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Going back into NG2

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1 Going back into NG2 on Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:57 am

I considered myself tough shit having done massive challenging runs on Sigma 2 and Black, so going into this I almost felt sorry for the game. I got my ass handed to me. The game did not let up, Chapter 3 on Master Ninja broke me and made me take out the disc and only just put it back in yesterday.

The game is really rough, what does help is that you focus on playing more strategic instead of just going ham in a smart way. Try to focus killing enemies with UT's for more orbs and use the delimbs smartly. Don't focus on killing enemies, focus on dying slower than them. What I mean by smart delimbs is for instance delimbing a guy so that he is 'disabled' (you can quickly delimb with moves like >Y with the Claws). This gives you a quick way to get i.frames via an OT if needed (like when becoming a christmas tree of exploding shurikens), but also gives more breathing room in some fights (especially in ones where more enemies spawn). Don't be afraid to spam 360T OLUTS with the Lunar or going ham with the Swallow>Izuna with the Claws. Yes it is cheap, but this game pulls no punches so neither should we.

Almost made it through Chapter 3 yesterday but took a break to play some of the Survival Challenges. Having a good time all in all and really hope to get some experience in. My gf is away for two weeks for work so I have all the time in the world to become a master ninja.

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2 Re: Going back into NG2 on Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:27 pm

Birdman


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What is up with this game? How does the combat work compared to the others and how are you getting destroyed?

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3 Re: Going back into NG2 on Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:55 pm

The ranged projectiles are just a nightmare. I wasn't recording but it can get extremely hard to even see what is going on with explosions everywhere, massive framerate drops and more. The biggest difficulty imo is the change in mindset, it really wants you to play very agressive, while the original was very defensive based.

It really is the type of game that doesn't hold back. If foes can lock you down completely, they will. They will destroy you with a billion projectiles, relentless offense and more. Once you get through it it feels great though. Someone once said NG2 isn't about winning: it is about dying slower than your enemies.

https://youtu.be/AjQvslcKZ98?t=10m40s is a good example. Like look at all those explosions.
Note that the above video is of generally considered to be the best NG2 player. That puts things into perspective.

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4 Re: Going back into NG2 on Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:14 pm

Cryoshock

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I bought this for about £2 awhile ago. I played it for a bit. And holy fucking shit did I get turned into a pincushion many times over. The AI has zero chill. Hard agree that the mindset is the most difficult thing to adjust to, not just because of how different it is from NG1, but because you also have to accept that taking damage is just par for the course. When you like doing things "flawlessly," that can be a real obstacle.

I only played for a day or two before I realised that I just didn't have the desire to push myself through the growing pains and git gud at the time. I plan on coming back to it at some point and giving a solid shot; the combat is everything I like to see in games: it's about being fast, brutal and efficient. My holy trinity lol.

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5 Re: Going back into NG2 on Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:38 am

Birdman


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Just watched the video. Wtf?

Is there any way to avoid damage?

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6 Re: Going back into NG2 on Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:28 am

Hey Cryo! Good to see you again.

The game is really no holds bared which I kind of also respect. It is that rare type of game that actually doesn't even let you enjoy the game before getting really good at it. If you're bad or not a master ninja yourself you'll have to scrape through it using cheap and exploitive tactics. Being able to actually play the game is almost its reward for mastery.

I once read a beautiful comment (that I also noted above) that NG2 isn't about winning, but about dying slower than your enemies. It really is a fantastic game held back only by technology at the time (lag) and your own person. This game gives me PTSD haha.

@Birdman wrote:Just watched the video. Wtf?

Is there any way to avoid damage?

You can No-Damage the game, it has been done by one person in the world. And over the course of nearly a few years, using multiple saves etc. As noted above, the game isn't about playing flawless or winning, but about survival. The game doesn't meassure in rank or no damaging fights, beating it is already an accomplishment.

That said there are methods to avoid damage. Ultimate Techniques are fully i.framed upon activation. Grabs are i.framed, so is the dodge. Wall Attacks as well. Delimb-OT's as well. The whole game is about finding openings and creating them while making sure you have a 'way out' via i.frames available at all times.

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7 Re: Going back into NG2 on Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:24 pm

Cryoshock

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Hey again, hope things are going well for you. I really liked your article on Enemy Design. The bad guys never seem to get enough attention in games, which is a shame.

I feel like their whole philosophy while making it was "gitting gud is its own reward" lol. NG2 is basically that sensei who just kicks your ass every session while you slowly pick up on what they're doing, piece-by-piece, biting through the pain and humiliation until you can finally spar on-par with them. A bit dramatic maybe, but that's how I'd put it.

I'm probably going to dive back into it after I've had my fill of Ys VIII. I've picked up on a few tactics from watching gameplay videos, like finding the moves that can de-limb, the ones that have iframes, etc. I didn't think of using delimbing as a CC method like you mentioned, but I'm definitely taking note of it now.
If I do decide to tough it out, I want to be able to make good use of a weapons moveset; using the same few moves over and over just isn't that fun, even if it's more practical.

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8 Re: Going back into NG2 on Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:21 pm

The trick about CC'ing an enemy I got from either Kajiwotore (also here) or from a user on NGrealm, I forget. But it is a really 'duh' move that makes you wonder why you never realized it yourself. Works wonders especially in Trials of Valor, allowing you to funnel enemies as it were. 

Moveset knowledge helps a ton, especially the delimb%. I don't know them by heart myself but know at least one or two moves per weapon that are the highest deblimb% for that particular tool, helps in the thick of battle. I can understand you not wanting to spam the same thing over and over again, but I mostly used that in the first few chapters to buil essence and, honestly, because I was scared.

Have to note that the game just is merciless in a funny way. I was doing a Trial of Valor and managed to get all the spawns down so that there were 4 delimbed IS ninjas crawling around while the 5th was regular (and thus, when killed, would spawn the next, giving an easy 1v1 fight). I started to grab my Dragon Sword and toy with him and all was going great. Then suddenly those 4 delimbed guys decided to become snipers, shot me full of holes and during my dodge the guy I was fighting did a kamikazi-grab and killed me. Dead. Typical NG2 hahahaha!

> Ys VIII
I remember you noting this before, still enjoying yourself? Is your new avatar also from this game?

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9 Re: Going back into NG2 on Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:18 am

Finally getting into the swing of things. Managed to almost get halfway through Chapter 6, beat all the ToV's so far. The last one in Chapter 5 was really tough, almost requiring perfect spacing and UTchains to even get through the first 'wave'. Having a lot of fun with it that's for sure!

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10 Re: Going back into NG2 on Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:59 am

I'm finding that quick area of effect moves like On Landing X with the Dragon Sword and XYYYY with the Lunar work wonders in groups as they delimb, stun and deal high damage. Using jumping XX OLUT with the Lunar is also gold, as the enemy lands from the XX with quite some recovery allowing either an ET, UT or OT on landing (or followup move if 1v1). Having a lot of fun now!

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11 Re: Going back into NG2 on Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:05 pm

Finally beat it, damn that felt good. Once it clicked it really wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. Some chapters were a lot easier than I'd thought and some were just as annoying (the final boss). I think my fright of Sigma 2 really held me back, as the damage output in that game was just so insane with some attacks dealing 90% max hp on block or grabs dealing 100% damage. 
As such I played very carefully in this game, and later-on realized you should just go ham. Getting hit isn't that big of a deal.

Already on my NG+ run to toy around and halfway through chapter 4 in one go. Absolutely fantastic game. What a ride. Really enjoy finding which moves delimb which bodypart from which weapon too. For instance the XX>XXX from the BotA delimbs the canon part of those canon-zombies, great for the ToV to kite them around. Stuff like that, I love that!

Unless the hype passes I might at least record a BotA only run. Might do some other runs in the following years. Love that I finally understand this game so that I can play it more!

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12 Re: Going back into NG2 on Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:54 am

Birdman


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How does delimb work exactly?
Is it based on move? damage? where exactly any attack connected?

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13 Re: Going back into NG2 on Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:31 am

Each move has a delimb-chance based on where you hit them, weapon level, enemy level, difficulty level and the innate percentage of the attack to delimb. Some weapon attacks have a huge base delimb% like >Y of the Talons and the Flails. Some attacks like the Flying Swallow tend to go for the head, but some also just have a - I think - random chance which limb they remove. XXYY with the Flails for instance has a huge chance to behead, but can also just cut off an arm.
The XX>XXX of the Dual Katanas has a high chance of removing the canon-arm of the Sprigans but only if you're standing on that side.

It is unrelated to damage done from what I recall. The first hit you do can delimb if you're lucky.

You can manipulate the system a bit. For instance Guillotine Throwing a foe against a wall is a guaranteed delimb, as are some projectiles.

In terms of Ultimate Techniques some have a 100% delimb-chance like the Level 1 UT of the Tonfa, while the Level 1 UT of the Katana has 0%.

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14 Re: Going back into NG2 on Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:44 am

Getting actually decent at this game. Not using UTs/items/ninpo has taught me a lot about the base moveset, enemy ai etc. The game is still flawed at times with around 50% of my deaths being far out of my control.

I've died because an UT of mine mid animation stopped because I was landing on stairs, got grabbed and died. I've had the whole OT system be disabled, I've had a mage that could not be GT'd (the command would not activate, ever, on that particular mage). I've seen it all. Even had an OT whiff but kill another foe (with the hit, not the i.framed animation), only to have the foe I wanted to OT grab me and kill me.

Such a shame the game didn't get that one month of extra polish.

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