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Shinobi (PS2)

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1Shinobi (PS2) Empty Shinobi (PS2) on Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:00 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Making this topic because of bullseye strider's latest work.

2Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:33 am

Gabriel Phelan Lucas

Gabriel Phelan Lucas
S-Rank
I’ve got my PS2 copy here, I’ll play it some time.

3Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:40 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
I'm surprised there was no topic about this yet. Absolutely love this game. Heard a certain mr.animator wrote a killer piece about it one day Razz

Bullseye's work on it is fenomanal, as is XLH's efforts in it. Great, great game. Though I also have to say it is sometimes a bit annoying to play. In some stages I really have 'fun', but a lot of times it is also a "glad that's over with" feeling. Might be because one wrong move = redo the whole stage.

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4Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:14 am

Birdman


Moderator
I've only watched a the first few stages and saw something I didn't know was possible. Will fully analyze tomorrow. I'm sure there's more goodies here.

5Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:36 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Bullseye always puts in a lot of good work. Great runs all around, tends to at least. I always like how he makes it seem effortless, but as noted in the comments it takes a lot of hard work.

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6Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:45 am

Birdman


Moderator
I've watched up to stage 4.

Here's what I didn't know.

*You can destroy the helicopter's missiles with shurikens. I used to stand under it and hit them with the sword.

*After Moritsune falls off the edge, and then comes down from above with that blue energy blast. It can hurt and stun the enemies. Looks similar to a shuriken stun, but I'm not sure if it has the exact same properties because those enemies died from it too.

*The double boss fight with the girl and the chain guy was interesting. Never considered using the shurikens to damage her like that. I wonder if the guy always just stands there while you do this? If not that was some extreme luck.

Is this commonly known stuff? Either way, for me personally, it's amazing to find out new stuff after so many years.

There's a few points where I'm not sure what he was trying to do. Maybe build points by making more enemies appear in boss fights for points? But he would have already easily had the required S rank points from the stage right? I've never S ranked super though.

7Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:28 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Most of the things you note are documented and have been around for a while, but they still aren't well known things by any means. Note that to not have the buy boss attack in that dual fight, you need some luck and good spacing. 

Could you give an example of the enemies during bosses? I know in some cases he does it to get the highest kill-chain possible during that fight for a higher score, but in some cases - like the final boss - he uses it to setup the instantkill with Hotsuma.

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8Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:37 am

Birdman


Moderator
It could be super only strats, but I'm pretty sure the same stuff works from hard. I've beat super and I don't remember anything too different outside of being harder.

Why did he only use the missiles to damage the boss? You can get in tons of hits normally. I just felt he could have done more damage and not let it drag on so long. The second helicopter took quite a while.

On that spider tiger boss, he could have used wall run to get the second and final full charged attack but instead he ran up on the ground, did nothing, then dropped the chain and had to kill the spiders again. I know at that point the boss moves higher but that's what the wall run is for.

It's probably just something I'm missing related to ranking in super. Most likely you need more points for the S-rank.

9Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:17 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
> only missiles
You get points based on how many times you hit a boss. You get the maximum for hitting him once (some bosses allow more as they cannot be one-shot). So he had to wait until the boss was at the lowest amount of HP.

> tiger boss
The boss takes double damage if you attack him while moving up and down, this is easier to time if you attack him from the ground. That's why he didn't attack the second time, the boss wasn't moving. So the attack wouldn't have killed him (and you need to kill him in two hits for max points).

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10Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:30 am

Birdman


Moderator
You get points based on how many times you hit a boss
Either I forgot this fact or never knew. I did know you got max points from the one hit kill (or two when required). Totally makes sense now.

So have you watched it all the way through yet? Im loving how he uses shuriken burst before the final hit on some bosses.

11Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:29 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Watched most of it currently, such a fantastic run. He does the burst because it cannot be blocked which makes it great for getting that last hit in guaranteed.

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12Shinobi (PS2) Empty you can't fight what you can't comprehend on Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:53 am

Zenyn

Zenyn
D-Rank
Initially abhorred this title, mainly for not having 'the stuff'. Had some weird on/off over the years, 'til I beat it and felt "revenged". Started Hard and unlocked Moritsune but did nothing else. Giving it now a closer look with the benefit of other action experiences.

thecuttingroomfloor wrote:Regional Differences

The game had the following difficulty settings in the Japanese and European versions: Easy, Normal and Hard. Easy was removed entirely in the US version, which shifted the collectables from Normal to Hard and added in an extra "Super" difficulty with the Hard mode collectables. Super is the only difficulty where default character Hotsuma can't kill the later bosses in one hit.

So in the NA version 'Super' is basically Hard Mode with no one-hit bosses?

13Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:06 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Personally it is one of the absolute bests in the genre, for numerous reasons (check the article on the site if you want). Not sure what you mean with 'the stuff', wombo-combos?

And yeah basically that. You can still OHKO every boss with Hotsuma in NA Super / EU Hard if you know what you're doing though. Some bosses need to be hit during certain animations while others require a charged attack from behind at max Tate.

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14Shinobi (PS2) Empty perhaps this is our destiny on Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:02 pm

Zenyn

Zenyn
D-Rank
Me. I was missing the stuff. Concentration, dedication, admiration. At that point I didn't ventured through Vigoor and back. Sure, the mechanics are simple, yet I adore now how Overworks did the transition from 2D to this. The designs of heroes and foes have a certain flash that I like.
I progress as ever in little bursts, aiming to unlock Joe and finishing Hard mode. At 4-A atm. Need to get sharper. Not zing enough.

About the article. Your words. Postscript notes. I'm a little muddled.

"The American version has Normal, Hard and Super difficulties, while the European version adds an Easy mode, while removing Hard and renaming Super to Hard."

I'm guessing since the NA version of the game got released first, there is the consensus that's the "original version"? And that PAL and JPN are variants of it? Strikes me as weird. I'd say a game from a Japanese dev and company defines the JPN version as original. And the other as variants. Please indulge me on this, I simply cannot abide this 'changing to appeal to different territories' game some PR people play. Stop changing names in false hope to make more profit. Don't get me started on the name change of Kunoichi. Just  Mad

"Contrary to popular belief, European Hard isn’t the same as American Hard, it is the same as the American Super difficulty;"

It is? So that would make the JPN version a very different kind of animal?

"Hotsuma is a generic ninja, but his scarf – a simple red haze – sticks out and leaves a distinct mark on an otherwise bland world. Akujiki is also a very simplistic looking sword."

Beg to differ. I think Hotsuma's apperance has identity albeit the obvious scarf. The headband refers to something hellspawn, so much so that I often tend to overlook his actual pair of eyes. The strings of kunai on his arms add a nice touch of a combat-proven attire (similar to Hayabusa's Legendary Black Falcon garb). Can't find that generic enough. Now, Joe on the other hand... maybe that's considered classic. Classic as generic. Also Akujiki gets points for the devilish vibe from me. No contest, but what does the famous Dragon Sword when it is maxed-up? It glows in the dark. Fiendish Razz

15Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:21 pm

Birdman


Moderator
original
Would be whatever was released first, but I'm more concerned with which version is best. Sometimes both have something on offer. There are a few games I have for multiple regions.

design
The first thing that stuck out for me when I first played this was Hotsuma's helmet. It looks creepy with all the eyes but also high tech, like it has all kinds of visual modes. He never does anything with it though, but I feel that adds to the mystery.

The scarf is cool. Reminded me of Ryoma's red scarf (Shin Getter Robo) of Tetsuo's red cape (Akira).

16Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:21 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Muddled words? I'm not the one constantly talking in half-broken haikus haha.

But yeah, the Japanese release could be considered the 'original' version. The USA version is technically the easiest as it has a better spread of difficulties while also having more logical unlock sequences, the EU and JPN versions unlock some player characters later iirc. In the end the 'highest' difficulty settings are all the same across all versions, they are just named differently.

In regards to his attire, I never found it too memorable outside of the scarf, hence why I wrote it. The 'spider eyes' are a nice touch though. The kunai is quite a common design. Even Batman used them in the 70's and in later Japanese iterations.

@Birdman

I always felt that different vision modes were thought off, but eventually dropped for some reason. Scarf always reminded me of Spawn for some reason.

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17Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:28 am

Birdman


Moderator
Yeah the scarf and helmet are really the only unique things that separate his design from the run of the mill ninja.

Never got into Spawn though I knew what he looked like, but K was into those old super robot animes and heroes where a lot of them have a scarf or cape. The two I mentioned were the most stand out for me.

18Shinobi (PS2) Empty you fought well on Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:43 pm

Zenyn

Zenyn
D-Rank
No, not muddled words on your part. Only muddled thoughts on mine. If I do confuse, then it's not by will and conscious. Only by expression. Here comes a new challenger. Don't mistake me for what I am not.

4 - A hard clear. It helps to focus if I do a normal practise run of the stage to map it out. Often with Moritsune for more aggressiveness. Speaking of, say did some of you a first hard trough with him? I get the notion that some may be easier-ish. A higher reward given the higher risk. I do hard with the default guy and sometimes it seems a bit inapt, is why I ask.

19Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:33 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Moritsume is generally considered 'easy mode' due to his high damage output. While his Tate does drain faster, this is only really an issue in but a few encounters and the EX-map. If you're on Hard Mode you tend to already know the patterns of most rooms so he shouldn't be too much of a problem to use.

Hotsuma tends to be harder to use considering he needs a back-charged slash for later bosses for the famed OHKO. Joe is a novelty mode, since he can negate nearly all fights with his infinite kunai. Honestly I like playing as him the most.

A really fun run to do (eventually) is a no-kunai run without scrolls, just rely in your positioning. Very intense I can tell you.

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20Shinobi (PS2) Empty forgive me on Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:04 am

Zenyn

Zenyn
D-Rank
Alright. 5-A. The wall-creeping gals. silent Feels wonky. I mean, start with first set. Three air fish and one gal. By the time I reach the gal she either creeped near the rising water line and met her end or the 5 seconds run out. No tate. I find it risky to hit them, so I kunai instead. More then one time I was sniped out of the air by one of them in tight corridors. It does not feel well. Just off. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

21Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:10 am

Birdman


Moderator
feels off
What does?

creeped near the rising water
I've seen that happen a few times.

risky to hit them
Why?

kunai instead
To paralyze them?

sniped out of the air by one of them in tight corridors
doing it wrong
Break it down. What caused the hit? The tight corridors? Your awareness of the enemy's location and abilities?

22Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:47 am

Zenyn

Zenyn
D-Rank
@Birdman wrote:feels off
What does?

The foe and the positioning. The stages before not much. But in 5-A with the water I can't speak for a coherence.

@Birdman wrote:creeped near the rising water
I've seen that happen a few times.

Well, I've seen it many times. Granted the game is not the well polished product that could be later expected of a fast-paced action game. Clearly not a glitch. Still feels "off".

@Birdman wrote:risky to hit them
Why?

For the attack and the positioning. The attack is a stunner. With the water it's game over. Often I attacked head-on, got stunned, plummeted. Running on walls and attacking, lock-on or not, seems ineffective. As I say, the enemy itself is no worry, yet in this stage I find it questionable.

@Birdman wrote:kunai instead
To paralyze them?

To kill them off. I'm not touching that anymore.

@Birdman wrote:sniped out of the air by one of them in tight corridors
doing it wrong
Break it down. What caused the hit? The tight corridors? Your awareness of the enemy's location and abilities?


A corridor. Three air fish spawn and one gal. While I attack the fish the gal makes her move. It hits and I go down.

23Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:15 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
5-A is a pretty hard stage to get right, because you have to in some instance rush and in others, for a good tate-score, pull multiple fights at once. BullseyeStrider is one of the premiere Shinobi players, this is a pretty good run at it: https://youtu.be/WVW5BbkddqI

Lots of enemy manipulation and pause-charging done in instances. I wouldn't call the game lacking in polish, at least in the gameplay department, the title just demands perfection fairly quick. Stage 5 tends to be where people give up, as it is noted as the point in the game where you'll "see more walls than floors", which is true. Stage 6 on Super is even worse, and the only stage I could never 100% because some of the rooms just confused me (they look very similar in an attempt to confuse you).

Personally I quite like the stun-ninjas in this stage, it is such a weak enemy but combined with the OHKO water it is a smart use of an enemy type. Most of the enemies in Shinobi can't really kill you anyway. They are all made to slow you down, take your time and annoy you while your blade bleeds you dry. Same is true here. Always be sure to have a kunai or dash ready when approaching them.

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24Shinobi (PS2) Empty Re: Shinobi (PS2) on Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:17 am

Birdman


Moderator
Yeah you want to stun her first then attack or you'll most likely get dropped.

You don't have to go after enemies in the order they appear. Think about which one is troubling you then try taking them out first.

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