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CRPGs

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1CRPGs Empty CRPGs on Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:49 am

Birdman


Moderator
I'm really wanting to get into these. Recently a few got PS4 releases. I saw Baldur's Gate 1&2 pack, Planescape Torment+Icewind Dale pack, and Pillars of Eternity 2. Been watching vids and looks like they offer absurd customization though they're very complicated and unforgiving.

I already have Divinity: Original Sin 2.

Anyone play games like this? I'm wondering if there's anything wrong with the console compared to the PC versions. Can't find anything super negative. Some comments said movement is better on the stick but there's some clunky stuff like selecting certain options or trying to pick stuff up in small spaces.

2CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:01 am

Birdman


Moderator
Ok.

I'll probably avoid Baldur's Gate. Everything about it sounded awesome until I read about the dice roll thing.

Pillars has horrendous load times on console.

3CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:05 pm

NiceNinja


D-Rank
Are you looking particularly games for PS4? Because the GOG has most of the classics. For PS4 there is the Underworld Ascendant. Which is a spiritual successor for the fantastic Ultima Underworld games. Sadly it is a technical mess right now and littered with weird physics based puzzles stolen from Half-Life 2. Perhaps Wasteland 2 is something decent. Unfortunately I haven't played it myself.

4CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:25 pm

Birdman


Moderator
>only on PS4
I guess, but I'll look into any only on PC too.
The PS4 ones seem to be full of issues and are sold here at AAA prices. Not paying that just to see. Maybe if they ever go down in price I'll grab POE2.

POE1 is pretty cheap on PS4 these days. Might grab that.

5CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:06 am

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank
All proper CRPGs are dice rolls, as they are essentially DnD Pen and Paper but with graphics.
I love the dice rolls, makes things risky and makes me want to lvl up and find better stuff so the dice rolls swing my way more. I really love Fallout 1 & 2 as far as CRPGs go.

6CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:01 am

Birdman


Moderator
How bad does it get though? I don't really know how it works. Sounds like stuff can just miss.

7CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:13 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Does Dragon Age count? Had the most fun with that one due to how open character builds were. Most fun I had was doing a literal 'dice' run in that game. I put the game on Nightmare and let a literal dice decide my conversation and level-up choices. It was....interesting.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

8CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:19 am

Birdman


Moderator
The build potential in these games is pure insanity.

9CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:41 am

Birdman


Moderator
Tried reading up on how the DnD mechanics work. Can barely understand it.

Pillars of Eternity 2 is half price now and it looks amazing to watch but I really need to understand how this dice shit works.

10CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:52 am

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank
It really is more about understanding class structure. You need a tank or two, ranged characters, healers etc. You also need to move them to appropriate places in the battle, a mage should be away from the fray since they are weaker. The dices in these games just happen behind the scenes mostly.
Though older CRPGs like baldur's gate's weapons actually have dice terms in the weapon's descriptions I believe.

It might say, for damage, this hammer rolls a "1D6", meaning 1, 6 sided dice, or 2D8 meaning you roll 2, 8 sided dice.
There is always a hit die rolled first. If that die roll is equal or more than the enemies defense die they roll, you hit, and if it is high enough usually a crit. After the hit is "confirmed", you then roll the damage die. The weapon description will tell you what dice you use for damage and hit. Again all of this would be mostly behind the scenes in games, this is just how physical DnD works.

I would definitely say start with Dragon Age Origins, it is very streamlined but still has all of the build goodness of the old school CRPGs. That game uses modern language and all of the dice stuff is mostly hidden. Origins is the only one that is a CRPG though.
The beauty of CRPGs is definitely the character builds, so much variety and options. Just google Dragon Age Origins Mage skills and have a look. You could make a elemental mage, summoner, healer, battle mage that uses melee too, or a mix of all of it. So many options for just the mage.

I absolutely love DA:O, one of the best. It never got a re-release though so if you don't have a ok pc then you have to go PS3/360, I played it through on that console on the hardest difficulty so it is perfectly fine. It plays much better with a mouse though.

11CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:19 am

Birdman


Moderator
So it's no more than the chance to miss in FF?

12CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:50 am

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank
In proper pen and paper DnD it is chance to do anything really. Heal, talk, attack, defend.
In CRPGs it is maybe at most chance to hit, defend and heal amount.

13CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:11 pm

Birdman


Moderator
But how bad is it in the games? It doesn't sound good to me. Can it be influenced at all?

14CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:36 pm

hedfone

hedfone
A-Rank
Yeah you get better weapons, armor, and spells to make the dice roll better. It is a good incentive to lvl and gear up. Your best bet is start with Dragon Age origins since there is very little dice to worry about. You could get it on ps3 for nothing I bet. It was my first CRPG, it is great for easing you in. It is really fun on it's hardest mode too. Also CRPGs have a lot in common with JP tactics RPGs so if you like the team management and positioning from them, you will feel at home.

15CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:51 pm

Birdman


Moderator
I watched some Baldur's Gate videos and can see the rolls in the log. Doesn't seem to be as awful as I thought. Still don't want to get it on PS4 due to those load times.

I saw Dragon Age Origins in a bargain bin for $8 yesterday. Didn't get it because I've been trying to avoid buying games unless I'm absolutely sure they'll offer me tons of replay value. Watched some videos and yeah looks like insane build potential. I main looked at archer stuff since that's all that interests me other than ranged magic. Will look more into this. Really need to save for a PC.

16CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:42 am

Birdman


Moderator
Ok. Watched a ton of Baldur's Gate, Pillars of Eternity, Neverwinter Nights videos and some others and will grab them on sale. Not paying $90 each. I imagine they'll go on sale around Christmas. What I will grab immediately is DA Origins.

17CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:49 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
I've played DnD for quite a while and it's pretty interesting, its mechanics are used pretty actively in CRPGs as a result. There is a big chance element to them, as a result stats have a huge influence as well as certain decision making.

For example. In more dull games you have a weapon that does 272 damage, and then you get a weapon that deals 282 damage. The second one is obviously better. In DnD-esque games it is different. You have a sword that does 1d10 damage, and then get a sword that does 2d4. This is a lot harder to choose between since D10 means you can deal between 1-10 damage per hit, while 2d4 means between 2-8 damage, with some values having a much higher chance of happening due to rolling two dice.

Then you have gear that influences your stats. To hit an enemy you need to roll a D20 and the result is then checked with their armour. So say an enemy has 5 armour, you only need to roll a 5 or up. But the further the game goes on, enemies get stronger. So you need to work on getting +Hit, so for instance if you attack an enemy you roll a D20+6, meaning your range is 7-26 on the roll. So against a 5 armour foe, you don't even need to roll anymore, it auto-hits.

This also expands to rollplaying. Say you're wanting to convince an NPC that you can have his cat (lol). You'll have to make a roll. But this roll can then be influenced by what you say, giving positive or negative modifiers etc. It's a fantastic system.

> Dragon Age
Really recommend this game, one of my all time favourites. Will say that it is FAR better on PC due to the ability to mod a few things out and easier menus. The biggest advantage is that you can reset characters stats with a mod. Your mage-ally already has some talents at the start which you cannot remove normally for example, which sucks.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

18CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:12 am

Birdman


Moderator
I'm just wondering how all of this would affect builds in Baldur's Gate. Is my shit even going to work because I don't get good rolls? I feel like I have little control.

19CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:05 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
It is technically possible to roll a 1 on your to-hit a billion times in a row and not hit a thing, but that would require an astronomical amount of bad luck. As long as you level up, get the appropriate stats, you should be fine. As noted, stats influence a huge bunch.

If you do 1d4+2000 damage, you'll still do at least 2000 damage etc (exaggerated example).

https://stinger.actieforum.com

20CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:02 pm

Birdman


Moderator
I watched quite a few battle videos and in the end it seems not that much different from any other RPG in terms of hitting. I should be able to deal with this.

21CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:32 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Very likely. Nearly every RPG uses DND and its mechanics as a base.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

22CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:14 am

Birdman


Moderator
Just downloaded the Baldur's Gate expansion. Thought it was the first one. I can't find it anywhere. It's not on Steam either.

My shitty laptop could run it. Entered a building and loading was instant. Some guy tried to kill me and I'd only moved a few meters from where I started.

23CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:11 am

Birdman


Moderator
Got enhanced edition running on my shitty laptop no problem. Somehow my little brother was able to give it to me for free over Steam.

But looks like I'll need to watch a few YouTube tutorials just to get through character creation.

24CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:03 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Yeah Character Creation is always quite the adventure, especially in games as complex as these. Have fun!

https://stinger.actieforum.com

25CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:23 am

Birdman


Moderator
These aren't for me. Just can't do it. Near everything irritated me.

I like Divinty Original Sin 2 though. Way easier to figure out and play with tons of variety. Will still try Pillars of Eternity.

26CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:51 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Didn't you also pick up Dragon Age? That game really is fantastic. Great balance between accesibility and depth. Also love how each race you pick has a unique origin story (hence the name Origins).

https://stinger.actieforum.com

27CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:28 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Yeah got it for $8 on PS3. Might give it a try over the weekend.

28CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:05 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Considering your affinity for Archers, I always loved the Wood Elf origin as a Ranger. Might be worth checking out for you :)

https://stinger.actieforum.com

29CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:39 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Just reading through the manual. I saw you can summon a poisonous spider. Poison+summons is like my dream combo.

We just got put on a 3 day lockdown so might look into this sooner. Just busy with Death end re;Quest.

30CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:40 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
That's for mages yeah. You can also become more poison based if you're an archer. Note that you always control the entire party, so don't focus too much on how your player created character plays. In the end you'll controle them all anyway.

https://stinger.actieforum.com

31CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:59 pm

TaiTsurugi

TaiTsurugi
D-Rank
I love the genre and I played a fair bit of them so here are some pointers, if you ever need more info on specific stuff just ask either here or just add me on Discord if you prefer (TaiTsurugi#1591):

First of all, if you have the possibility, never play CRPGS on console. They were always designed around the pc, and the console just makes everything more clunky. The UI and the inventory management is hell without hotkeys and a mouse and Real Time with pause (RTwP) games are borderline impossible to play, as you need to continiously micromanage you party.

Regarding subgenres, most CRPGS can be classified in Turn-Based and RTwP. Turn-Based are usually more clean to both play and understand, as you don't need to pause and micromanage everything. One big advantage of RTwP tho is that fights are way faster, Turn-Based ones can really drag on when you have a lot enemies in an encounter, especially the easier one, in RTwP you can just go auto for the easier fights.

>Dices and numbers

Rules and system vary greatly between games, but one big distinction is between old (or old school) titles and the more modern ones.
Old stuff was generally based directly on either DnD or other PnP RPGs while modern ones have rules made specifically for them (and in most cases they are not really well thought out *cough Pillars of Eternity *cough). Modern ones are generally easier to understand, but old one have more depth and are more complex, and give you more freedom in some aspects.
If you want to go into old ones you will need to read and study a bit more to understand their system, but it's way easier that what it seems and considering most are based on DnD once you undestand one, everything will translate to the others.
Most formulas are just Roll+Modifiers so they are not hard, the thing to learn is just how to maximize the different modifiers and how to increase them

Dice rolls are not really a problem outside of the early game. At the start (less in the modern ones) you will miss a lot and some fights can be decided by a good or a bad roll, but once you get some gear and some level everything will even out and will not be any worse that any other "normal" RPG.

>Baldur's Gate 2

One of my favourite game of all times, you will need to study the systems a bit, but it's well worth it.
The game is RTwP, with a great system based on Advanced Dungeon and Dragons. The itemizations is top notch, with a lot of unique and strong items with interesting effects like, giving you more attacks, freezing on contacts, letting use specific magic etc. Enemy and Boss design is also top notch, with different enemies needing different tactics, a lot of them have specific weakness or have unique charateristic. Troll for example can only killed by using either fire or acid and stuff like Illithis drains you intelligence and can mind control. The game is also non linear in some parts, you can explore different areas and find a lot of cool items or bossfights if you know where to go and how to fight them. The party members are also great, and will also somewhat react to your choices and have specific banters based on the composition. Some party members also hate each other and will end up either leaving the party or even (try) to kill each other if they are in the same party.

>Dragon Age Origins

Is a good starting point as it has an easier system and is less punishing than something like BG2 but it has also some problems. It only has 3 classes and 3 races so not a lot of choice and not that much depth in the level up system (in general is way too linear and doesn't offer much choice). Enemies are also kinda of a problem, they are all kinda samey so fight can become a bit boring especially in the late game. That said is still a great game and it has a good RTwP combat system that is pretty much Baldur's Gate 2-lite, also it has a good bit of Choices and Consequences and different ways to complete quests. It also offers a lot of Roleplaing opportunities, starting from character creation with the origin system, that not only changes the prologue but also some different events. If you choose a Mage for example, later in the game when you will go to the mage tower later in the game, you will have different dialogue options that reflect your background. Same thing if you start as a Dwarf etc.

I will avoid Pillars of Eternity, is an all around mediocre game with a terrible stat system, a really bad story and some terrible enemy design. Pacing, exploration and itemization is also subpar. Just start with Dragon Age and then go into something like BG, Icewind Dale, Planescape Torment (if you want an amazing story), Pathfinder: Kingmaker (one of the best modern ones) or stuff like Divinity Original Sin if you prefer turn based.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFWlmU4vDpbsx6v7TMfgtyQ?

32CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:12 pm

Birdman


Moderator
I have Divinity OG2 and love it. It's turn based and I have no issue on console. It controls pretty much the same as something like Valkyria Chronicles or Death end re;Quest.

I love how effects interact. Before I knew about this game these were the mechanics I dreamed about.

Pillars looks food to me though. What's wrong with it? Why is the stat system terrible?

33CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:04 pm

TaiTsurugi

TaiTsurugi
D-Rank
Turn based games are a bit better on console, but they are still way more cluncky. RTwP games are terrible tho.

>PoE
The problem with the stats is that they wanted to simplify stuff,avoid dump stats and make choices more meaningful. They haven't succeded in anything. Dump stats are still here, they are just a lot more confusing to understand and this means that when you start out it's really hard to understand what stats are actually useful as they all seem to be useful. Making a good character from the start can be needesly hard, compared to the classic Strenght for warrio, Int for mages stuff.
The new stats are also way too standardized which means there is little to no choice once you understand them, and every archetype will come out the same. Might for example affect damage of any type, this means that any dps class will need high might, Rogues,Mages,Cyphers,Fighters will all be pretty much the same and will prioritize the same stats. This also badly translates to dialogue choiches and roleplay: Might still translates into physical strenght during conversations and in game events, this means that your puny mage will actually kinda dumb and strong enough to bend steel during events. The same applies with stuff like Intelligence, which is really useful for Barbarians as it effects AoE, so prepare to have your barbarian be the smartest memeber in your party.
Defensive stats are not better, they divided them into 3 different one (It has been a long time since I played it so I don't remember the specific names), but they are poorly balanced and it's way too easy to stack the more useful one and just create an invicible tanks. And considering that most encounter don't offer anything unique and how the aggro system works, every fight play exactly the same. Send your super tank in, take aggro from pretty much everything, maybe use a secondary tank to take the rest and then nuke/cc everything from range. There are some enemy types that can teleport around or break aggro links, but they are few and far between.
Talents choiches are once again the same, they are way too simple and don't offer much so most dps builds will use the same ones,same for tanks or healers.

Story and CnC (Choices and Consequensences) are also mediocre at best and pretty terrible at worse. And companions are generally pretty bad, with some execption in the one written by Avalone.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFWlmU4vDpbsx6v7TMfgtyQ?

34CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:23 pm

Birdman


Moderator
>dump stats
What does this mean?

>hard to understand
That's what YouTube tutorials are for.

>game events/story
Ok but I only care about gameplay.

>plays the same
But PoE1 and especially 2 have insane amounts of builds. PoE2 also has turn based mode.

35CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:35 pm

TaiTsurugi

TaiTsurugi
D-Rank
Dump stats are the stuff you have no use for, so you dump them to increase the one you need more of. Charisma is the prime example in DnD base system. If you are making a Fighter for example, you would dump Charisma at 3 so you can boost Strenght and Dex.

I don't know much about PoE 2 has I never played it (I know that the turn based mode isn't implemented that well and has some bad pathing issues), but with PoE 1 the build variety is not as good as it looks, like I said most of them play the same 'cause of the stat/talent/itemization system.
That said it's a not a terrible game, so if you are this interested on it definetly check it out. I have a more old school mentality with the genre.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFWlmU4vDpbsx6v7TMfgtyQ?

36CRPGs Empty Re: CRPGs on Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:46 am

Birdman


Moderator
>variety
I don't know. I've watched a few videos and a lot seem pretty different.



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