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Ghost of Tsushima

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51Ghost of Tsushima - Page 2 Empty Re: Ghost of Tsushima on Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:43 am

Birdman


Moderator
"Here at Team Ninja, where we have worked on a lot of sword fighting action, we were really impressed with the game overall, and strive to create a title with as much ‘honor’ as Ghost of Tsushima.”

Nothing on mechanics was mentioned.

What is honor?

Has anyone else here played GoT and NG?

52Ghost of Tsushima - Page 2 Empty Re: Ghost of Tsushima on Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:24 pm

GodModeGOD

GodModeGOD
C-Rank
I was fine with Ayslum for what it was. Never got around to trying Mad Max's fisticuffs. ME:SoM struck my fancy, but the Nemesis system was a big part of that (novel). I didn't bother with the sequel. Not even sure I played Arkham City at all (let alone Knight). In terms of a combat system, it certainly didn't shine with bosses generally speaking. It was about as close to a Dynasty Warriors (dressed up like LotR) as I'll ever get. That it had things to deny myself for challenge runs gave it flavor and challenge otherwise lacking, but that's about it. Souls is good stuff. I haven't seen anything about GoT that was able to make me want to play it. I'll probably watch a speedrun before long.

The talk of RPS is quite unappealing. Likewise the stealth, but then it was child's play to exploit in ME:SoM (still enjoyed using it). That wasn't exactly a game about well crafted zones so much as just hunting special snowflakes down. Only terrible players got the 'memorable' histories with Uruks the game was focused on. Didn't really care about branding at all. Beasts mastery wasn't well developed and the armies are sloppy (in terms of commanding them, controlling growth, etc.). I prefer to work alone anyway.

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/the-ultimate-god-of-war-union-bo

53Ghost of Tsushima - Page 2 Empty Re: Ghost of Tsushima on Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:13 am

Hicho9

Hicho9
D-Rank
So yeah, to elaborate more on my feelings, I totally understand why someone would not be as high in praise on Ghost of Tsushima as I am.  Feelings on games and combat systems are all subjective obviously.  

In the end the game is a standard AAA open-world action adventure game.  So I don't mean to overhype it.  If you hate standard AAA open world games, you will probably not like Ghost.  I normally do not like nor play AAA games very much at all, and normally hate most open world games, so Ghost surprised me in how much I loved it.  However, I am a huge sucker and fan for any game with a feudal Japan setting about samurai/ninja so I am already biased in that way.  I think anyone would admit however even if not loving the game that the game's beauty and art direction is just stellar, and it was clearly made with care and passion....this is something I can appreciate and is apparent when playing it.  But again it is nothing overly new or revolutionary at all.

For what it is, to me it has the best, most enjoyable and refined combat I have ever played in a game of it's kind outside of more technical pure action/hack and slash games.  So, I don't mean to compare it to Ninja Gaiden directly in that way---it is not a fair comparison....Ghost's combat does not come close to the depth or challenge/skill ceiling of NG.  But I fully recognize it is not meant to and did not expect it to.  But, for me the combat in Ghost has a respectable amount of depth and is now second only to Ninja Gaiden in terms of pure fun and enjoyment, and in terms of how it feels.

Just to try and articulate this better---I am not a super technical oriented fan of action games.  The NG trilogy are my favorite games of all time due to not just the depth and technical nature of the combat but almost equally in how the combat in NG feels.  It is visceral and lethal, and the animation work reinforces this immersion.  

For this reason, my favorite action/combat after NG up until now was Metal Gear Rising and the Nioh games.  Sekiro now as well, although it took me a long while to warm to Sekiro and I still have some significant reservations on Sekiro's combat design/philosophy even though I now love the game.  The common theme here is combat that just feels fucking good, is visceral and feels deadly.  In contrast, I do not like Dark Souls/Soulsborne combat (slow, cumbersome and just does not feel good to me) and I also am not a fan of Devil May Cry types games/combat.  I have huge respect for the depth/technicality of DMC combat but to me combat design and feel is equally important, and I just can't get past DMC combat feeling so "game-y", a juggle fest with no truly visceral impact or sense of being lethal.  It's about looking stylish and cool, being creative with giant combos, enemies are sponges, etc.....which is great but just not what I am into.  

When you read interviews with the Ghost of Tsushima devs, they stress that a key to their combat design was "respecting the lethality of the blade."  This is fucking music to my ears when describing a combat system.  And they achieve this in Ghost combat---it feels gritty, grounded, bloody and just incredibly good/fun to control, especially on higher difficulties.  The combat animations in Ghost are very immersive and some of the best I've ever seen...again second only to NG in my mind.  Controls, inputs and animations all feel very precise, and you can cancel any animation with block/parry which is awesome when you are fighting against a large group in the game (which is the norm).

So yeah....sorry for the small novel here.  I understand why others would not like the game but I wanted to try and explain more fully why I love it.  Comes down to what you are looking for and your expectations I think of what makes good combat.

Oh and on top of all that, the game has a free multiplayer expansion which is just incredibly fun (two person co-op missions and 4 person co-op horde wave survival).

54Ghost of Tsushima - Page 2 Empty Re: Ghost of Tsushima on Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:34 am

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
Fair points. It's refreshing to see AAA titles get praise for their gameplay from an action perspective. Combat can still be enjoyable and somewhat grounded in reality. Things like the animations, sounds, the feeling of feedback etc. can contribute a lot to the experience.

I'd quite like to try this game myself, but I'll probably wait 'til I get a PS5 for the resolution/framerate improvements, whenever that may be.

55Ghost of Tsushima - Page 2 Empty Re: Ghost of Tsushima on Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:38 pm

Birdman


Moderator
It's too expensive to buy based on little mechanical info.

Though I did read something on builds and poison which sounded promising.

56Ghost of Tsushima - Page 2 Empty Re: Ghost of Tsushima on Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:23 am

Tyr


D-Rank
Yeah, unless I can find it under a significant discount, I'll pass too.

57Ghost of Tsushima - Page 2 Empty Re: Ghost of Tsushima on Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:51 am

Gregorinho

Gregorinho
B-Rank
> Too expensive to buy based on little mechanical info
True. I always buy physical if possible for games like this, so I can sell them on if I don't think much of them. Gonna take this approach here.

58Ghost of Tsushima - Page 2 Empty Re: Ghost of Tsushima on Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:30 am

Hicho9

Hicho9
D-Rank
@Birdman wrote:It's too expensive to buy based on little mechanical info.

Though I did read something on builds and poison which sounded promising.


What questions do you have on the game/mechanics? I am happy to answer as best as I can.

59Ghost of Tsushima - Page 2 Empty Re: Ghost of Tsushima on Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:35 am

Birdman


Moderator
Read Infinity Divide's post (44).

Can you confirm or deny any of it?

To me, it looks like what he said. A basic stance system that only exists to justify the usual fast guy, big shield guy, etc. Traffic light system. Magnet attacks (Arkham/Spidey with no real ranges or spacing).

60Ghost of Tsushima - Page 2 Empty Re: Ghost of Tsushima Today at 11:31 am

RayyanHayabusa


D-Rank
Hi everyone, long time lurker, first time poster here. I actually never knew this forum existed untill Royta told me about it on twitter. Great place to talk about action games. I had to register and post about Ghost though because I need to clear up some misconceptions about this incredible game.

EDIT: I waited to play this on a PS5 as I feel that action games cannot be played enjoyably at 30 fps.
I usually only play action games at 60 fps hence why I waited 6 months. If you have a ps4 and don't mind the frame rate then that is fine but if you are a frame rate freak like me, I would highly recommend you wait and play this on a PS5 instead.

I'm going to get straight to the point. Let's start with why I love this game:

1. A true Samurai game, FINALLY. To be honest I was waiting on a  true next gen Samurai game since Onimusha and Way of the Samurai died about 15 years ago. I loved those games and I feel WotS is very underrated. I just wanted a third person action adventure game with a KATANA in my hand, I mean is that really too much to ask for? well, apparently it was, untill now. This game nails giving you the true Samurai experience.

The setting, the characters, the swordplay, the lore and most importantly Jin Sakai a true Samurai through and through but he has to fight his inner samurai spirit to become the Ghost. A unique take and interesting to play through and slowly watch Jin resort to ninja-like tactics to overcome the powerful mongol empire.

2. It's not another Soulsborne clone, thank the LORD. Since Soulsborne games were the new "thing" every developer out there wants to make a souls clone. Some of my favourite franchises like God of War and Darksiders have fallen victim to this copycat nonsense and it's really pissed me off.

Let Soulsborne be Soulsborne and let classic action slashers be classic action slashers. No need to cross breed them. Ghost is it's own thing, it doesn't desperately try hard to be something it's not.

3. GAMEPLAY PART 1: Hit detection and enemy reaction. In Ghost, if you slash to the right, the enemy will react by stumbling to the right. If your final blow is a slice to the throat, the enemy will hold his blood ridden throat and fall to the ground. Some games (Witcher 3 and some soulsborne games) you will slash away at an enemy and the enemy will just stand there, no reaction. The hit detection is sublime, accompanied with the feedback from the controller, you can really feel your sword piercing through opponents.

4. GAMEPLAY PART 2: NO FREE FLOW COMBAT. I've been reading this thread and was surprised at some people comparing it to Spiderman and the Arkham games' combat. I'm going to be blunt here, I really hate the Batman games, primarily because the combat is free flow, same with that LOTR mordor game and Assassins creeds. Spider-man was tolerable as the excellent web slinging and dodge mechanics saved it, just about. That auto-combo nonsense is not my thing.

in Ghost, you have light attack and heavy attack, not one button to bash away at and go auto combo jumping between 10 different fools lol. Heavy attack is stance specific so for example the moon stance incorporates 2 side kicks and a downwards slash. Holding heavy attack in this stance will unleash a powerful rotating slash attack. So, every stance will have a 3 hit combo heavy attack and a "hold heavy attack" power move. Your light attacks remain the same in every stance, which I don't mind because the move list is pretty extensive if you include  all the the 4 stances' moves and special attacks "pressing 2 buttons together" The combat is tactical. You cannot button bash to victory. Timing of your attacks, blocking, parrying and dodging need to be mastered in order to excel, especially on higher difficulties. By the way you need to play on HARD (1st playthrough) to really appreciate the combat.

4. GAMEPLAY PART 3: PARRYING. The parrying feels fantastic. it takes a while to master "perfect parry" and when you unlock parrying spears, it simply makes the game a joy to play. Deflecting swords not only feels great but actually looks phenomenal too.

5. Animation and Motion Capture of Jin. SP mo capped some of the most skilled sowrdsman in Japan, experts with vast amounts of experience in the fine arts of wielding the Katana and it shows. Jin's animations/mo cap are 10/10.

His footwork, his technique, his grip, his movement, everything is flawless. In my opinion, this is what makes or breaks a game for me when it comes to combat action games. NGII had some of the best combat animations ever created, TO THIS DAY. Ryu's technique and movement is impeccable, same thing with Jin, I can't really fault the animations one bit.

6. BLOOD SPATTER: Let me start off by saying, the blood is red lol No lava (GOW 2018) NO PURPLE MIST (NGS2) none of that stupidity...it's dark red and there's LOTS OF IT.

Now, getting on to the blood spatter, if you slice say for eg, downwards, the spatter will follow your blade then splash on top the ground. Sideways and the spatter will follow your blade and spatter on an enemy for example. Pierce through someone's chest and Jin's face will be covered in blood instantly. The splatter mechanic is done really well and makes you feel like you are inflicting HELL on your opponents. In Ghost stance (kind of like a devil trigger) majority of your attacks de-limb foes, same goes for special attacks on low health enemies.

7. Audio and sound effect design: Commonly overlooked by many, imo this is what makes you "feel" the combat. Onimusha nailed the sound of a Katana ripping through flesh, it sounded brutal and oh so satisfying. Ghost takes this and ramps it up. You can hear every slash, every stab, your Katana piercing through hearts, there's even a different sound effect for a throat slice where the enemy will gargle in pain due to the blood spewing from his throat, rather than screaming in pain, meticulous attention to detail here. This immerses you into the combat intensely and truly makes you feel like a total badass, award winning sound design. If you have a home theatre 5.1.2 system or similar like mine, then you are in for a real treat.

8. Combat is not over the shoulder. Referring back to GOW 2018 I kind of hate the way the camera is just stuck behind Kratos the entire game, a huge dislike of mine and thankfully Ghost does not incorporate this system.

9. METICLUOUS ATTENTION TO DETAIL:
   
        1. Mo capping real-life swordsman. The quality if the animations shines because of this, no  
            doubt. SP really took that extra step, travelled to Japan and mocapped top martial Arts
           sword instructors from the Tenshin Ryu School of Martial Arts....and I'm so glad they did.
        2. Ability to manually sheathe and unsheathe your Katana. I mean, need I say more? what an
            awesome feature to have. After a bloody battle, swiping right on the touchpad to clean the
            blood off your blade and sheathe it, amazing.
        3. Japanese dub. If you're a real samurai nut, then yeah this one's for you. Did they need to
             include it? No. Is it incredible that they did it though? hell yes.
        4. Kurosawa mode. Paying homage to the legendary director himself.
       
There's just too many list so I might save these for another post as this one is long as it is. Let's now talk about why this game may not be for you:

1. THIS IS NOT NG OR DMC. I think some people expected some type of arcade fast-paced combat action game, this is definitely nothing like that. I would say this is more akin to a samurai/katana combat simulator with splashes of arcade combat thrown in.

2. You expected Tenchu from the stealth mechanics. Although the stealth is good, it's just kind of added in as a bonus and to mix up the mission structure.

3. You are a soulsborne fan. Talking to a couple of soulsborne fans and they do seem to prefer bloodborne and other games to Ghost, they don't really like Ghost as much but I would say keep an open mind and give it a try at least.

4. You cannot be bothered unlocking your move set. It takes while to unlock your stances and it is a slow progression. I actually love this as it makes you appreciate what you have worked hard for but some may find it annoying and lose patience.

That's it really, if you're on the fence like me before playing Ghost, give it a go, you might end up loving it. I was afraid of it being a free flow combat clone with no depth but boy was I wrong. GOTY 2020 HANDS DOWN.

61Ghost of Tsushima - Page 2 Empty Re: Ghost of Tsushima Today at 1:28 pm

GodModeGOD

GodModeGOD
C-Rank
>Samurai game
This reminds me. The focus on the katana is not appropriate. It should be about polearms (for melee *secondary*). Being on foot is questionable, too. Should prioritize the horse (and using a bow). Dirty tactics (assassin *ninja* shit) is fair play. Mystical stuff probably not so much. Don't know the game well enough to say if it invokes these matters.

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/the-ultimate-god-of-war-union-bo

62Ghost of Tsushima - Page 2 Empty Re: Ghost of Tsushima Today at 2:02 pm

Birdman


Moderator
>In Ghost, if you slash to the right, the enemy will react by stumbling to the right

See, this is the kind of mechanical shit that should be screamed from the rooftops. Now I'm actually interested.

>If your final blow is a slice to the throat, the enemy will hold his blood ridden throat and fall to the ground.

This, not so much. Nothing more than a death animation. Unless you can use their standing body for some other purpose? Kick into others perhaps?

>your attacks de-limb foes

Is this only visual? Does it have any mechanical purpose? Do enemies change behaviour?

> some people comparing it to Spiderman and the Arkham games' combat

Not because of free flow combat. We were talking about how the character makes contact with his attacks.

>I think some people expected

Definitely wasn't us.

63Ghost of Tsushima - Page 2 Empty Re: Ghost of Tsushima Today at 3:42 pm

GodModeGOD

GodModeGOD
C-Rank
>mechanical purpose with delimbing
Dead Space and NG2 come to mind. Limb damage elsewhere is pretty limited. Something not often enough explored.

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/the-ultimate-god-of-war-union-bo

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