Dante's Inferno

Finally popped this game in again yesterday, never played it for more than 10 minutes originally. Pretty fun title so far, albeit a very clear page-by-page rip of God of War, especially in terms of mechanics. Still, very entertaining. Anyone else played it?

Not really. I am interested in it though. How is the replay value?

It's a decent God of War rip-off so far (very clearly, nearly beat-by-beat). But it does get a lot of things wrong, the over emphasis on button mashing QTE's and 'blink and you die' QTE's really are a nuissance. Replay Value is same as God of War i.e. only if you like higher difficulties or challenge runs.

I remember playing this back when it came out and even things like the climbing animations were identical to GoW. Am I remembering that wrong?

A lot of it is very identical yeah, the double jump animation is really similar too. It's a shame since the game has some good ideas, but it never distinquishes itself outside of "Kratos in Italian mythos" done by the B-team. Even the story is somewhat similar (redemption arc against a pantheon), also in setup (starts in medias res with flashbacks).

Only thing that stands out is the Cross and it's ranged abilities, pretty novel weapon as far as action-games go imo.

Michael Cheng one of the designers on Dante was a level designer on GOW 2,3, and 2018. So simply calling it a rip off isn't quite accurate. Great game.

For real? Had no clue, I'm considering writing a piece on it down the road so that's interesting stuff. Surprised that he jumped back and forth between studios. Especially considering GoWIII and DI launched nearly back to back (one month difference in 2010). A freelance agent?

Have to say the whole timing of the game feels weird. God of War III had a huge hype-train behind it, to put out a game so similar one month before GoWIII feels weird looking back.

As noted, it has some fun mechanics, but I also feels it lacks some personality in terms of gameplay. It really looked too closely to God of War, using it as a template I feel. On the one hand, it is a good game, on the other I'd say it could've used a closer look at some of its mechanics that weren't that clear cut or well done in GoW i.e. its QTEs and at times the wonky platforming.

I don't mind clones, or whatever the term behind it. But I do mind it when it also copies the bad parts.

Note, these aren't an analysis by any means, just my 5 cents after playing the game for a few hours.

It does a lot of unique things that your average souls/batman clone wouldn't do these days. The split skill tree of ranged or melee was a great idea. Cross is op for sure, but God of War doesn't have much permanence in upgrades. I have been able to lvl up everything in the GOW trilogy by the end. Dante forces you to make the "good or bad" choices and stick to it or you won't get deep into either tree.
The equipable items were a great idea too. Things like increasing super armor during moves, was novel to say the least. Visually Dante rivals GOW and imo often surpasses it. I am much more into Christian mythology over Greek, so maybe I am biased. But if Michael Cheng brought anything it was some really interesting levels. The since of place and overall progression going between each layer of hell was fantastic.

How far are you into the game Roy and what difficulty? I remember Infernal being rough, I wish it was unlocked from the start. Sad we will never see a pc release.

Beat the game on Infernal over the weekend. I like the title, but also have a lot of grievances over it. I think the Relic system is by far the most interesting part of the combat. Managed to find all of them eventually and honestly I really like how they play to different strengths. Some really fit my playstyle (grab emphasis) and others my boss tactics (more cross damage).

A few were too good I feel, like the Mana Regeneration practically snapping the game in half if you dared to go Holy. But overall, this really was the best part for me.

Combat wise I liked the foes and some of the mechanics, really daring it had a ranged main attack weapon as an option. Enemies start out fun, but I was a bit disappointed (in general) how the game falters after Greed. Each layer until then had unique concepts, enemies, ideas going on. But after Greed you really feel like the designers felt "fuck me, we only have a few days left and still 6 more layers of hell to design" and just rushed it. No real unique enemies outside of "regular demon but now with wings or on fire". And the enviroments are a lot less detailed as well. Also feel the game could've used some juxtapositioning in its design. It is creepy at first, but after a few hours you almost don't hear the screaming or see the pleading people anymore since it is just the same over and over again. Think it could've used some balance in that regard. Other than that I agree, fantastic world design.

In regards to combat though, fun enemies albeit a bit one note. Not a lot of styling options and efficiency begins and dies with "launch into grab infinite". That's still fantastic, but what I miss is application. In God of War you could play smartly with your grabs, smack foes into another, ring them out etc. Here no such thing. Also not a fan of the constant mashing for Absolution.

Overall a fun diversion, but also rang hollow with me in some aspects. I did take notes, so I might do a Stinger piece on it more in depth.

Also: fuck the final boss on Infernal difficulty. That guy nearly broke me, because he took so long to kill. 8 minutes where-in a single mistake kills you is way too much for a non-challenge run. Might attempt a NUR and just quit at him because that's just not possible I feel. Especially since he can teleport off screen into one of three random attacks that you cannot predict. If you dodge and he does the shockwave, you die. Such infernal (ha) design.

>Christian Myth
Being that this is mostly the Divine Comedy (some asshurt poet being told to fuck off and/or die who wrote a story of totally not Greek version of the Nordic name for the underworld as having people he didn't care for in different layers while pushing Eastern philosophy *until some heretics pushed it like it was canon*), I don't know about all that. Still pretty neat (as one who enjoys Greek Myth). Poetic Justice does suit the Italians. Certain romantic quality to it (though I find myself in the more extreme camp for scale as with the Asians more fond of disproportionate retribution *then again, Hell is sort of just that in this depiction of what should just be Sheol*). The whole war in Heaven then is as amusing as it is retarded (worse being the Enoch business another title is based on).

>relics
I remember disliking the auto-leveling nature (opting in for them once qualified would have suited me better *or even just putting EXP into them* as with the ability to disable upgrades already purchased like Bayo with moves you no longer wish to have active *along with the sampling option since there is no sellback for unlocks to pull stunts like with DMC4 and beyond*). Some of them were swell, sure. I remember reading about the DLC cases (never got around to using them despite having the digital version with them after having played the disc for my actual runwork). Seemed neat (one in particular stuck out as having potential to give hope for a particular fight I had in mind).

>lopsided favoring of Holy
It wasn't just that Holy was OP, Unholy was pretty sub-par (if not plain shit). Much was not as I would have liked it (as with no option to be a manly man with the normal Halberd from the start and attempt to fight through the game as just a man *none of the powers associated with the supernatural* if only until killed *though just beating a much harder Death to earn this chance would have been to my liking*). Scythe really got the shaft. It couldn't do a lot of the neat shit SoD could (apply explosive charges to foes, do a Power % ignoring attack with strong hit properties capable of working foes against each other or using the environment, lay bombs, very quick and safe launcher access, etc.).

Even Nioh had a more interesting take with the sweeps, launch into air multi-hit (the latter able to multi-head strike, launch, etc. *with one version blinding enemies that were afflicted with burning status for DoT that also messed with stamina regen if I'm remembering the right title*, ground stab, backstab, charged strike (AI really didn't often know how to deal with this), etc. NG's Lunar big dicks all over it. The only two things that stand out to me with the Scythe (that certainly couldn't do as the DaS1 Lifehunt using a 'Bleed' system with upgrades and/or relics even) would be one air special (stretching for ground-to-air stab *no ability to pull yourself to them or them to you much less follow-up*, which was your only real Unholy tool for most of Lucifer Stage 1 until he had a CS moment to grab pulling into the chance to air combo his face a little) and the upgraded ability to reach further with the grapple (that itself seems like an upgrade move, frankly *how I felt about it in GoW:A when OS went from a hug to always being Tether*).

Can't remember having a notable evade attack (GoW is often bad with this, too), no air evade (double jump couldn't become OP nonsense like in LoS with even the Holy Path and Relics, sadly), no glide (times where being able to control fall speed would help) though you could air block to fall faster (air block itself being a very GoW thing *as with the lack of air parry*), very meh counter-attacks (just don't recall anything potent like so much as insta-ender access or some variation of specials right out of them *or projectile returns*), etc. Just goes on and on with how Unholy was lacking. Holy had all sorts of shit working in its favor (very nearly making it akin to SWFU1 where might was nothing to magic *just that MP wasn't spent on Holy necessarily and it was still a weapon though often acting the part of a projectile more than melee*). Don't really feel like going over it much. Still don't get why they didn't give us some measure of control over which kill animation one gets (GoWII was guilty of RNG finishers for Rhodian Soldiers, itself).

Being made by the same people as Dead Space, I wanted to see the game have a delimb system with OT (like NG2). That would have really helped the Unholy path, I'd wager. Really felt like they ran out of imagination and steam in circle five (already had a clear drop-off by four, even). Royboy clearly feels the same. They had to have run short on time/funds as there were still plenty of things from the source to work with. The boiling blood with people clawing at each other to avoid drowning lacked the Centaur archers (meant to shoot those that look like they might actually escape). If they really were running low on inspiration from the Inferno, just borrow from Christian lore (often pagan gods later written in as demons as with Diablo, Baal, Mephisto, etc.). Jewish mysticism adds Golem, Lilith, etc. The game had minotaurs, but only one class of them (GoW has had many sizes with varying abilities). The main thing to avoid would be too many generic demons (which is what the last portions of the game are aside from borrowing foes from lower layers *something that should only happen in challenge modes*).

>launch and infinite air grab
For Unholy, yes. Holy doesn't have to bother with even that, really. Having tons more enviro-hazards able to be used against foes would be grand as with factions, in-fighting and friendly fire.

>collisions
Though GoW didn't really let wall/object collisions shine nearly as much as it should have (GoWIII was the big chance, but Derek and Eric left, then Barlog went with them leaving fools who nerfed the Hell out of the games remainder while no doubt being responsible for Skorpius "Monster Truck" Jackson and other hilarious fuck-ups). At least the trilogy's end had grabs into walls (just not wall grabs). Traversal combat still existed (GoW:A took that away). Even added cases other than just Target ONLY (had Agent ONLY and Agent/Target *though that can only be half types rather than full as a possibility*). Losing the scaling with Enemy Power % did a real number on the appeal (runs where Power % is low, we don't get higher modifiers from upgrading, etc. encourage using things that ignore Power % if not running off the empowered enemies). A nifty mechanic like petrification would have been desirable (pretty sure DI didn't have any statuses to speak of *not even DoT*). Magic was mostly lackluster in DI as I recall (the self-buff was god king while the rest were pleb tier). Needed 'items' (regenerating MP) as a system if they were going to be so terrible. Definitely don't balance one of the fights on VH for exploiting the most OP approach (else you are in for trouble *sort of like the clones in GoW1, though that was at least a protection mission which is itself a very daring thing for these games as you don't catch Dante or Ryu having to put up with such horror*).

>NUR Lucifer
>not possible
I'd be less concerned about the NUR part and more worried about if it were Unholy ONLY (as we discussed). Just wish I'd gotten to test the runs I had planned. Especially with the DLC relic that might work as advertised (regarding blocking the unblockable). S2 and S3 are less my concern (the former is for Holy to fret over). S1's prospects are bleak with the RNG tornadoes catching you out of the air for huge damage into a QTE to mitigate a tiny bit of bonus DMG (should be at least the other way around *aside from giving them set patterns as with shockwaves or at least base them on something other than randomness like positioning*). Learning the changing shockwave patterns isn't too bad. The rarity of attack openings would be trying (survive for a few minutes so he drops his hand, grapple and air slap his face for probably 1% HP and repeat until you truly feel immersed in Hell).