GhostWire: Tokyo

Made by Tango, of Evil Within fame. They were adament to point out that it is an Action Adventure game, not a surival horror title. Mikami's influence is unknown at this point.

Did you see those noodles???

Looks interesting. I'll keep my eye on this

I really want to see some gameplay first, but with Mikami I know it will be good. Just curious to see how involved he is in it.

I am holding out hope for a brawler, or God Hand spiritual successor. I know he talked about wanting to do it, and action games are kind of on a rise. It is time. Hopefully not another shooter.
Either way, a unique action adventure in an interesting world is exciting.

I was giddy when Mikami stepped out on stage. Can’t wait to see more.

I'm interested as well. I hope the gameplay comes soon!

He really stole the show with his witty personality. Everyone making larger than life speeches about "what gaming means to us" and stuff, and he just says "hi". Gotta love him!

Should be noted that Mikami is not directing this game, his new pupil is: Ikumi Nakamura.

This really is another John Johanas situation, new blood that inspires him that he gives a time to shine using his brand and name. Really love the guy for doing this. He struck gold with Johanas (TEW2 was fantastic), so here's hoping we get more out of it!

This game just got a huge shakeup. Its leading director left the studio, and Mikami will now personally be directing the project. Hold on to your hats guys, we're getting a new Mikami game...

Royta/Raeng wrote:This game just got a huge shakeup. Its leading director left the studio, and Mikami will now personally be directing the project. Hold on to your hats guys, we're getting a new Mikami game...

Have they confirmed that Mikami will be directing it?
Also wasn't she the writer and art director?

Nope, she was full on directing that title, being mentored by Mikami / supervised by him.

Tango continues to be led by the legendary Shinji Mikami and his talented team in the development of Ghostwire: Tokyo. We look forward to sharing more on what they’re creating in the coming months.”

^quote from Bethesda. I may have jumped the gun a bit, but it sounds like Mikami is at the helm.

I see, that's good news.

As long as it's good.

I hope she finds a cool place to work that keeps her happy, sounds like she was getting creative burnout or something there. But YO, Mikami directing now brought this from a meh to holy fucking shit excited. I personally don't like TEW2, though I loved the first game, even with all of it's jank. It's hard to speculate on any of this without having seen a lick of gameplay. Every time scalebound got shown, I was like yikes, this looks uninspired in every way, and what do you know, it got shelved.
I hope the development isn't rocky at tango and she just wanted a change of pace.
She has been visiting places like Sony Santa Monica and Treyarch, maybe she wants that western $$$ haha.

TEW2 will be a discussion we'll have around these parts for decades to come I feel haha, I can understand why some don't enjoy it but man oh man was that game right up my alley.

But it's scary, isn't it? How one man's family name can make a game so interesting without as much as a word of gameplay. Regarding Scalebound, I never got it either honestly.

Almost a year and we’ve heard nothing, aside from the game losing its director. I sense a cancellation coming.

That would be a shame if so. I just want a new Mikami game at last.

I must be one of the few here who couldn't get on with either TEW1 or 2, and I'm slowly losing hope...

I doubt the game is cancelled, that would probably put a huge dent into the studio. I do feel a soft relaunch might happen, perhaps JJ will take over again as with TEW2. Though I'd love to I really doubt Mikami will be directing again, just doesn't seem his focus these days I feel.

> one of the few who didn't get on with either TEW1 or 2

Why was that, you tried both and didn't like either? Or both didn't appeal to you to purchase them? Note that Mikami's work on TEW2 was very minor, he was more an advisor for that title.

I don’t want it to be canceled but Scalebound was canned after some troubled develolment so I think it’s a possibility, unfortunately.

>didn’t get on with either TEW

You’re probably in the majority I would imagine. Most people aren’t fans of the games.

I bought both at launch but bounced off of them pretty hard, unfortunately.


I played through roughly two-thirds of the first TEW and gave up. My main issue is the shallow and unfulfilling basic combat interaction with the enemies: imprecise movement, imprecise shooting, imprecise windows of opportunity. Like a rickety version of the first Uncharted, without any interesting techniques or optimization layers. I remember a specific fight against two (?) giant enemies in a small graveyard that boiled down to pointlessly exchanging hits with them for ten minutes. Not to mention the numerous forced walking sections and a few classic survival horror mechanics that don't seem to make any sense in this one (like burning bodies). The impression I got was that the developers wanted to make a CINEMATIC HORROR game first and foremost and haphazardly cobbled together a set of poorly conceptualized gameplay mechanics at the last minute. Which is probably unfair to say but I found the contrast with every other Mikami game to be stark to say the least. The atrocious technical performance being the rotten cherry on the cake.

I couldn't even make it past the first few hours of TEW2. The controls and movement are a bit smoother and the introductory chapter has some interesting visuals, but as soon as I arrived at the semi-open world with all the "optional encounters" filled with bullet sponges I knew it wasn't for me.

I'm also not a fan of supernatural horror in general, as it usually amounts to little more than extravagant visuals with empty stakes and questionable tangibility. The classic Silent Hill games manage to do the best out of this sub-genre by way of completely committing to it in every aspect of their design, but they're a bit of an exception in that regard. Same reason I find RE7's "story" and its idiotic hallucinations to be so incredibly lame, btw.


TL;DR: TEW doesn't possess any of the qualities I like about either classic RE (pseudo-realistic exploration-centered tense action adventure with fantastic presentation) or RE4 (hyper-precise arcade combat and god-tier pacing). It feels like little more than an amateur superficial mix of both that completely fails at the most basic fundamentals to me.

Nobody's more disappointed about that than me. I wish I could see in them what Infinity_Divide does, honestly.

Maybe one day...

I don’t mean to come across as condescending or whatever, but I don’t think it’s fair to call the game’s combat shallow and unfulfilling when you only played 2/3 of the game one time. The combat is incredibly deep with IMO, the most well-designed weapons in any shooter. The enemies are on another level with tons of reactions to each weapon, environmental hazards, stuns, wielding different weapons, doing various attacks while knocked down(something I have yet to see from other games), having slightly randomized compositions at times, etc.

The match system does make sense, the burning and universal weakness to fire is tied to the story. The match system itself is brilliant, it’s a way to punish knockdowns that costs resources, encourages grouping, has a danger to the player since enemies can attack while grounded and while rising, has synergies with every weapon as well as traps, it gives corpses scattered through the areas serve a purpose, etc.

I’m not trying to shill my YT channel that no one watches, but I literally have talked about the game’s mechanics for hours in my videos. Aside from a few extreme examples, like MGS2-4, I couldn’t do that with probably any other game.

It’s a game that’s incredibly hard to get into just like NG2, for a lot of the same reasons(high “unfair” difficulty, some bad sections, technical issues, not matching expectations, etc), but like that game, when you get familiar with it there’s nothing else quite like it. Of course, selling people on a six year old game that still runs like crap is pretty much impossible, so...meh.

No, you're probably right. I'll fully defer to your expertise when it comes to all of these underlying systems, all I can say is that I wasn't able to notice any of them when playing it myself. I assume my longstanding RE preconceptions and muscle memory must have played a role in that as well. I've been meaning to revisit the game(s) numerous times since, but my initial impressions were so negative that I simply couldn't bring myself to do it so far.

I'll make sure to ask for your input and maybe watch some of your videos if I ever do, though!

One last thing, I have the 360 version of the first game. Is that one acceptable or is there a consensus console version of choice that would make for the best possible experience? PC is out of the question for me, unfortunately.

>long-standing RE misconceptions

I had the same issue at first too. The game was described so heavily as being an RE4-like(which it is) that I went in trying to play it exactly like RE4; I wanted to group melee enemies, knife them while they were down, etc, and none of it was there. It’s one thing I appreciate about these games, is that although they(REmake, RE4, TEW) all appear very similar, they all have a lot of their own identity when you really dig in.

>input

Please do, would love to help! Like I said, didn’t mean to come across a certain way, it’s just that reading mainstream forums where games are dismissed easily for years has gotten to me a little bit haha.

>console version

I could be wrong but I believe the 360 and PS3 versions are tied for the worst ones(I got the PS3 version at launch and it was pretty bad). I play on the PS4 version on a Pro with boost enabled and it works pretty well aside from a couple sections. If you don’t have a Pro it doesn’t make much of a difference I don’t think, unless you can find a copy for super cheap(it frequently goes on sale on the PSN store for $5).

Infinity_Divide wrote:
Like I said, didn’t mean to come across a certain way, it’s just that reading mainstream forums where games are dismissed easily for years has gotten to me a little bit haha.

No problem! Reading between the lines, I can recognize the same frustration I feel whenever I see people whine about NGB's camera without ever re-centering it, shit-talk MGS3's controls without even reading the in-game tutorials or RE4's tank controls when trying to play it like Gears of War. I totally get it, it can be maddening to have something you fully understand and care a lot about being mad-mouthed or undersold!

And yeah, I have a base-level PS4 and I seemed to recall the improvements only being noticeable on the Pro, so I didn't bother buying it a second time. I suppose my 360 copy will have to do for now.

Yep, those examples in particular drive me crazy. On one hand, I understand not everyone has the time or interest to invest in something as(now) unusual as MGS3, but at the same time, the amount of misinformation about how these games are “outdated” is just frustrating.

I don’t know if you’re a user from GFAQS, but if you know SBK, he also has some quick videos(I can only assume it’s the same SBK)on the game, mostly showing boss strats and things like that. There’s some tactics on his vids I never knew about, so that’s another good source of info if you ever get around to it!

@KSubzero1000
I wasn't aware of half the shit Infinity knows when I first played either though I loved my first playthrough. It was so tense I swear I didn't leave crouch walk for most of the game.

It wasn't until trying Akumu that I began to get annoyed and also found a lot of things imprecise, but once I saw some vids and read up/asked questions things improved. I almost smashed a control over that dog boss.

There are problems that seem to be exclusive to the PS3 version's performance, which is all I had at the time.

I got onto match use in my first playthrough. These guys chased me to a bale of hay and I saw the match prompt. Nuked a whole group with that. Accidentally noticed you can match enemies stuck in traps when I tried to run past them. Could have easily missed both but once I realised I started using bodies to catch others. It really opened up the match system.

I've started watching your run Infinity. What a fantastic source of info. Love the commentary.

>matches

Amazing system, I had completely forgot about them working with bear traps until a couple playthroughs ago. The matches have a huge importance when you start using them with certain weapons too.

>commentary

Thanks man, I really appreciate it. I’m not the best speaker but I tried to pour as much info in there as I could. I’m going to do an upgraded NG+ run where I’ll also have a ton to say since I’ll be using new weapons and upgrades completely shift the focus on their utility and overall use.

I've been thinking about why TEW has people so mystified, myself included. And what I'm about to say is about as tin-foil hat theory as you can get so bear with me:

It is an evolution of the mastery of Resident Evil. Resident Evil games were always fantastic, but they shined even more upon replays. You'd figure out better methods, routes, attack patterns, ammo conservation. But despite that, the first run is also tense, interesting and fun.

The Evil Within is a game made for series veterans, and is built around knowledge. It doesn't have a 'first run', but is instead tuned to be difficult and challenging for people that replay the game. This is why the first playthrough feels like such an absolute chore (at least to me), while subsequent runs are absolutely phenomanal. The first run is a giant tutorial where you learn the game's rules and bang your head against a wall learning what works and what doesn't. A giant 20+ hour headbanger. You'll save ammo where you shouldn't, waste it where you'd better save, go stealth where it is better to go ham etc. Only after that sloppy run does it really get fun. Spongey enemies die in a single hit to a player with knowledge how to beat them, but that knowledge needs to be gained first.

This would explain why people that got into TEW, REALLY FREAKN GOT INTO IT haha. Lots of RE-runners adore TEW as well. TEW2 plays it safer and is more akin to RE4 i.e. the way the knife works etc. I still prefer TEW2 for its movement mechanics and Chapter 3's initial fun.

That's my weird ass take on it haha.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to sit down and give the series another proper shot one of these days. It does bother me how little I get on with that game, after all. But man, those initial impressions were so rough it's a difficult mental hurdle to get over.

I suppose I should also mention just how... stuck in my ways I am when it comes to action games. After playing so many disappointing AAA games with shallow combat systems, I have become a bit cynical about these things by now. Difficult to find the motivation to give a new game too many new chances. I have limited time to play games and I often find it more rewarding to revisit an old classic than to waste dozens of hours on yet another shallow dud. I know what I like and that's usually good enough for me these days.

Definitely penciling in Infinity's explanations before I give the game another chance. Because if I just rely on the game itself I'm afraid I would just bounce off of it again.

One day!

Raeng, I think you completely hit the nail on the head, 100%. I’ve definitely viewed the game as the advancement of RE combat for a while now, and replaying RE, as amazing as that series is, those games just feel very easy to me now. The game certainly seems like a mess on a first playthrough, not even from a performance standpoint, but with the seemingly random OHKO and traps. But then you learn the dynamic ways to use traps and how to get around OHKOs on repeat plays and everything just falls into place. Am I correct in assuming it’s similar to NG2 in this way? They both share a lot of the same traits in my eyes.

Interesting to note, Mikami had the same lead designer, Nishikawa, on four of his five fan-favorite games(REmake, RE4, Vanquish, and TEW), but the last time he tried directing it didn’t sit well with a lot of people it seems(Madworld). Wonder if he’s involved with this game.

I need to make notes on all the shit I'm seeing in your vids that I didn't know was possible.

Awesome! I had actually considered going through the playthrough, and the next one I’m about to do, and compile a master list of notes. Just out of curiosity, what are some things you’re finding that you didn’t know about?

Well, that trailer is not what I was expecting. What did you all think?

Interesting, to say the least. I get a bit of a Dishonoured vibe, but that's just because first person+superpowers.

Some people are skeptical of the first-person view, but Mikami's tried things that you wouldn't think would work with certain camera angles, like RE4 and God Hand. Look at how those have turned out.

I'm skeptical. On the one hand, it's Mikami, and whatever he makes I will at least try out, especially since there's a solid chance this will be the last game he makes. On the flip-side, is he even directing?

The actual "action" they showed looked bad. I was all for a first person beat em up, sort of like the keeper DLC from TEW. I love Zeno Clash and it is a shame no one has done it as great before or since.
But they didn't show melee, they showed "spell casting"? with animations that looked about as good as skyrim..
Wait, Bethesda is publishing this..

Really unsure of this, but they also barely showed anything really. Anytime games go a year and show barely anything, I worry.
Every time I saw scalebound, I thought it belonged in a trash can, and that is exactly where it ended up.


Side note: Ikumi Nakamura has 307.7K twitter followers, 100k MORE than the director of the new GOW.
No one knew her name before that E3 shit. Crazy.

I often feel that Ikumi left Tango because the fame got to her and now she's a free agent technically doing nothing. That's just my hunch. It's Mikami, so the core gameplay will probably be solid. But I can't help that this might not be the game he wanted to make. We'll have to wait and see.

Yeah I’m not sure what to think. The little bit they showed looked alright but it’s hard to judge from a total of one minute of gameplay. It just looks so bizarre coming from this team and I don’t know if I’ve ever played a legitimately great Japanese first person game. Also it gives me VR vibes.

>I don’t know if I’ve ever played a legitimately great Japanese first person game

Has anyone played Breakdown? It always looked interesting

Gabriel always loved that game, though I don't know where he is now. He hasn't been on this forum in what feels like a decade. Other than that I can only think of Time Crisis and Resident Evil Survivor and Resident Evil 7. And Metroid Prime if that counts, since that was made in the 'states.

Sorry, but this looks awful to me. I'm not a huge fan of first person games as it is. Not touching this.

hedfone wrote:>I don’t know if I’ve ever played a legitimately great Japanese first person game

Has anyone played Breakdown? It always looked interesting

Breakdown is an incredibly cool game. Much recommended.

Ghostwire looks like it suffers from damaging publisher interference of forcing action sections into the game (e.g. Shadows of the Damned, Deadly Premonition).

I would say Shadows of the Damned and Deadly Premonition are examples of two games that felt like they had very little publisher interference.
I also kind of like the action in DP. The unlimited ammo weak guns, and the limited durability powerful melee items are cool ideas, it is just such an overall mess.

Despite everything wrong with DP, I consider it one of the best games I've ever played. It really was an experience like no other. I felt like shit when I finished it like a part of my life had come to a close.

Dammit!!!! The game concept is totally awesome but why first-person why?! Sigh...

It's finally revealed that Mikami will not be directing this title, he's probably an advisor or something similar. Kenji Kimura is the director. Never heard of him before though.

Edit:

Found his profile: https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,266621/

He did level design for Peace Walker and otherwise was a character illustrator and designer on some Tekken and Soul Calibur games. Mostly an art guy from the looks of it with some art-director history, which is interesting. Think he could give a good unique insight. Guy's been around for ages too, earliest credit is doing graphic design for a game in 1991, and he's touched some big names including Metal Gear Solid 4.

I really like Peace Walker, and hopefully he was somewhat mechanically knowledgeable, having worked on that much Tekken..
Maybe there is hope... or maybe it will be really stylish and shallow gameplay.

Anyone watch the showcase yesterday? I’m not really…thrilled about it, it has potential but some things aren’t sitting right with me. They didn’t show a good stretch of gameplay and only showed bits of combat without explaining much.

I’ll probably get it day one because of who is involved but part of me is just like, “oh, is that it?”.

I liked the artstyle and setting/atmosphere, but I feel pretty much the same. It looks like it has some potential, but they didn't show enough actual gameplay and that really worries me. Deathloop received more gameplay footage before release.

Speaking of Deathloop - Though I only played both Prey and Dishonored only once (I intend to replay them and play the DLCs as well), I really loved them for their level designs and the room they allow for experimentation. High level Dishonored play looks amazing. Does Deathloop compare favorably?

I'm still a tad curious since it looks unlike anything I've played in certain respects and has that nice level of freshness to it I've come to expect from Tango. I just hope it sticks and has plenty to play ball with.

Will you guys be getting it?

> Deathloop
From what I know (haven't played it) it's actually a pretty shallow game compared to the studio's previous works.