Viewtiful Joe General Discussion

Surprised there isn’t one of these already. Found a PS2 copy of this at a local game store for $12 in near perfect condition. Hooking up my GameCube/Wii to play it gets annoying so I’m stoked I found a PS2 copy.

I played the GC version a lot early last year and it quickly became one of my favorite games in the genre. There so many interesting ideas and mechanics here along with some great boss fights. It even has a couple platforming sections that are pretty brilliant.

Anyone else played this recently?

Yeah. I'm equally in awe and full of praise. I even mention my concerns with the PS2 port controller-wise.
Only a topic away.

https://stinger.actieforum.com/t428-say-the-word-henshin

Too subtle in title?

No. They seem to be hard to find. Which version should I get by the way?

Whoops, guess there was already one of these haha.

>which version to get
I’ve only played the PS2 version for a couple hours so I can’t say for sure. I do like the GameCube controller more for this game though.

While the PS2 version has more content, it just plays nicer on the Gamecube I feel. It really was made with that console's controller in mind and it shows. Unless you really want to play as Dante, just get the Gamecube version I'd say :)

I'm playing the first one and it's very good. I'm having some troubles, especially during boss fights, but it's interesting to learn. I've just finished stage 3 on normal difficulty (Adults).

Most of the bosses can be really rough early on since you don't have all your abilities yet, nor knowledge on how to deal with them and what items to use. Once you get better, optimize your run better and know when to use Voomerangs etc. I love how brutal the game is though, just wish you didn't have a live system (really screws with experimentation imo).

>live system

Turned me off of it honestly

>live system

I'm not too sure if you're talking about checkpoints and if so, they surely could be more "gentle" with the player. I think a bad ranking is enough punishment if you die, but maybe the classic beat 'em up DNA would be ruined if they lower the punishment after a death.

By the way, how high do you think VJ's skill ceiling is? Is it comparable to DMC1's one? I feel, especially during boss fights, there are really strong and dominant tactics (Slow-Zoom->Punch->Slow cancel->Punch for the shark). Every action game has better moves than others, but I'm just curious to hear if your tools are more limited here or not.

> lives system
Just the 'lives' counter, meaning if you ran out of lives you had to replay the stage. Especially annoying if you wanted to experiment on certain bosses or encounters.


> VJ's skill ceiling
There's a very optimal strategy as you noted, but there's a lot to play around with. Especially using your film-techniques in fun ways such as creating ground pounds, setting up Voomerangs, certain Bomb-omb traps - you can get pretty creative, especially when there's other enemies too that you can use as projectiles.

Almost done with stage 5. I'm keeping old saves to experiment a bit and become a better player. I'm really loving the general gameplay flow, also thanks to Saurian's video and some Gamefaqs' topics which are valuable sources of info.

Gen2000 also had a great series on it IIRC, MatthewMathosis' run is also pretty great (while also a good analysis).

May I say real quick that I never watched a video to Viewtiful Joe in full on the y-tube? What's there to see?
I mean it is all very plain to play. If one doesn't Just Go For It!, it doesn't go anywhere.

I once tried to get some "perspective" on how to fight viewtiful and efficient the mighty INFERNO LORD Fire Leo as Alastor. If you don't know: it's tricky because Al uses a Devil Trigger and is very vulnerable without. To approach the sweaty flamethrower and dodge the Big Balls of Fire...it's some small feat to do it, I dare say. So what did I got from the vid? That it was an edited run. Yeah. Pieced together. No. NO.

Royta/Raeng wrote:Gen2000 also had a great series on it IIRC, MatthewMathosis' run is also pretty great (while also a good analysis).

Good to know, I'll watch them after I finish this run. I really liked MatthewMathosis' video on DMC1.

Zenyn wrote:May I say real quick that I never watched a video to Viewtiful Joe in full on the y-tube? What's there to see?
I mean it is all very plain to play. If one doesn't Just Go For It!, it doesn't go anywhere.

I once tried to get some "perspective" on how to fight viewtiful and efficient the mighty INFERNO LORD Fire Leo as Alastor. If you don't know: it's tricky because Al uses a Devil Trigger and is very vulnerable without. To approach the sweaty flamethrower and dodge the Big Balls of Fire...it's some small feat to do it, I dare say. So what did I got from the vid? That it was an edited run. Yeah. Pieced together. No. NO.

Well, in my case I listened to a podcast in which was Saurian and watched this video:

They were helpful to better understand the scoring system and the "basics". The game is not too bad to teach you these things, but I underestimated the importance of dodging and then stunning enemies. I did that but not in an efficient way, here and there. By the way, I watch a video of a certain stage after I beat that stage, so I learn the bosses the hard way.

I have both games on PS2. I haven't finished VJ1 but I think I got pretty far into it. I remember a shark, bat, rhino, Joe clone and some other super hero as bosses.

Just recapping watching some videos. Might play through both soon.



This video seems to be about advanced tech. But the guy talking is lamenting a TAS that uses some kind of zoom punch at high speed. Really hard to do in normal play apparently. Keeps going on about and it's kind of getting annoying to listen to.

Edit: Gets better after around 11 minutes.

I've often heard the sequel is not as good. What are the reasons behind this?

IIRC mostly because of the forced character switches, but I never played it so I can't judge it.

Not a huge fan of constant character switching. Would have to be pretty light.

I need to replay this game. Only played it on... Adult? The game's Normal equivalent. Same goes for Shinobi.

Beat VJ1 on V-rated and tomorrow I'm gonna start ultra V-rated tomorrow.

I enjoyed having to fight Cromarties right from the start, they are really fun enemies to fight, and when they spawn with grenade and rocket launchers it really emphasizes the importance of positioning and also enemy prioritization.

Unlike my adults run, I also started using Mach speed and Voomerangs more in my gameplay and found both to be very useful and fun in their own ways. Already looking forward to experimenting more with bombs and playing with the other characters as well.

P.S: It emulates perfectly on Dolphin, and also has amazing texture packs (100% faithful to the original artstyle), can't recommend it enough. It even has native support for GameCube controllers (That's how I play GC games on Dolphin).

I really like the game is basically "meter management-the game" in a sense, or maybe just "resource managmeent"-the game. They really found fun and unique ways to make the combinations of camera-functions interesting while also having the sub-weapons matter. It might've been better to keep them as normal moves, but you're usually swimming in them so it doesn't matter.

Question: what do you think about the lives-system?

Powers and weapons - Could be interesting if you had them as normal moves that also grant V-points, maybe at the expense of some meter as well to not make them too OP and spammable?

Meter/Resource management the game - Agreed, I simply love how the game has many simple elements that combine together to create something truly unique, and how important positioning is to maximizing your power usage, and by extension, that last ounce of the VFX meter.

During the boss rush, using Voomerangs on Charles combined with slow + zoom when he is on the ground deals insane damage to him. Also useful against King Blue, though it's harder to set up (But so satisfying and rewarding when you pull that off). Fun combination of power + weapon usage, and also one that requires a bit more timing/skill to use.

I also loved how you can hit Cromarties with weapon launchers to make them do melee attacks instead of firing at you, and also launching Black Leaders with the drill (zoom jump) to open them up for a combo. Neat touches.

Lives system - Throughout the game there are quite a few boxes with lives and these extra lives definitely saved my ass, but I think it could have been more forgiving considering the difficulty, I'm sure many players dropped the game because of it. While I'm never using them, save states can be very helpful for emulator users.

What are your opinions on the bosses, and the extra characters if you have tried them (including Dante if you also played the PS2 version)?

> Weapons
Could've gone many ways. Either have them stay a resource, but have the option for a 'free' version that deals 0 damage (but still has the effect). Some items can only be gotten by using Mach Speed on a bomb, which I always found annoying tbh.

> meter
It's something Clover/Platinum do really well generally speaking imo, making you want to inch to that last drop of meter but not have it run out for a big punish (i.e. vanquish, vj, bayo, w101). Only game they screwed it up big time imo was Bayo2 where the meter was inbalanced in terms of options due to Umbran Climax.

> Lives
Yeah it's the reason I also dropped it eventually, as it made practicing certain fights a big chore. I'd love to practice against Blue or the final mech boss, but there's no real ability to do so without replaying other sections which kinda sucks imo. Then again, it does play into the arcade-roots. IIRC VJ2 dropped the lives-system, but cannot confirm.

> other characters
Only went in deep with Joe. I did dabble a bit with the rest, and I do own the PS2 version for Dante but couldn't be bothered to beat the game again on a lower-setting to unlock him haha. You?

I need to beat ultra V-rated first before playing with the other characters, but after that I do plan to beat ultra V-rated with all of them (I do want to attempt Rainbow V runs as well, though not necessarily with every character). Once I'm done with the GCN version, I will emulate the PS2 version and play with Dante.

I recently found out that VJ2 has a mission mode. VJ already has lots of replay value, a good mission mode like NGB could have only made it better, especially for practicing fights and bosses without emulator save states. When I'll get to VJ2 I will share my thoughts, including any changes regarding the lives system.

Meter management - I've only beat Vanquish out of those and only on hard, I was stuck during a certain section in ch2 God Hard that goes like "Go to the left of that KNRB Zero" due to my refusal to use cover, I just couldn't pass it lol. Completely agree though, and I really need to dive deeper into it, but after playing it at 60fps it's gonna take time to get used to 30fps for the proper experience.

> HeAd To tHe LeFt of DAT kNRb ZeR0
A traumatizing moment for many players haha, it's the part in the game where the usage of smokes really is handy as you can basically skip the entire segment that way in like 20 seconds.

God Hard really was the 'way to play' though, but first runs on it are rough. I had like 300+ deaths easily. My current record is 6. One day I hope to get to 0 but I don't think that'll happen without some serious luck like I had with my ZoE2 run.

> 60fps version
Honestly, just play the 60fps version. It runs way smoother, has a ton of compatability with current systems and doesn't make you stick to the PS3 or 360. Yes some boss moves are slightly out of wack but as a newbie you'll not notice this at all. I'm about as hardcore a fan as you can get for this game and have done a ton of challenge runs on it, and I'm not touching the original release again tbh.

>Vanquish
The X360 version can be played on Xbox One/Series and it should be 30fps without drops. If the emulation doesn't add some annoying input lag, then it could be a valid alternative to the 60fps remaster.

I have the PC version (which I can easily lock to 30) and also the 360 version on my XSX. I remember the video you sent me that shows how a move on God Hard that is supposed to be a OHKO at 30 fps barely does any damage at 60, things like that sadly rub me the wrong way, and I say this as a 60fps whore.

Good to know that I'm not the only one that struggled with KNRB Zero section lol, I will keep that in mind when I will play Vanquish again.

To remain on topic - I started Ultra V-rated yesterday and got to the first save point. I really love how playing without the skull markers opens up the game by forcing you to have better awareness for enemy attacks and behaviors, thus encouraging usage of starts that make you play in a more proactive and aggressive way instead of just waiting for the skull indicators to show and dodge.

Yeah don't be discouraged. 1-3, headtotheleft, 5-2 and 5-3 are the 'run killers' for most players.

> no skull markers
It's such a simple change but REALLY forces you to up your game. This also has a pretty good backwards design, since it's very clear that they designed it without the markers first and just added them for lower settings. Kinda like how Batman did that later-on as well with the counter-signals.

Playing this now. Never finished it.

It's been a while and I've forgotten a lot.

So is the goal to dizzy an enemy by dodging, which opens them up to being sent flying, then try to knock them into others?

I love how you can hit back bullets and rockets.

Essentially yes, hitting back bullets and rockets also stuns enemies. It's all about maximising VFX powers and meter usage combined with constant repositioning to avoid being it and creating bigger combos (hitting more enemies in one combo).

The game can fast paced with enemies putting lots of pressure on you so try to avoid fully draining your meter.

Looks like it might be a good idea to dodge and stun two (or more if stun duration allows) then slow punching in different directions for more collisions.

Is this better than stunning one guy and punching him into a line of others?

Not sure how scoring works but at this point I'm just playing through getting use to things.

Hitting several dizzied enemies before entering slow-mo is a great thing to do as it will help you earn more V-points. however it won't necessarily help you hit more enemies while in slow-mo.

Once you hit a dizzied enemy in slow-mo, you can throw all the other enemies even if they weren't dizzied beforehand. good positioning is what will help you create more collisions.

As for lining up enemies or hitting in different directions, that depends on the situation, but I think that generally lining them up against walls will help you hit more enemies, almost getting a God Hand HSK spam vibe here lol.

>Hitting several dizzied enemies before entering slow-mo is a great thing to do
I've had some cool situations where I had multiple guys on both sides. Dodged the guys closest on either side, then went into slow and punched them left and right into both groups.

>it will help you earn more V-points.
What are the exact rules for V points? I noticed you get them from normal hits too. Is it worth doing that then slow smashing them?

>God Hand
Feels like 3D VJ in some ways.

You can also punch enemies upwards with uppercuts or diagonally with kicks. Everything is useful depending on the situation.

I compared it to God Hand's HSK spam in the sense that you can line up a group of enemies against a wall and use it to land more hits, which can be very useful against enemies that don't die in 1 hit during slow-mo. You'll need good positioning to line up enemies like that, so it needs to be earned.

Yeah, Viewtiful Joe and God Hand definitely share some similarities in that both of them have unique dodge systems that aren't iframed (aside from the back roll in God Hand) and put a focus on using enemies as projectiles.

V-points - Everytime you hit a dizzied enemy you get 10 V-points. When in slow mo, you get 10 V-points for each enemy you hit, and the multiplier also grows by 1 (if an enemy is already dying you only get the V-points). I might be missing some details but that's pretty much how they work.

If for example you manage to get 100 V-points before entering slow-mo, and then you land 5 hits, your 150 v-points will be multiplied by 5, which is why I always try to get as many v-points as possible before entering slow-mo.

>You can also punch enemies upwards with uppercuts or diagonally with kicks
Yeah this is super fun. Hit bombs and stuff up too.

>Everytime you hit a dizzied enemy you get 10 V-points
So to get the most points you dizzy them, then hit them with normals until they're close to death, then smash them with a slow attack? How much can you get in before they die before the slow?

The dive kick seems good for catching enemies out of range when in slow. Slide looks like it offers the same.

Slide can also be used to evade attacks, like when enemies are doing dive attacks.

How many hits enemies can get before dying varies by the enemy type, I think the regular Bianky can get 4 hits on adults and 6 on V-Rated and Ultra V-Rated.

I lost most of my notes on this game but it's super cool yeah. Also quite daring. I remember being surprised that the game 'dumps' your meter-upgrades per chapter, forcing you to explore. Thought that was always a neat and daring design choice.

EDIT: I also own the PS2 version, but for some reason cannot get into it. The GCN version was great for me, I think it's because of the controller but I'm not sure tbh.

Placing the VFX powers on R1 and L1 instead of R2 and L2 without having the option to change it is a bummer. The sound quality is also massively degraded to the point where it hurts the experience. It also definitely feels nice to play on a Gamecube controller (that's how I play it), although it plays just as well on a Xbox controller.

Still wanna download a save and play as Dante though. And personally I loved the level designs and even the shump section.

Yeah I really want to play as Dante too, he sounds super fun to toy around with, but slogging through the PS2 version again isn't what I have in mind for fun haha.