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P.N.03

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1 P.N.03 on Sun 1 Apr 2018 - 23:48

Birdman


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I thought we had a topic for this game already but I couldn't find it. I guess I was mistaken.

I've been watching these analysis videos a bit lately. I disagree with a lot of what is said in this video. What are you views?

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2 Re: P.N.03 on Wed 4 Apr 2018 - 7:46

First off, it was pretty funny to hear him say the title as "Piano 3". Same with "miegami" as "Mikami". There's some flaws in the origins of the game, lot of his history is just incorrect, which is a shame. Things like the 9 month development cycle are ommitted for instance.

Few points, because most of his points ring hollow for me:
-the shooting, the whole point of the game is that you stand still. It's Space Invaders, basically. The whole thing the game is built around is knowing when to dodge and keep up the pressure.
- while I don't like it either, the shooting isn't automatic at first (you can buy it later) to teach you to make your shots count. As I noted in the article, a pro player will eventually know just how many shots it takes to kill every enemy, because he had to press the button himself.
- on the dodging, his point is mostly that it's different and thus doesn't work. I admit, it takes getting used to, but not everything has to be like Vanquish or Bayonetta with an omni-dodge.
- the camera is true, it's horrible.
- I'm surprised he didn't mention the absolutely broken balance or the final challenge.

Granted, the video had a lot more care and effort put into it than I usually see. Good music too and the guy genuinly likes the game.

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3 Re: P.N.03 on Wed 4 Apr 2018 - 8:24

I haven’t played PNO3 but I can tell some complaints are off here:

>“Trying to be a cover shooter”?
Excuse me? Cover shooter...no no no. The term is shoot em up shooting gallery. It’s clearly no more a cover shooter than space invaders, where cover exists but the game isn’t designed solely around the act of taking cover so much as it is actually dodging attacks. Hence the various dodge moves(which he fails to mention) and special moves with Iframes.

>Stiff controls

Precise is more accurate here, same with god hand and re4 which all use tank controls(this is Mikami, I think he’d know how to tank controls), this seems awkard at first but once you understand the movement you will always move the way you want. It’s designed like a shooting gallery ala space invaders and wild guns, more so wild guns as the act of shooting and moving are mutually exclusive(this being the antithesis of typical run n gun design notably), so you must pick your chance to shoot or move carefully. 

Run down a hallway, see a bunch of enemies, engage firefight, move on and repeat cycle until boss/level ends. Given that this was a rushed budget title(is it?) its understandable how simple the games design is at its core, this game focuses on its core gameplay with no distractions and tons of asset reuse out of pragmatism than lack of creativity. Games like this are repetitive by their nature(anything with gameplay can be described as routine to some degree), it’s how much you enjoy it that matters.

>Lack of offensive move variety

Yet he doesn’t mention the various special moves which are even seen in said vid, a major oversight. The way it’s designed seems similar to many shmups again, as in how your shots are wide and/or accurate(pno3 uses a hard lock on mechanic) enough so that you can focus on dodging instead of what your aiming at, as you know you will hit a given target so focus on the incoming threats. The variety and nuance looks to come from tactical usage of special moves and the intricacies of dodging(again multiple dodge moves to master) as well as the enemy types and bosses. Various suit types also change gameplay in tangible ways.

As the basic act of shooting in shmups and shooters(especially hitscan shooters, literally instant hit bullets) in general is usually quite simple, it’s everything around the act of pointing and clicking that usually gives proper depth and dynamism.

In this case(and every other), it’s whether or not you even enjoy the core gameplay at all, as one could ponder how many games one likes that are as, if not more basic than the above title(I’d say Shock Troopers is excessively simple but I love it since it’s fast arcade fun). This guy just doesn’t but at least tried to explain why even if it’s ultimately them just not liking this particular game and seemingly not bothering to learn the actual mechanics(which is the real hinderence to their enjoyment). Maybe learn the game as is before making amendments to it.

EDIT: haha, just saw Roy’s comment, said some similar stuff and I found their pronunciation of mikami and pno3 amusing also.

Also is pn03 pal copy have a 60hz option? I’ve read it doesn’t.

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4 Re: P.N.03 on Wed 4 Apr 2018 - 8:52

Birdman


Moderator
I will NEVER understand why any human cannot pronounce Japanese perfectly. It has some of the easiest pronunciation I've ever heard. Even if you don't want to put in the minimal effort to learn the sounds, you can still just look up single names or sounds if you want to use them in videos. This goes for voice acting too. It is NOT that hard.

PAL has 60hz. I own it along with the JP version. I have both versions because they have differences.

I'd say the guy sucks. Simple. When he's complaining about dodging he shows a clip of him using the extended dodge to run into a wall and get himself shot, and there were other instances of him using bad gameplay footage in an attempt to strengthen his position. You should never use the extension aside from certain situations.

He didn't even go into the various types of dodging, crouching, jumping options. Some attacks can be dodged by simply hopping in place. I even know of one where you can avoid it standing still.

P.N.03 has some of the most original gameplay around. All he wants is it to be either another cover shooter of some kind of action game where you can freely run and jump all over the place.



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5 Re: P.N.03 on Fri 3 Aug 2018 - 13:06

Birdman


Moderator
Recent mentions of this game has made me want to play it again. I might set up the GC tomorrow if I have time. I mentioned some jumping options in the other thread I just want to go over again and check if they're like I remember. Always wanted to to do a guide for this game.

My GC controller is in crap condition though. I really need to find an official replacement.

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6 Re: P.N.03 on Fri 3 Aug 2018 - 15:49

Are you going to record some of it? Would be cool to get some decent footage on it for once.

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7 Re: P.N.03 on Fri 3 Aug 2018 - 23:02

Birdman


Moderator
I still don't have the right version of Windows so no recording for now. I will once I get everything set up.

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8 Re: P.N.03 on Mon 6 Aug 2018 - 9:50

I can imagine. That said, would be great to see good gameplay of it for once. And of course Vanessa's gloriously weird jiggle ass.

Jokes aside it is a great underloved game. I had the misfortune of quiting just as I started my OHKO run with that black suit, so getting back in is quite a hurdle now.

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9 Re: P.N.03 on Sat 25 Aug 2018 - 12:10

Birdman


Moderator
I dug up my old notes on the Japanese version. These notes are ANCIENT. I don't even remember writing them. They deal with suit costs and some extra stuff at the end.

Prime Series

*Prima Fusion
Barrier - 20000
Palm Shot - 25000
Auto - 35000
EN - 20000
ED - 40000

*Prima Blazer
Barrier - 20000
Palm Shot - 25000
Auto - 35000
EN - 20000
ED - 40000

*Prima Guardian
Barrier - 20000
Palm Shot - 25000
Auto - 35000
EN - 20000
ED - 40000


Intera Series

*Intera Fusion
Barrier - 25000
Palmshot - 30000
Auto - 40000
EN - 25000
ED - 45000

*Intera Blazer
Barrier - 25000
Palmshot - 30000
Auto - 40000
EN - 25000
ED - 45000

*Intera Guardian
Barrier - 25000
Palmshot - 30000
Auto - 40000
EN - 25000
ED - 45000

Ultra Series

*Ultra Fusion
Barrier - 30000
Palmshot - 35000
Auto - 45000
EN - 30000
ED - 50000

*Ultra Blazer
Barrier - 30000
Palmshot - 35000
Auto - 45000
EN - 30000
ED - 50000

*Ultra Guardian
Barrier - 30000
Palmshot - 35000
Auto - 45000
EN - 30000
ED - 50000


Special Suits

*Blackbird
Barrier - 30000
Palmshot - 35000
Auto - 45000
EN - 30000
ED - 50000

*Papillon
Barrier - 30000
Palmshot - 35000
Auto - 45000
EN - 30000
ED - 50000

Items
*Continue +1 - 10000
*Continue +3 - 20000

Other
*JP version has less enemies in some areas.
*Can't skip dialogue scenes.
*NG+ doesn't carry over regular suits. Only Blackbird and Papillon.
*Only 1 trial mission per stage.
*Unlocking requirements for special suits are different and easier.

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10 Re: P.N.03 on Tue 28 Aug 2018 - 7:55

Good notes!

> trial missions
These broke the game for me. Doing those random trials per mission got really tiring for me.

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11 Re: P.N.03 on Tue 28 Aug 2018 - 8:34

Birdman


Moderator
I hated the ones that used that layout that was white and looked like a lab. There's this one room with a few twisting paths with 3 doors. A few times I had a trial with multiple rooms like this which causes me to run around trying to find the door I missed. Infuriating.

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12 Re: P.N.03 on Tue 28 Aug 2018 - 9:09

I know exactly the room you mean, in the worst case you'll see one of those three doors go to the same exact room which means for an even bigger mind-maze as you noted. It's even more annoying since you really need those points to upgrade your suits.

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13 Re: P.N.03 on Tue 28 Aug 2018 - 10:53

Birdman


Moderator
Yeah, and at that time it got so bad I would actually keep a notepad next to me and write down which door I used.

really need those points to upgrade your suits
That was quite a grind. As you can see from my post, the Japanese costs are ridiculously lower. I still have my PAL save, but if I ever lost that, I don't think I could ever play that version again.

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14 Re: P.N.03 on Tue 18 Sep 2018 - 3:47

http://stinger.actieforum.com/t62-dodging-and-it-s-uses-in-action-games Comment No.13.

@Birdman wrote:P.N 03 is awesome and has a few types of dodge.

*left right dodge for avoiding linear, straight line attacks, or dodging homing missiles at the last second. It's actually a two part dodge but I rarely use the second part. Useful if you are still in danger and want a little more space I guess.

*crouching - for sweeping horizontal fire or ducking behind cover or in trenches.

*crouch rolls - while crouching you can roll left, right, back and forward. Some enemies have attacks that are linear but hit low as well. I find this my least used dodge though.

*jumping - this is also used to dodge a few things. You can jump over horizontal fire and missile if you jump at the last second.

There aren't any i-frames either.


What are these Trial missions? Would someone kindly detail the special moves also?

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15 Re: P.N.03 on Tue 18 Sep 2018 - 5:33

Birdman


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After every stage you can access trial missions. They are just a randomly generated series of rooms and enemies.

Special moves? You mean the Energy Drives? They're special attacks that require meter to use.

Did you want details on the actual moves? I can't remember the actual names though, or the nes I barely touched.

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16 Re: P.N.03 on Tue 18 Sep 2018 - 5:42

Yeh the special attacks or whatever the equivalent is called.

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17 Re: P.N.03 on Tue 18 Sep 2018 - 7:07

Birdman


Moderator
Energy Drives.

If you have the meter, you input the command. They have these weird inputs like up,down,A.

The one I used the most was called Swan I think. She fires out a few homing lasers, but it wasn't great in closed spaces or up close because it could hit walls or miss.

There's one that fires a shot that ricochets off walls, and one that makes you invincible for a few seconds.

Can't really remember the rest.

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18 Re: P.N.03 on Tue 18 Sep 2018 - 7:53

They are kind of super moves like magic, but they aren't very well put together. Some inputs are very hard to pull off thanks to the lackluster d-pad on the Gamecube, and others are just useless or completely overpowered. Each suit only has 1 to 3 Drives (depending on the suit), the exception being the Papillon Suit which has all of them but has no health and shields, so you die in one hit.

Harrier tends to be the go-to since it just wrecks everything and is straight ahead. Pegasus is similar as it can hit multiple foes, but most prever Harrier's damage. Swan, which Birdman noted, is a homing missile. Good damage but the tracking and collision on it is horrible.

Drives like Gullwing (a huge ball that explodes into smaller balls) and Falcon (lasers in a 360degree angle) are more novelty actions since they rarely come into play.

And then we have the game breaker: Tengu. Basically it makes you invincible for 5 seconds (more on PRO) and doubles your damage output from your weapon, while also having low cost. It wrecks the ranks and is just really really good.

Each Drive also has a 'pro' version that has increased stats (more damage, lasts longer etc.)

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