. The whole tactic is to block and counter, and Ninjas go for grabs when you play like that - dangerous. Hope something like this helps!

I have only 45 golden scarabs so no Dark Dragon Blade. I'll try to use UF and the Lunar staff. Dabilahro's counter seems less reliable because Ryu doesn't move forward like when he does a counter using the Lunar, so the fire explosion can hit me more frequently. I don't know if it's true but I think you can't evade some explosion after a counter unless you use a ninpo, you get caught during recovery frames. I hope I'm wrong and I just need to "git gud".

You can save the Great Bridge until you've killed Marbus if you want (or even just get to Marbus for the scarab and then go back). I think the Lunar counter is the safest here thanks to its animation.

Here's a Very Hard clear: