Ninja gaiden general discussion

It's been a while since the little I played of 3 / RE so I won't pretend to be an expert on that one, but the Steel on Bone nonsense and broken Ninpo completely put me off the game, to say nothing of the garbage enemy design (and don't get me started on the campaign design with the climbing sections and super-serious cutscenes and whatnot).

It's always a bit of a shock to the system for me to hear fellow action game fans have anything positive to say about this game.

...Please don't tell me you consider RE's combat to be superior to NGB's?

NGB is the best full game, but its combat system is by far the weakest in the series imo. It has a ton of little attentions to detail and little matter of facts like unique block properties per weapon, but overal the combat is very simple. Beautiful in its simplicity, but simple (note, I don't mean simple in a bad way). It also is just one tightly nit whole, every enemy is built for this game and its weapons, which shows (and which again Sigma shows, by removing a ton of them and making a worse game because of it). NGII still has that balance of enemies designed around the game they inhabit, but it is just unfinished at times.

Razor's Edge is the equivalent of a kitchen sink smashed into a gamingstudio. The raw combat system, cicada, the bloody rage mechanic - it's the best combat system they've made imo. The downside being that everything around it just isn't built with it in mind. The enemies are like visitors from another game. The bosses don't work in tangent with the mechanics at all. Tons of balance issues, glitches, dull arenas, ugly music etc.
But yeah, Ryu's moveset and abilities, purely that, when it aligns and you've got a good fight on your hands, NG3:RE is top dog. There's so much creativity possible, while keeping an active flow of combat, just insanely good.

That's not really a rare statement either, most NG players I know that played all games on high enough level tend to agree NG3:RE has the best combat system, but just lacking in everything else. I used to hate the game but when I saw that shift in love, especially from players like Devilz and ShowR, I gave it another chance and it did not disappoint.

Regarding Steel on Bone, the original version was ass. What they did with RE was pretty smart, as it gave players a good OHKO option against foes, on the fly ability to heal, and it was something that allowed for bigger fights as well. I still feel the game would be better without it as it promotes a pretty defensive playstyle, but if you adapt the NGII playstyle and only do SoB after a Cicada, it is pure magic.

Not going to comment on story and the kunai, the story was always nonsensical super serious rubbish with some tits thrown in. The only thing cool about it was Ryu imo and the fantastic cutscenes in NGB by that studio whose name I keep forgetting. Kunai climbing was nearly completely removed. There's only like 3-4 sections of it left and they play at 300% original speed, harmless addition in NG3:RE (shit in NG3 though).

Don't take this the wrong way, but NG3:RE is really good but it, of all the games in the series, is only good if you put in the effort. Like The Evil Within you really got to sink your teeth into it, and especially for this game make some custom rules for yourself. Because if you don't hold back...well yeah. Then it's not NG3:RE. It's NG360:RE: https://youtu.be/yH2ti7upQ9o

I'm working on my article on NG3:RE currently, will have a lot more details but yeah I do consider it to have the best combat system in the series, perhaps in the genre; at least at its core. Just a shame that everything else is completely out of wack and the balance (of both enemies and you) is ripe with issues thanks to its 6 month dev time. It really could've been the best in the series had it been a fully fledged game. Which is why I still have faith in the team to make a good NG4.

If I had to rank them, I'd probably be something like this:

Combat System: NG3:RE > NGII > NGB > NGS > NGS2 > NG3

Complete package: NGB >>>>> NGS > NGII > NGS2 > NG3:RE > NG3


Personal preference: NGII > NGB > NG3:RE > NGS2 > NGS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NG3

I'm liking Sigma 2 less and less after I've seen some comparisons with NG2. It doesn't have a "soul", it's just a bad mix of Sigma 1 and NG2. It's still a good action game, but it's not at the top.

This one of Chapter 11 is the most convinsing one to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDAiYc_sy8A

That said, my biggest gripe is that NGS2 doesn't push you to use the intended mechanics and gameplay as much. Especially its Master Ninja Mode promotes a more docile playstyle imo.

I promise this is all in good fun, but how exactly am I supposed to make sense of this:

Royta/Raeng wrote:NGB's [...] combat system is by far the weakest in the series imo.

Royta/Raeng wrote:
Combat System: NG3:RE > NGII > NGB > NGS > NGS2 > NG3

???


In all seriousness, thanks for the thoughtful answer. I bounced off of both NG3 and RE pretty harshly (not unlike TEW, as you already alluded to), although it's good to know the combat can be so rewarding for those willing to put the effort in. I've considered giving it another chance for a few years but I could never bring myself to.

And yeah, you're right. NGB is indeed "beautiful in its simplicity". I'll take super-refined but comparatively simple gameplay loops over hyper-complex but glitchy and unbalanced ones any day. But there's definitely something to be said about the sheer creative potential and possibility spaces of the latter.

Looking at my personal favorites and the kind of games I tend to brush aside, I suppose polish and balance are probably even more important to me than I thought. Interesting to think about.


But for anyone looking to get into the series for the first time or to re-acquaint themselves with it after a long break, I would say that NGB is probably the best point of entry despite its limitations. Just to make sure they really learn the fundamentals and have a big meaty polished game to dive into.

Interesting to read! I knew RE was held in high regard but I didn’t know quite to that level. So a lot of the praise for RE comes more from its moveset and tools right? Would also be curious to hear why NGB is considered more simple(still trying to learn this behemoth of a series). 

Separating the list by combat and complete package is a good idea. When I see action game tier lists or whatever, it’s hard to tell if the creator means combat tiers or the ranking for the games as a whole. I know when GamingBrit did his he meant the whole game, but I think some other more mechanically driven players would just rank the games by their combat. I know that if I had to rank games in the genre it would be quite different under these two conditions.

Hhahaha! Yeah I originally typed that list without taking the Sigmas into consideration, since I tend to ignore them sort of. Added them in at the last minute. I consider NGB, NGII and NG3RE the 'main titles', and out of those I'd say NGB has the least greatest combat system.

> bounced off NG3
No shame in that, did the same. NG3 really crushed any hopes I had for the series at the time and the glitched mess of NG3:RE didn't inspire hope at first. If I alluded to starting with this game, please disregard that, I'd say it's only for purists. Kind of like NG2004, play it once you're more familiar with the games. NGB is a good game to get started with especially since it's a tad slower and thus allows you to familiarize yourself more with the game's movement mechanics which are the same in all three games.

> polish and balance are important to you
And that's very understandable, I think a ton of people would side by that. Personally I tend to stear more towards the yanky games. Though they lack polish, it is often those games that have the weird ideas that are interesting to witness for me. It's why I love MGR:R so much, but also funky games like Alpha Protocol which is practically in its alpha-state haha.

> NGB more simple
There are a lot less combat options for one, attacks string together less easily, the game is generally a lot slower, less enemies on screen and it lacks the delimb system, making it less chaotic and 'tacitical' on the fly thinking and more "hit enemy until dead". NGB is gaming-chess though, it's brilliant. NGII and NG3:RE is like playing chess while the board is on fire, with 0,1 seconds per turn being allowed while nukes are flying around.

>movement mechanics the same in all three games

I figured they had some big differences in them, this is good to know.

Would you consider the knowledge from NGB directly transferable to NG2? Obviously NG2 has more going on but it can be seen as the same foundation right?

Also, sort of random but I was watching some of your vids and saw some guy go off in the comments and say you’ve never actually played NGS. Had a good laugh.

> movement mechanics
There are minor differences like dodge length and animations, but generally speaking it is the same. For instance you can re-direct a jump after a dodge by pressing a direciton + jump at the same time, and you can use this to chain forward jumps (fast than dodge>jump). All that is in all games, same with stuff like guard-resetting and shuriken canceling.

> knowledge transfer
You'll have a leg up by understanding how movement works for sure, but the playstyles are very different so that might actually handicap you.


> that one guy
Too many haha, there's always someone who is angry or insulted by someone playing a game. I used to try to talk to these people, but honestly after starting Stinger I realized you just can't please everybody. If there's a good civil discussion to be had I'm always down, but I'm tired of Behemothblade look a likes. Remember I once had a user, think he was called Raiden or something, go bonkers on me. Only to later find him in the comments of a Ninja Gaiden video complaining about how unfair the series was and how much he hated it and couldn't even beat it on Easy. Then why yell at me? Irony man.

>might actually handicap you

Oh great haha. Wouldn’t expect anything else of this series.

>Raiden something 

That’s the guy I was talking about actually haha. Really bizarre string of comments. 

Well, I think I’m going finish up a couple games I’m still working on and then make a final decision on how to tackle this series. I’m just worried I’ll suck too much to beat MN on NG2.

First run on Master Ninja in NG2 is just beating it, no holds barred. My first time doing that difficulty I abused OLUTs, ran back after every fight to save, abused every overpowered trick in the book etc. Didn't get better until later.

Wish we lived closer, would love to sit on the couch and just enjoy watching someone learn the game.

So no shame in using every last healing item? 


That would be awesome! It seems like everyone here is from a different country though haha. Could use a good real-time NG coach.

Man I used so many healing items the first time through, it's unreal. Healing isn't as big a no-no in NG as it is in DMC. Especially on Master Ninja the games kind of assume you'll use them, Itagaki even mentioned them in some interviews. I think that's also why a lot of players find the series hard to get into, as it seems built around taking damage and healing with potions, both of which feel like 'stuff I don't want to do' for a lot of players.

Progress in NG(II) is mostly getting more confident and having to rely less and less on the game's 'oh crap' buttons like items, OLUT and Ninpo.

If you ever stream it, I'll be sure to hop on in haha!

Yeah I guess I’ve got so used to playing some games without taking damage that I think I should be able to do it in every game. Its strange though, I would feel like I’m really playing NG wrong it I take damage and have to heal, but with Vanquish I have no problem going into danger almost every battle, I view it as just part of the experience.

I think part of it is games that have healing items from a paused menu. Usually games that have this make me think “okay, this is just a last resort option, shouldn’t need it”. But here, NG2 is so brutal that it’s expected like you noted. Guess I have to try to break some habits!

Once you break the habbit it feels a tad dirty at first, but you'll get through it. Note that you can do a no-healing run, but that's really something you have to work up to. That's not something you can just do off the bat (well, you can, but you won't have a good time). NGB is more made for no-damage, as it is far slower.

I now tend to take it at a 'per fight' basis. Some fights I've now mastered in NGII that I can realiably no-heal them, but some others I still need one or two.

An ebay copy of NGB has just landed in my mailbox. This is both exciting and frightening ha.

No way! Good stuff man! Have fun :)

JTB has been posting a new MN walkthrough so it made me pull the trigger.
I am afraid this is like the last classic great action game I haven't played yet , and CL.
Still looking for a CL copy.

Enjoy it man and take your time! You know I'm always down to talk shop haha!

Ugh. Scythe fiends. I forgot about how much I hated those things...

Anyone remember how to deal with those guys? They tend to teleport a lot, and i-frame through your attacks.

Incendiary Shurikens nail them to the cross. Otherwise you can use >YY with the Dragon Sword. Smoke Bombs confuse the hell out of them as well allowing you to charge an UT in their face or just >YY into fiendsealer them. Then of course there's wall-attacks. XYY with the nunchucks are good too.

I just ended up using a lot of wall attacks for scythe fiends, and cat fiends. Wall attacks in this game are so good.

Oh absolutely. I liked how they were changed in NGII i.e. some being insanely high risk but high damage, while others are just i.frames with low damage. NGB's are a tad too good imo, also quite safe.

Awakened Alma is the only thing I out right disagree with completely.
This game has really terrific bosses compared to NG2, you can tell balancing was definitely more at the forefront.
I was honestly very surprised to find a lot of the bosses to be the highlight of the game, the opposite of NG2 for me.
I even love fighting the worms which seems crazy, every worm in NG2 is cancer.
The Dragon, the ice beast, and pazu are stand outs for me.

But Awakened Alma. Nah that aint it son. She is essentially a boss that spams annoying projectiles constantly and has no guaranteed way to open her up.
Her single fire ball which is extremely fast, does about 1/3rd or more maxed life bar on NORMAL.
Watching JTBs boss tutorial where even he couldn't avoid them every time, not a fan of that sort of design.
I wouldn't call it unfair by any means, it is just not the style of boss I enjoy.
Have also been mostly doing no item bosses but this bitch makes me want to burn them lol.

It's ironic, Awakened Alma is by far my favourite fight in the series.

She's super unforgiving, demands perfection and even then can swing the fight against you. That's all subjective though, I can fully understand that players don't enjoy her or think she's badly designed. For me she's just that really hard fight I can always come back to and be challenged. And for just one fight being that way, that's pretty okay I'd say.

I do disagree with not having a guaranteed way of opening her up. She has very clear sections where she's 100% killable, you just have to use specific tools and the openings aren't too frequent. She cannot dodge or block while she's in her bullrush move. So you either attack her with i.framed attacks (>XXX with the TDS) during it, or punish her hard afterwards (i.e. XXY with the Kitetsu or >Y with Dabi canceled with Inferno to knock her down again).

Otherwise she's just like Alma. You can try and knock her down the the semi-ET of the TDS or try your luck with the Flying Swallow. In NG2004 you could also parry her for some reason, think they removed that since it was probably an oversight. You can also spam XY with the Warhammer when she's flying around, which is a great move and the weapon does pretty massive bonus-damage to her.

The fireballs are really a nuisance, for sure. But my biggest fear of her is her feinted grab. She can at times pretend to do one thing and quickly cancel into a grab which really nukes you as you noted.

Just that I feel with Awakened Alma a lot of players, even JTB, never went deep into her since by that point in the game you just got the TDS so everybody just uses that.

Great OST too imo. One of the game's best soundtracks and a killer opening cutscene. It's a minor detail but I just love how Ryu re-adjusts his stance against her after she dodges his swing. He's really getting ready. Cool stuff.

Here's me doing her with Warhammer Only:
https://youtu.be/HATXnImFVH0?t=485

I get a big greedy around halfway through sadly. Still a good run. Around halfway I just wait for the talisman to proc to get my Ninpo back.

She's pretty brutal if you don't go all out though. I.e. use ninpo to cover your recovery. I once did her with the Wooden Sword and without items and ninpo and it took for-fucking-ever and that was on Hard iirc.

I still had some fun moments when i did make an opening on her, but I item spammed through it.
Black is great but I prefer NG2. Don't like the back tracking and platforming of NGB.
Also the weapons are very limited compared to NG2. String wise. 2 has so many strings and they all have different delimb properties, love the complexity.

NGB just has me itching to go back to 2 to finish my MS run and maybe do a few MS 1 weapon type only runs.
I will come back to NGB. I mean damn I was so excited to fight cat fiends after all of the videos I have seen.... and they just aren't on normal. So disappointing.
Normal is very boring in the back half as they replace the fun spider clan, with the bone fiends that cannot break blocks, so you can just counter them perfectly safe. So dull.

I can attest to the fact that Normal puts me to sleep. I'm probably going to end up getting a hacked save on my upcoming classic Xbox just so I can start on Master Ninja.

> string wise
Yeah NGII is far superior in that regard. NG:B also has a lot of ... filler attacks. In NGII due to the enemy states every string had some use, but in NG:B there's a few that just 'exist'. There's also a lot of 'doubles'. The Kitetsu is great for example, but it only has two really useful moves, three if you push it. There's also like 4 freak'n "big blade" weapons with the same moveset barring some variation. Nunchuck and flails etc. You get the point.

Personally NGII is by far the superior title in terms of combat. Master Ninja NG:B is a lot more spicy though, and I have to say I miss how mobile the nemies were in NG:B. They'd wallrun etc. and that'stuff's completely absent in NGII almost.

I watched JTBs NGB weapon breakdowns, and yeah each weapon has 2-3 strings you should use, the rest are just a waste. Either too much recovery, not enough damage etc. The heavies are the same weapon mostly, warhammer is pointlessish. They should have maybe gave the warhammer earlier, to give a reason to use it?

You can tell in 2 Itagaki wanted every weapon to have as much depth as a fighting game character.
I pulled up the DS movelist in 2 and was like damn. You start with like a six string at the start, and the page scrolls so long.

Also man the frame rate on 2 on 360 is bad. I am browsing locally to try and find a series S or something haha, don't know if I will buy that just for NG lol but it is tempting.

The Series S ironically performs worse than the One X, so keep that in mind. Still, I bought the Xbox One X back then solely for Ninja Gaiden II and haven't regretted it. Probably one of the best console I've ever owned, it's crazy how underappreciated it is.

> Warhammer
To us, but you have to remember it was 2005 and most players wouldn't find the Dabi so they'd be hopelessly stuck haha. I kind of like the idea of making the Dabi an hidden weapon, they just didn't hide it well enough. The game is so optimized at this point by players it's easy to forget that. I do like the Warhammer more though. >Y can hit twice for whatever reason sometimes which is jsut delightful jank.

But yeah some moves are just trash. I always liked the running lunar heavy move, looks super cool. But might as well just reset the game every time I use it haha

>The Series S ironically performs worse than the One X

So I caved and bought a series S haha.
It was only $100 over retail price.
I would love to find a digital foundry style framerate test of the series s vs one x for ng2, couldn't find one.
That said here the one X is as expensive as the series s if not more, and I would rather have a console that can handle future games cpu wise.

Farmed the ninjas at the steps near the bridge with the archers on the first area some.
When I did that on 360 yesterday the frame rate TANKED after doing it 4 or 5 times.
On series S I could do it forever and the framerate never dipped.

It is crazy the detail in NG2 you don't notice at the trash 360 resolution. So much stuff in the backgrounds.

Also was very interested in the auto HDR for old games, don't thinks its on one x.
The auto HDR in ninja gaiden 2 looks so awesome, the neon pops great in the first area.
BLACK on gamepass looked awesome.
Also gonna try the old splinter cell games I think.

Yeah the game is seriously beautiful to look at, which still takes me by surprise. There's so many details, sharp texturework, great animations, good lighting, stage variation. I remember it wasn't hailed as being as big a leap as Black was in terms of presentation, but it is seriously good looking and has aged very gracefully.

> Splinter Cell games
They run and play fantastic on the system. Chaos Theory, thanks to "Xbox One X Enchanced", look like a game that could've released today in some ways. The lighting is out of this world. Plays like a charm too. The first game runs great too, looks beautifully and comes with the free DLC that's a bitch to get otherwise. Only mission missing from this version is the Nuclear Plant, which is still PS2 exclusive (terrible mission though, so you don't miss much imo).

>Splinter Cell

How is saving handled on these old games? I have tried googling, but can't find it. Old stealth games can be annoying with saving,

http://ngrealm.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1940

I have a couple questions on this thread.
Am I correct in saying for On Landing Instant Running Y, the Y need to be input a bit after the land in Ryus run state.
If i try to do it on land I just get haze straight slash, maybe I don't understand it properly.

Do you know what JTB talking about with this ?

"Found a very useful bit of tech involving the Dragon Swords ET. Always used to think it was a pretty useless move but on hit against ninjas it guarantees you a follow up FS while they're still grounded resulting in an instand kill. "

Also is there anywhere with delimb rates on weapons? Or is it all just hearsay and experience.

Mentor is such a weird difficulty and imo more difficult(or maybe a better word "annoying") on chapter one than MS, assuming the player is decent.
Now obviously if a player can't understand IS, then MS will be harder.

Charge a ut on a a delimbed white ninja, he might toss a shirken or two, minimal damage.
Try that on a tac ninja, they unload into you and do huge damage.
They also don't let you enjoy the game at all as far as fun combos, you just get lit up.
If you get stuck with 3 IS but see an ot near by, you could do an x combo delay Y into OT safe.
Tac ninjas just light you up during said combo.
Hate mentor. Also give me a mage any day over a rocket ninja spamming horseshit everywhere.

> SC
Depends on the game and version. SC1 is checkpoint based, same with SC2. SC3 has manual saving. They're both okay I'd say. Checkpoints give more tension, but SC1 and 2 are extremely trial and error, which sucks. SC3's manual saving is great, but it can ruin tension and consequences. Doing a no-save run of that game is a lot of fun though.

SC1HD and SC2HD don't have checkpoints though, they have a save-system like SC3.

> thread questions
Enemies in the air or on the ground are OHKO'd by Flying Swallow (decap/vivisection), the ET simply knocks them down though imo there are better ways to get this state i.e. XY(hold) into FS. If you grab grounded enemies with a Kusarigama grab Ryu goes for the decap instead of a regular limb removal too (OHKO).

> running attacks
You need to give the game a few frames to register your 'running state'. I tend to just delay it, or do a >X on landing which automatically transitions into a running state if you hold forward during the attack.

> delimb rates
No datadump, just hearsay and experiences. I can give you most of the 'guesswork numbers' and highlighted moves if you wish. Some moves also have a very specific limb removal i.e. XX>XY with the dual katana's always going for the head. Some like XX>XXX with the dual katana's always goes for the left-arm, which is great against those Striggans to remove their cannon.

> Mentor mode
You aren't alone in that, I've heard that notion a lot of times. Personally I like fighting tact.ninjas, though I prefer regulars and IS. They just feel out of place mostly. They're great fun in the Flying Fortress stage though.

I played SPlinter cell when I was younger and I remember the atmosphere was so good, and it was scary as hell back then ha.
I really loved double agent.


> running attacks
Ok then I've been doing them right. Very useful and so much safer than Izuna.

>the dual katana's always goes for the left-arm, which is great against those Striggans to remove their cannon.
That is crazy i never knew there were limb specific moves.

Tac ninjas are a good enemy to fight in their area. But to fill the entire first area with them,and being so weak at the start is blegh.
I might be giving Itagaki too much design credit, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are there to force players to get good at instant UTs.
If some how the player made it through warrior without learning how to properly UT, or skipped warrior which i think you can do if you beat acolyte.
Judging by the streams of master collection new people are really ass and know nothing about UTs and almost never charge, granted the games don't really explain it well.


Also was devastated to see you cannot carry over Original Xbox save data in the cloud to the new consoles.
I really don't want to play normal again ha.

Also how did they fuck up the great karma system in NGB? Such a shame.

> SC
Fantastic games with great characters, stories and missions. I still consider SC3 to be the pinnacle of stealth games, despite it still failing in some ways (lethalVnonlethal being borked etc.). Double Agent is one continous anxiety attack, such a tense game.

> limb specific
Yeah it's really great. Note that arms and legs can have a preference. I.e. XX>XXX with the Dual Katana's has a higher chance of getting the left arm, but it might still get the right arm too if you're unlucky. Same with the legs. Generally this doesn't matter except with some rare foes.

Archers cannot shoot if they lose an arm, but if they lose a leg they'll still shoot their bow at times for example.

Decapitations are of course a complete OHKO except on Striggans. The Flails has the easiest and most common decapitations moves (360Y and XXYY). You can decimate entire groups with it that way, great fun.

> Itagaki too much credit
The documentary showed that he reviewed nearly every combat encounter, down to 'how do the enemies appear' i.e. Van Gelfs running towards you from off-screen instead of just warping in. I don't think he did every one of them though, as some are literally just "enemy appears out of thin air". I think if he'd see what Hayashi and co. did with Sigma 2 though, with Tact ninjas literally falling from the sky, he'd set fire to every copy.

> MC streams
I wrote the guide for those players, but Steam refused to add the guide and Reddit doesn't have mods so it won't be pinned there either. Already heard of a lot of DMC streamers hating it for the expected reasons.

> Xbox Original save transfers
Had the exact same issue. Haven't touched Black since then. Currently eyeing an Original Xbox to play NG:B on and just put a hacked save on it somehow. Really, really, really don't want to replay it on Normal, Hard and Very Hard again.

> Karma
It was always a bit wack imo. I like the idea of it and the way you can optimize it clearly attracts certain players, but it was never my thing. It's nice that it's there but it really promotes a dull playstyle imo and is at times way too RNG based. NGII is even worse since NG+ is allowed for the leaderboards. So everyone is just spamming the last hit of the Kusa UT. Takes literal ages. I remember for the first fight I delimbed every foe with the Claws, then spammed the final Kusa hit. Took like 20 minutes just for that fight.

> Karma in NG2
I think it's one of those things that were rushed. I'm sure Itagaki would have put time limits for every fight to prevent the Kusa's UT spamming if he had more time. Survival missions have a different scoring system that utilizes green essence and I prefer that Karma system even over NGB.

NGB's Story Mode and Mission Mode have a really good Karma System but you have to play it on a higher level to appreciate it. Bad players could learn that spamming UTs is the most efficient way to play NG but it's false and reductive even in this type of run if you want the highest score. Karma runners are able to get the maximum number of UTs in every fight while they multitask a lot of different things: they keep track of time, essence for upgrades, survivability and the they drag essence for later fights if necessary.

I prefer challenge or restricted runs but karma runs are interesting too and they are definitely an alternative way to play the game, but not the only one of course.

>they multitask a lot of different things: they keep track of time, essence for upgrades, survivability and the they drag essence for later fights if necessary.

Yeah it's actually really hard to do and It is so fascinating to me, I love that each difficulty is it's own class since they all have different requirements.
I am not really a score guy but I might have been into this back then if I played the game and was a bit older.
I could listen to JTB and Bigalski talk about the Karma days all day, so interesting.

I also think it would be awesome if someone came out of nowhere with a new high score because they were just in their basement training NGB like Rocky.
But I really don't think we'll ever see new high scores without a proper NGB remaster with leaderboards.

I think it's an interesting thing to look at and read up about, how all the elements are factored in, how to get as many UTs and Essence within a specific time constraint, trying to get out as much points as possible - conceptually it's more of a puzzle game almost. It just is one that puts me to sleep when I actually have to play it. It's really for a specific audience, just like getting high-scores in arcade machines was.

> NGII karma
I think the mechanic in NGII's trials is fantastic, though at times a tad too random. Most of my highscores were really blind luck honestly if the game graced me with Green Orbs (there's no guaranteed way to make them drop IIRC, if there is I couldn't find it). So for scoring that's probably a nightmare, since you need to have a good run and good RNG. Personally though, I love it, it's so hectic and I love how it also just works in tandem with other existing mechanics i.e. green-orbs can charge UTs.

I kind of also like the idea of Razor's Edge implementing Karma in a currency way, though the removal of items hampered that a lot imo. I think the originals had it best still. Essence being used to replenish equipment, used for items and upgrades really was a great balance as you always had to think "Do I need items....or do I want to save up for that level 3 lunar" etc.

Been playing some Sigma 2 this week due to MC and I'm rocking infinite healing items basically since they are the only thing you can buy...

One of the beauties of NG for me is that it has all these elements to it, and you can ignore what they do for you, but they always come into play somehow. You can not care about Karma, but still want to use Essence smartly, which Karma runners also want to do etc.

Is there a way to not absorb all of the essence when there is more than 2?
I have noticed sometimes it just pulls two for the UT, but most of the time it takes all of the essence near me.

Also I hate how if you are blocking and you don't push the left stick fast enough Ryu just slowly turns. Why is that in the game?

No clue as to why they added the turn, it's super annoying.

> essence
Not really. Generally speaking though after a kill I jump around, quickly letting go of block and pressing it again to grab my essence selectively while leaving two around for the killing blow.

I wanted to do weapon mastery runs to learn the weapons well before getting into master ninja. I haven't even touched the 3 or 4 of them.
I don''t find mentor good for learning the combos because of all the chip damage you take so I am doing them on warrior for now.

I never did the ToVs before, was always to scared.
Started with DS. The second ToV (Van gelfs)with the DS only is tough. I found out through TGD's no damage that they are passive with their shots when off screen so that helped.
If I had upgraded inferno instead of wind blade that would have been easier for health and ninpo drops. Level 3 wind blade isn't good on them as the will stay away and you can't aim it.
At best you delimb anyway.
UT for DS misses all the time on Van gelfs, even when they are close. The move just doesn't like their hit box.

Very tough, took a few tries, but really taught me soo much about that enemy and the DS in general.
This game is great.

EDIT: It is weird that Lycans seem to be able to just throw limbs at will as soon as there is a dead enemy.
I killed one guy and an enemy on the other side of the map threw a leg that I never even cut off.

Yeah NGII really is peak-videogames imo.

> TOV
Great challenges usually, some are a bit dull or way too grindy - especially the last one. My favourite is still the first one, just such a great display of the game's combat and chaos. Doing that one no-damage is super tough but fun.

> van gelfs
Great enemy to style on if you're comfortable with them, but you can also nuke them hard which I like. Golden Gelfs really put the fear of god in me though, when I hear their shout...that's some good old PTSD right there.

> Lycans
IIRC the throw is just a random attack, they can start the fight with it. They don't need to have lost a limb to be able to throw at you.

>IIRC the throw is just a random attack, they can start the fight with it

They don't throw until you delimb or kill one, not sure which though.
This is a key strat in ToV on chapter 5 master ninja. Dogs and Werewolfs. As long as you don't kill a werewolf before the dogs, you don't have to deal with body parts.

It's not limited though, since I remember being OHKO'd once by them due to so many throwing them at the same time in the arena, while I wasn't doing very well at all. So I think it's tied to just one missing a limb then.

Pretty neat! Didn't know this.

I am going to get the MC for RE one of these days...


and I am contemplating OG 3 before RE ha.
I really want to see how much improved in RE first hand. At most it would be a quick playthrough on normal, so shouldn't take too long.
I know I shouldn't though.

Seeing as RE came out like a 8 months after 3, I wonder if 3 was rushed out and all of the RE stuff was meant to be there originally.

From my research I can note that most of the content, be it Ninpo, weapons etc. were planned DLC packs for vanilla NG3 down the road. Stuff like the costumes, the new combat system etc. were not however. NG3 got a pretty big backlash, so they wanted to make ammends.

At the time Razor's Edge was already in pre-production for the WiiU, which would be a port of NG3 with all the DLC added to it. They took that chance to revamp the game in 6~ months (ballsy), which became NG3:RE that we have now.

Honestly I'd play it in reverse almost. NG3:RE really is the definitive release, see NG3 like NG2004 - a curious game you can play afterwards to see the little changes. And if you do, get NG3 on the PS3 and play it with the PSMove for the true "shoot me now" experience.

>PS3 and play it with the PSMove

ha damn that would be truly awful. Waggle for SoB infinites.

Original Ninja Gaiden 3 is definitely worth playing, just to see the trainwreck. My memories of it are foggy, but I remember only getting around halfway through Master Ninja before quitting.

I will be playing it for the memes purely, and I like to suffer.

The Move functionality is so terrible it's hilarious. I did a run on Normal back in the day and it is just ridiculous that it is even a thing.