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Grappling in action games

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1 Grappling in action games on Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:22 am

Just put this here, nothing to note yet.

To start, discuss DMC4 Nero's Devil Bringer, GoW grapples and Death by Degrees grapples. HAJIME!!!

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2 Re: Grappling in action games on Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:24 pm

It's a weird concept in games like these, but often times it has been done excellently. Nero's grab was cool in that it allowed for QTE's without having QTE's. Gamingbritshow said it nicely in his DMC4 review that, when you fight the final boss, you know that you can grapple his stinger back at him. And that you can grab the lances Credo throws, you learn all that via gameplay; which is a cool touch. 

God of War has the most ranges covered though, with unique grabs for unique situations. Air to air, air to ground, holds, throws, pummels, there's a ton of options on display which I quite love.

Another game which also had pretty unique grapples, of all games to mention: Metroid Other M. While I tend to ignore its existence, this title did have some unique concepts. If you froze enemies for instance you could jump on their heads for a grapple, and stuff like that. Pretty unique, really had that Team Ninja flair.

Grabs do tend to be broken though, since most have - thanks to their long animations - i.frames. Nero's grab out-damaged nearly his entire repertoire while also having some good i.frames and reduced hitboxes here and there. Kratos is nearly untouchable and Ryu's Guillotine Throw is easily one of the best moves in the franchise. 

In terms of Death by Degrees, tons of options: but all horrible. It's a great example of a great idea gone wrong. The grapple system is really complex with a plethora of options, but no reason to use them. They deal less damage generally compared to your regular strikes, they do less hits (so less combo, so less EXP as a reward), you have no i.frames during them so only useful 1v1 thanks to their long (and well animated) animations. They also barely build x-ray meter, so yeah..great idea: poorly executed.

Warrior Within is my favorite though, such a great combat system and one that really manages to input grapples without breaking the game.

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3 Re: Grappling in action games on Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:43 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Why does everyone hate Other M? Story? I found it excellent gameplay-wise. I'm not a story person so dont care what it's about.

The chain in Pandora's Tower is totally unique. Not everything is shown in this video.

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4 Re: Grappling in action games on Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:48 pm

@Birdman wrote:Why does everyone hate Other M? Story? I found it excellent gameplay-wise. I'm not a story person so dont care what it's about.

The chain in Pandora's Tower is totally unique. Not everything is shown in this video.

I honestly don't even think the infinite word-count this forum provides can visualize the intense loathing I have for nearly every pixel and polygon of that game haha. The hate goes deeeeeep friend. I don't want to go all berserker-stance on this forum, but yeah it is...pretty well known amongst my real life friends to never mention two things:
- modern star trek films
- Other M

They make me livid haha!

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5 Re: Grappling in action games on Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:05 am

Birdman


Moderator
Just tell me this. Is it story or gameplay?

I get the story problems. Read all about them. But from a pure gameplay perspective, what do you think?

I personally found it quite fun.

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6 Re: Grappling in action games on Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:07 am

It is both actually. The story sends me into extreme fits of rage, the gameplay makes me want to coming acts of war. The art-direction is pretty funny in the sense that they tried to make a 3d version of the 2d designs, but it all just falls to pieces. They didn't even bother to make a skin for the Gravity Suit, all bosses are rehashes from other games (some even that take place LATER in the timeline), the gameplay is a former streamlined lineair shell of the original, there are a ton of interruptions, you can't speedrun, you can't really explore, the "autherize" mechanic makes me want to throw my control-you get the point haha. 

I did enjoy the "Maxximum" edition hack a lot more though, when I write about it I'll also cover that.

info on the hack: https://www.reddit.com/r/Metroid/comments/6msbxg/other_m_maxximum_edition_fix_hack_first_release/

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7 Re: Grappling in action games on Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:32 am

Yakuza series has grapples. I only played Zero, noteworthy example is beast style which has unique grab animations where Kiryu tosses foes around, he can pick them up by the leg also, great for collisions. as well as Dragon of Dojima style has the same grabs.

Ah no more heroes series has grabs, Travis is a master sword man as well as wrestler. You can grab stunned enemies and perform a QTE, what move you get is dependent on the direction you face but I'd mostly random. In NMH2 grabs vary by enemy type. Some moves will just highly damage a foe and leave them grounded for a ground kill but others will instantly kill them. Bosses have unique grab moves and once you beat the boss you can now use that as a regular grapple.

How does Warrior Within handle grapples?

Guacamelee is built around grappling, you can grab most enemies and toss them in a direction so they collide with enemies and hazards, you can also perform a vertical suplex, powerbomb and I think DDT.

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8 Re: Grappling in action games on Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:43 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Fair enough. I never got far in Other M but I enjoyed the combat and really want to get back into it. I've noticed I always seem to like entries in long running series that are different from the rest and usually hated. Like Zelda Spirot Tracks and WW though that one isnt hated but definitely different.

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9 Re: Grappling in action games on Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:43 pm

Hey hey, back on topic Mister!!!

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10 Re: Grappling in action games on Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:14 pm

Birdman


Moderator
I'll post some CL stuff when I get home.

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11 Re: Grappling in action games on Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:45 am

Dragons Dogmas got grabs, I know as a chucked some goons of a cliff. You can toss your pawns or vice versa if they are the warrior class so you can jump onto large monsters.

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12 Re: Grappling in action games on Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:32 am

Birdman


Moderator
Hatred's grab assist in Chaos Legion. Works on a few other boss attacks and most enemies. Not all attacks can be grabbed.

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13 Re: Grappling in action games on Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:03 am

Birdman


Moderator
Dragons Dogmas got grabs, I know as a chucked some goons of a cliff.

You can also grab and restrain goblins and humans, as can pawns, allowing you or them to get in free attacks. I've never done it before because I don't play melee ever but I've seen pawns do it tons of times.

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14 Re: Grappling in action games on Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:30 am

How does Warrior Within handle grapples?

Oh boy here we go! The grabbing system in Warrior Within is a bit strange to explain, but I'll do my best. Basically you have two attack buttons, Main Hand and Off-Hand. You Main Hand always has your main weapon which does not break and is your main form of attack, your Off-Hand has two 'stances'. The first is grabbing the weapon of a fallen enemy (or weapon racks) and using this to dual wield - this opens up combo strings and gives you extra damage on some specials like the wall-slash; they have a set durability though and will eventually break. One of the moves is to throw the weapon in an enemy, which stuns him as he attempts to pull it out of his (or her) chest.

Now if your Off-Hand is empty, you can use it for numerous things. You can now do kicks from a wall for knockdowns instead of a slash and most importantly: grab humanoids. When grabbed you have a few options:
- torture: you crack their neck for minor damage constantly, if you kill them this way the Prince will grab their weapon and decapitate them with it while switching stance to Dual Wield.
- weapon steal: can also be triggered if you torture an enemy when he is golden (low on health).
- throw: you can throw them in any of 8 directions around you, throwing them against a pillar or enemy deals extra damage. You can easily throw them off the railing though to their doom.
- slash: a quick slash through their stomach for massive damage, if it kills them you get a nice animation with i.frames.
- head slash: a quick slash to their neck, lets go immediately afterwards.
- jump: use them as a base to jump off to vault over another enemy. Handy if you grab a foe and want to quickly relocate.
- nothing: the Prince will let go, and the enemy is stunned for a second or so.

Some enemies are immune to vaults and will kick you off them, so grabbing them and using them to vault over an enemy is a good strategy. Really opens up the combat. My favorite thing being you could chose your own order, so you could vault > throw weapon > steal weapon if you wanted, or vault > throw > slash or vault > torture > slash or vault > torture > throw. Everything is possible, such a grand game.

Here is the combat wheel that shows the options:



And here is a trailer showing a lot of the options:

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15 Re: Grappling in action games on Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:36 am

Birdman


Moderator
Damn, that video was fantastic.

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16 Re: Grappling in action games on Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:39 am

Not bad right for a game that launched in the same month as Ninja Gaiden 2004 did, right? Seriously, that game was so ahead of its time it wasn't even funny. Shame the studio was disolved for being too ambitious and having the sequel to be a downgrade in each and every other way.

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17 Re: Grappling in action games on Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:09 am

Das some good shit, didn't know about half this stuff.

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18 Re: Grappling in action games on Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:49 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Transformers Devatation. Grimlock is a grapple character.

This is some of Morninglord22's awesome gameplay.

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19 Re: Grappling in action games on Fri May 11, 2018 1:55 am

Birdman


Moderator
Since I've been playing Knack 2 again I'll talk about his grab.

So basically, his arm extends pretty far, even when not too large, grabs the enemy and pulls them in. This stuns them and allows you to follow up with whatever.

You can't grab armored enemies normally unless you're way bigger then them, but at that point you probably don't need to.

It interrupts their attacks, and shuts down their offensive before they get near you.

It can also be used outside of combat to hit switches, pull down pieces of the environment, or to break out of reach sunstone crystals.

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20 Re: Grappling in action games on Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:52 am

Birdman


Moderator
So how is Guacamelee? I'm thinking of getting the first one. Reviews called it a metroidvania, and I didn't like the actual Metroid (more because the combat sucked) but Guacamelee looks combat focused with actual depth.

Are there stages? Ranks? Not sure I want to play anymore or these '100% completion' games.

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21 Re: Grappling in action games on Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:38 pm

I played it and absolutely loved it, but also barely remember anything about it. But seriously has great combat, tons of fun grapples and good humor.

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22 Re: Grappling in action games on Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:31 am

Birdman


Moderator
Sounds like a buy to me.

I really like the art design. I've seen one of those old masked wrestler movies before and they're hilarious, though it was actually TR that reminded me to get onto this game. There's a festival at one point that has a lot of those colorful masks around.

Doing some more research I've found there are challenges like time trials that will keep me going for a while. Gameplay looks super fun.

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23 Re: Grappling in action games on Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:43 am

Birdman


Moderator
Started playing it and it's so much fun.

The combat is excellent but I couldn't find any advanced discussion.

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24 Re: Grappling in action games on Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:55 am

Yeah the combat is a ton of fun, remember having a lot of fun setting up those grapples and slamming them into things and such. Really cool stuff! My memory on the game is a bit hazy but you'll eventually get even more stuff that works not just in exploration but also in combat. Glad you're liking it!

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25 Re: Grappling in action games on Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:42 am

Birdman


Moderator
I got the uppercut and headbutt.

Seems you can't use a special move twice in air even if you have the stamina.

There are some nifty little combos you can do. I messed around with that tutorial dummy a little and found some fun stuff. After the 3 hit ground combo, which normally knocks back, you can add the basic uppercut before they fly back. If they hit a wall you get a rebound and can infinitely relaunch or follow up with anything.

Once I get more moves I'll head back to that training dummy and mess around some more.

I'm going to start over though because I found there is a code that unlocks hard mode from the start.

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26 Re: Grappling in action games on Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:51 am

You should make a Guacamelee topic with all this general gameplay talk. I recently beat 1 and 2(solo on hard and on normal with dad), quality stuff with great synergy between combat and platforming. I also considered when’s I made this topic of adding its grappling examples but couldn’t find any videos that isolate the grabs.

It’s true there isn’t any advanced mechanics Tecknacks/Knacktics to be found sadly(guess that’s our job amigo!). Well barring the actual in game combo displays which are really elaborate but impractical or impossible due to weak enemies dying quickly and areas/other mobs not making specific combo strings possible.

As for grapples, in general they all contain complete Iframes during the grab, including the holding animation.

*Aimed directional throw, aim in a given direction to toss the foe into enemies/hazards, throw can be initiated at will or can be delayed until grab commences automatically. With this, one can avoid damage from the exploding floating demons if still in grab animation during explosion(the only defence beyond killing them).

*Suplex: Does decent damage to the grabbed foe and does a MASSIVE AOE SHOCKWAVE that knocks down all enemies and kills weaker ones(Cactus bomb throwers can be instakilled this way, as they only take damage from grabs), best throw for general crowd control, especially when overwhelmed or when damage after the grab is likely/guaranteed.

*Pile-driver has the shortest range but deals the most damage to the grabbed foe.

*Das boot kicks the grabbed foe forward dealing better collision damage than a aimed throw, as well as being faster.

*Rocket kick: Added in 2. A powerful upward kick that does good collision damage and isn faster than aimed throw, is just Das Boot but Upwards.

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