Kingdom Hearts 3

Continued from the JRPG topic.

Had an extensive info dump from SBK, I'm sure he won't mind me sharing it here since it is mostly data. I removed the few points that had spoilers in them for those that want to avoid that kind of stuff. As always, it is a great read. Guy knows his stuff:


-Gameplay kind of feels like an inverted nu GoW. The fundamentals (basic attacking, moving, etc) are ok, but there's no internal logic/consistency in terms of moveset functions and how to different mechanics come together, if that makes sense.


-They messed with basic combo structure. Before the default combo string was 2 normal hits then 1 finisher, the finisher that would come out was contextual (for example if there were multiple enemies around you you'd do the AoE finisher automatically before the single target finisher), and you added more finishers to the string with the ability Finishing Plus. Finishing Plus doesn't exist in KH3, instead if you have special finishers equipped they'll just be added to the end of the string, and will always rotate through finishers in the exact same order (most apparent with the callback transformation using the same three finishers in the same order every string). Conversely, this screws magic, since you're limited to one magic finisher per string. The default string also starts with 3 normal hits


-Physical attacks are super imprecise, Sora will just randomly veer off to attack an enemy in a different direction, you whiff a lot, and there's a lot of awkward pauses in combos to try and make them feel more epic.


-Situation Commands, the big new system, are cancer. They're triangle prompts that appear to do big fancy attack X. What procs them makes zero sense, had Limit Breaks come up just walking into combat without attacking anything and the super Water spell appear while spamming Fire. It makes combat not only random, but far less deliberate (praying to RNGesus for good options to appear) and a nightmare for damage testing (which no one has done yet so there's very little understanding of the relative power of things). As the cherry on top, they cost zero resources to use either.


-To use keyblade transformations you have to land physical combos. Problem is the basic physical string is pretty crappy, so you end up in a situation like Pandora's Disaster gauge where you have to use bad attacks to access a reward that isn't really worth it over spamming other more effective options in the first place (more on that in a second).


-The few transformations I have so far seem decently executed, but have super tiny movesets (like MGR Unique weapon tier). Shield has a super babyfied version of RG (one of the few truly powerful attacks in the game). Was surprised the hammer and drill forms weren't trash, hammer is actually quite quick while having great reach while the drill seems to deal good damage at the cost of being finicky (reasonable).


-The keyblades with 2 transformations got crapped on. Not only do you have to use the first transformation to get to the second (having to build up the transform prompt again via physical attacks and no choice to switch the order transformations appear in), the first transformation doesn't get a 'Limit' and they halved the time you can stay transformed compared to the 1 transformation keyblades (which often have better forms *Ultima is a single transformation*).
-Magic is really boring. For regular Sora, Fire and Blizzard are just homing projectiles that explode with a crappy status on Blizzard, Water is the same thing except it conjures a hitbox around you before firing off (think Fire Storm from Megaman 1), Thunder and Aero are AoE overheads.


-They dropped the ball HARD on how transformations affect magic. Many don't change magic whatsoever. Of those that do (that I have), they turn all spells into the same thing of a different element (Serious Series: Serious Palette Swapping), and sometimes give Thunder/Aero their AoE effect on hit. Keep in mind it doesn't adjust the MP costs of the spells, even though all spells likely deal the same base damage. IE using any spell with the pistol transformation will just fire off two homing projectiles. No extra hitbox on water, no AoE for Thunder, nuthin. Hammer just creates two swirls around you, bazooka and drill fire a single elemental ball, etc.


-The meta for bosses so far is 'spam Fire', as it's the cheapest spell and boss counters are so f****** s*** that when they break out of hitstun they just get caught again immediately. This is the 'superboss' (massive spoilers if you click obviously): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGr6B-Prh5s&t=43s


-They locked tons of important crap behind minigames and other such garbage (the reason the guy could spam magic so long is because of an accessory hidden behind taking pictures). Action fans rejoice.


-In general stat crap seems way more important than in KH2. Equipment boosts stats more than it used to, you have to upgrade keyblades, food boosts stats, you have to grind in Lv 1 to prevent completely falling off, etc.
-Most bosses are huge environmental types and either piss easy or massive clusterf***s (the non-Earth Titan fights are really bad). Huge hitboxes and lots of preventing you from getting close/harming them in annoying ways. Mob fights are almost as chaotic, you never feel in control (in a bad way).


-Shotlocks (the Limit replacement) are awful. They're dumbed down in terms of function and utility, and most are just bad (won't hit everything onscreen).


-They snuck in the aimed teleporting from Versus XIII (Nomura's still implementing ideas from it *driving mechas in combat being the other obvious one*).


-They lack of ways to restore MP via stuff like Drive Forms and Summons is a real pisser (forced to chug items).


-The justification for multiple keyblades having the same transformations is having different sets of pre-packaged passive abilities (what the game refers to as Drives). Only 1-2 of them really matter (defensive 'Drive' gets the 'can't die from a hit if I had more than 1 HP beforehand' abilities at any level).


-They shoed-in a smartphone as the game's log and the load screens are made up social media posts (thank God they don't reference a real world company).


-Ultima Weapon has two of the most important passive damage boosting abilities from KH2 (really shilling it).


-The ending boss gauntlets are multi-boss fights against dumbed down versions of KH2 bosses (probably setting the stage to recycle them as super versions in DLC).


-Overall they did better than I thought they would with the fundamentals and the transformations' regular attacks, but I'm mostly annoyed and bored. Playing it at Lv 1, understanding the full moveset better and skipping cutscenes will probably help a bit, but I just want to move onto better games (like LR).

Yeah he's spot as usual with the gameplay stuff, overall I felt. more or less the same though in a way less detailed manner.

>but there's no internal logic/consistency in terms of moveset functions and how to different mechanics come together, if that makes sense.
It feels like every KH would add on new mechanics for better or worse and at least most of the time for all the games I played they at least would make the game revolve around said mechanics giving it some kind of consistency, but KH3 is different it tries to blend up all the gimmicks from previous titles while adding on new ones and instead of having a combat that flows well you're just going around with countless options that don't really flow together and you just spam them whenever you can.

>-The ending boss gauntlets are multi-boss fights against dumbed down versions of KH2 bosses
Which ironically are considered the best bosses in the game because that's how low the bar is lol. The last boss also feels like a lesser version of the 3rd form of Xemnas in KH2(yeah the KH3 boss is only comparable to 1/3 of the last boss in KH2). Extra boss speaks for itself with that video.

>I'm mostly annoyed and bored. Playing it at Lv 1, understanding the full moveset better and skipping cutscenes will probably help a bit, but I just want to move onto better games
I feel the same, the game isn't even like bad as many people make it out to be but time is limited and KH3 doesn't feel worth putting time in and I doubt dlcs or KH3FM will be able to even scrape the surface of fixing all the issues in the game.
The game probably will feel better to repaly if you're a speedrunner since it has lots of options to min/max your run time and it's easy enough to steamroll stuff in the game, the only real downside I can see for them is the cancerous situation commands being tied to rng.

Wait critical was a recent update? Anyone tried it yet?

Heard it got released pretty recently yeah. Haven't played the game so cannot comment.

I'm hearing it's pretty hard. I wonder what SBK and 5does have to say?

He doesn't seem too pleased with it, SBK that is:

They copypasted FM2's damage floor (which is based on Battle Level) then gave low Battle Level foes significantly more health than KH2 endgame/superbosses while nerfing our core options to shill their stupid Situation Commands.

KH3 critical clearly wants you to utilize the RPG elements (synthesis, cooking, etc...) of the game.

IE dumb busywork. God forbid the focus is on interesting ability setups like in FM2.

Source: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/718920-kingdom-hearts-iii/77677189/921192198

SBK sent me a private message about it, I'm sure he won't mind me posting it:

"Up to Corona, pretty much everything Osaka said about it was bulls***, almost entirely numbers changes and the extra abilities at the start make no difference (getting the counter attacks early and some negligible passives the likes RPGturds would think are useful). Halved our HP and MP (instead of HP/MP extensions like KH2 so that the beginning wasn't so rough and our MP wasn't gimped), increased the MP charge by 20 f****** seconds, Situation Commands build slower (so we have far less access to transformations), and halved the health regained from Links (whatever). No universal damage increase for us, so it's the same chip damage as Proud. Lot of people are imagining AI changes others point out were already in the base game but didn't notice due to difficulty (placebo effect).

The effect is the opposite of KH2's Crit (showcasing the bad parts of 3 instead of elevating it). The camera is awful, lock-on is constantly breaking (why does transforming into Arrowguns break it but the shields don't), melee is terribad (super high commitment for low damage), you're constantly OHKOed by offscreen s*** (often from very far away), defenses are bad (none of the base counter attacks match up to Counterguard, no higher level dodge rolls, nothing to consistently cancel into i frames mid combo on demand *Reflect is sorely missed*, Quick Run > Air Slide), the aimed teleport barely works, there's tons of s***boxes (streams of projectiles ping ponging you to death, shockwave attacks connecting twice and killing you), almost every boss has major issues (the doll boss has mobs which spawn as you go into different parts of the room, the tell on her spin in place is bad, will randomly attack twice in a row, her 'stinger' will murder you from offscreen, etc).

As predicted, the halved MP (which everyone told them was a bad idea in 0.2) gimps spells while encouraging Links and Shlocklocks, and in combination with gimped SC's means you're waiting longer to be able to deal decent damage while reducing combat variety and being more reliant on the base melee string. Heavily encourages hit and run, Toy Story boss was a couple minutes of potshots to take down its first 4 of 7 health bars before it'd use its Desperation Move (only part of the fight it stays in place, otherwise it slowly floats around which screws up lots of offenses) so I could summon Ralph and one punch it. On top of all this Bizkit made a video a few days before Crit was released whining that everything strong but Ultima was OP, so we can expect more fun nerfs in the future.

DLC is described as two 'episodes' each ending with a boss. DLC superboss is said to 'make you cry' (sure to be a MF level disaster). Adding a new keyblade and Form for free. Wonder if they'll give it unique magic as an atonement for the palette swap issues, but the most likely outcome is a single transformation keyblade with unaltered magic."

As for me I haven't touched it yet(more interested on different games right now), I'd be more interested in trying it out if the difficulty gave us damage modifiers or more viable options in combat instead of butchering meter related skills just to shill the cooldown related bs even harder than they did on original settings. As it stands right now it's just hard for the wrong reasons(think MF fight in BBS), respect for SBK for delving in the mud for the sake of science.

Confirmed never touch.

Anything new with this game? It's been a few months.

It got a massive temporary price drop here ($109 down to just $40) so I grabbed it on a recent trade in and ended up paying less that 20 thanks to my remaining store credit.

Doubt I'll touch it for a while though. Still have to play the first two which I have on PS4 too. Just couldn't pass up that low price.

Kayaam is a pretty big fan of it iirc currently, especially after his KH1 run. Other than that, cannot comment.

I'll probably pick up the "Story so Far" collection for PS4 at some point and give the series a try. From an action perspective, which games are recommended?

I'm playing KH1 on proud mode and it's very good. I heard KH2 is even better but other titles, not so much.

KH2FM is considered one of the best action-games ever made by a lot of players I know, so definitely that one I'd say.

>Anything new with this game?
They confirmed dlc stuff but that's about it. I think most dedicated players are done with Crit L1 runs for now and there isn't much more to discover as far as strats go.

>which games are recommended?
KH1FM, KH2FM, no reason to touch the vanilla entries. 3 is a step down on every regard from 2 but still a solid game.

Kingdom hearts 3D and Birth by Sleep are lesser entries but still there if you're interested.

Chain of Memories is... different but it's pretty okay if the gameplay looks interesting for you.

Every other title is just optional, no need to play any of the games for the plot because it is so convoluted and even a fucking mobile game is considered canon.

Basically:
1 and 2fm are must plays.
3 isn't as good but still worth it.
3d and BBS are ehhh but the gameplay is the closest you'll get to the mainline entries.
Chain of Memories is okay if the gameplay sounds interesting to you.
Every other title is optional.

Thanks for the breakdown, I'll probably get the collection then. I've heard the plot is ridiculous so I doubt I'll pay too much attention to it.

I've just had a look at the full list of games included in the Story so Far set, and the titles of them are absolutely hilarious. Just out of curiosity - what is the correct way to pronounce "Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days"?

Apparently, it's "Three Five Eight Days over Two"

Fuck that. I'm calling it "Three Fifty-Eight over Two Days"

Or 179 days.

So I've been playing KH3 for a bit now, having ditched KH2 (sorry). I was told by numerous people on twitter that if I enjoyed KH1 so much, I might enjoy KH3 more, so I gave it a whirl and got hooked pretty fast. The higher emphasis on RPG-mechanics and tons of toys to tinker around with really helped me and I'm currently on my second-playthrough (crit) taking my time with it. I think this game might even overtake KH1 for me, not sure.

I've had a discussion about it recently on that, everything that I like in KH3 is done better in KH2, but I feel that KH2 really takes too long to get going. Sora's movement in the endgame of KH2 looks fantastic, but KH3 starts off with something nearly the same (flowmotion).

I tend to hear a lot of people talk about fantastic bosses in KH2 with great mechanics, but usually they mention the Datas, Roxas, Lingering Will and Sephiroth - I never hear someone talk about how fun Cerberus, Shan Yu, Pete or Demyx are; because frankly they suck haha. I know I'm coming off a bit harsh, but I really don't see the joy in that game after 20+ hours that KH3 offers as early as the first 5 minutes with its flowmotion, second-form, Critical Converter and other funky toys. Fact that the game even offers a combo-meter damagebonus to allow for near OHKO amounts of damage is just delicious. Game even has royal-release in a sense, with the CounterShield - all available in about 10-60 minutes of playtime depending on speed/skill.

Also the minor things seem restored, like arenas with mooks being more interesting (hills, falls, elevated terrain) and elemental weaknesses being a thing again. Also like the spells a lot more and how they change depending on Form, firing a giant Blizzaza with the Rocketlauncher is delightful fun.

I'll definitely go back to KH2 in a while, but I'm honestly shocked at how good KH3 is. I heard it was a lot worse on release, perhaps that's why it wasn't received so well? I admit my first run (Proud) was more "spam shiny abilities" but my Crit run so far has me using my entire toolbox and loving every second of it. It's more of an RPG which I'm honestly pretty happy about. Maybe KH2 was too action'y for me (weird haha, since I love action). Dunno, can't really put it into words.

(note, it's all in good spirits ofc, so please don't be mad that I like KH3 more than KH2, I hope to love KH2 one day)

^I ain't got nothing to do with KH. If you want me in KH, just speak with SBK.

>having ditched KH2 (sorry).
You're going to get us killed!

I've tried getting into KH2 a few times. Get a little further each time then drop it.
Maybe I'll give KH3 a go.

Yeah the site is very silent now, I think everyone left in a hurry after those words hit the page hahah.

> KH3
I think you'll like it!

I haven't played KH3, and what I'd say about it is pretty much the data that SBK sent to you in the opening post of this thread. Still, I'm curious about your take on it when you're done. SBK isn't the only one who played both games and preferred 2, so your input will be a fresh one to be sure.

Also, if you do end up liking it, then you may be interested in KH4 as well (even if it's not coming anytime soon). At the moment, I have little (but not zero) interest in trying 3 and 4, let alone the non-mainline entries I haven't played yet (BBS, 0.2).

Slowly, after talking to players a bit more about it, I'm finding that those that prefer the RPG part prefer KH1 and 3. In those entries, the creativity comes in matching gear and strats around it for a battleplan, instead of 'when do I drive/launch etc.'. It's much more about the preparation, which is why it also has a "prepare&retry" option when you die.

> Sbk isn't the only one
True, but there's also a lot that prefer KH3 over 2 from what I'm seeing, so it's not that clearcut. Might be a NGB >< NGII situation from what I'm seeing.

> haven't played KH3
With respect: how do you know you won't love it?

>how do I know I won't love it
A couple of reasons, one of them being that I really didn't like the handhelds, and I heard (and saw) that the game still has some layers from said handhelds.

Still, I meant what I said earlier. I am curious about your input in 3, so hearing some positivity from a trustworthy person might elevate my desire to try the game. Kind of like GoW: Ascension in a way (not implying that both of these games are similar in quality, the point is entirely about someone whom I trust giving me enough reasons to try said games).

KH2 might take me a few tries over time to get into. Had the same issue with the GoW games. Would start, not feel it and lose motivation. Repeated this process 3 times with GoW.

So far I can verbalize quite a few elements that I like about KH3:
- it's very satsifying to tinker with the RPG-elements. It allows you to make builds without any of the usual 'dedication' RPGs ask of you in terms of stats. You just swap gear > new build. Yesterday I tried a Cure Converter setup and it was fun to just try new playstyles on the fly and see how they function.
- everything has a place and is good to use, or to not use. I haven't found a tool that isn't a "hmm, let me try that", sometimes it's also very useful to disable abilities for better function. Disabling Attractions for another benefit is a great ability for example.
- flowmotion is fantastic, allows for rapid movement, AoE-control and hopping from enemy to enemy. Using enemies as poles for an AoE slash is just delightful.
- enemy elemental weaknesses are fun to figure out and abuse
- You can then also really build around it. For example Corrupt Pile(?) is the boss of the Monster Inc level, and he's weak to ice. So I went in with numerous Blizzard Plus abilities from gear and a few items that gave me the 'high chance to get Blizzaza upon situationgaugefill'. I filled up the meter, switched to the rocket-launcher keyblade and used its rocket-magic to absolutely decimate his HP bar with 3 rocket Blizzazas. Is it executional skill? Far from it, but it is super satisfying to see a well laid out plan come to fruition.
- I like the slight randomness of the 'limits', you cant fully control when they appear (like Donald healing you) so fights feel a bit more rng and 'on the fly'.
- there's definite advantages to being 'out of mana' which is a really fun twist I haven't seen before.
- Aero is a fantastic spell that plays with flowmotion as it automatically triggers flow-superjump, which has all sorts of followups.
- I love how every keyblade has its uses and applications. Sure there's a few standouts like Ever After and Crystal Snow which dominate the early game, but every blade, even the regular Kingdomblade, have uses until the end-game and it's very enjoyable to constantly swap between them and try out new setups/builds.
- I like how quickly it gets fun, the second you get Flowmotion the game basically is on display, and it only takes about 20 minutes for you to get nearly all the abilites you'll use throughout the game (the baseline that is).
- I really enjoy how the worlds are laid out and how each one has advantages over the other. Arriendelle for example is 'higher level' than Monster Inc, but Arriendelle gives you Blizzaga and the Crystal Snow weapon, and all Monster Inc enemies are weak to Ice, so there's an advantage to doing Arriendelle first. But Monster Inc gives you the Simba summon, which is Fire, and Arriendelle is weak to fire. Very open ended.
- I like how mini-games have very good rewards, might be a tad annoying on replays if you want them again, but it's great to see minigames reward more than just a Trophy.
- adore the attention to detail. Fact that the team made an entire new level just for you revisiting Olympus after the tutorial (where it's under siege) to see it being rebuilt while having new encounters, a sidequest and new collectibles is just...unheard of. Never seen such love and passion in a game.
- camera is pretty fun to derp with

>Disabling Attractions for another benefit is a great ability for example.
Oh? I thought everyone (vets and newcomers alike) agreed that turning off these was the most sensible choice to make.

>I like how mini-games have very good rewards, might be a tad annoying on replays if you want them again, but it's great to see minigames reward more than just a Trophy.
Isn't there a NG+?

Have you fought against the Datas?

> turning off attractions
Depends on what you want. It's a great way to minimalize risk in certain weird engagements. Same with activating the 'start with team attack' ability on allies for 50AP. It's all in the name of customization, it is an RPG afterall.

> NG+
Only carries over your weapons IIRC and some abilities.

> datas
Not yet!

Should note that the algorythm seems to have caught on that I like KH3, so I'm only getting solid KH3 content in my youtube-feed/twitter etc. Lots of fun strats.

What are attractions?

What's the difference between on and off?

Attractions are random very powerful supermoves that can appear during fights. If you turn them off, you get some extra abilities. They're fun to use from time to time but they can quickly turn the combat off if you let them.

>randomly appear during fights
What do you mean?
Like some kind of QTE?

Or commands that produce a random super every time?

>turn them off for extra abilities
So each one has its own set of abilities if you turn off?

>turn off the combat if you let them
How often are they accessible?

> random
You have a 'deck' of powerful attacks that you can trigger through certain conditions. Some enemies during fights will have an aura around them for a few seconds, hit them during that time and an Attraction is added to your deck and you can use it to do a 'super move'.

> turn them off
Nawh, it's just turning off attractions as a concept as a whole for some boosts.

> how often
I'd say once per fight, sometimes less. And it's up to you to use them or get them (since you have to hit the enemy that gives it too you).