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Chaos Legion

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51Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:41 am

Birdman


Moderator
There's hope for a sequel yet!

The interview is interesting. He has some really good ideas.

Shame that they don't end up working how he wanted them to, which is kinda weird because if he went to this much effort to think them up trying to make something unique, you'd think he'd make sure it worked.

What I mean is, the legions don't come of as individual as he seems to think (to the point that the Sieg is essentially a nobody) and they get utterly decimated on later stages to the point you wouldn't even consider summoning them for a brawl.

You want to summon in quick bursts, not just let them run wild. While that looks cool and all, they can't dodge, block, coordinate themselves in any way, or even tell which enemy is a type they're strong against, or any sort of targeting priorities. All of this is managed by the player.

They still don't really have dodging or blocking even then. I mean recalling them to avoid an attack. Arrogance is the only legion that 'blocks' but it's not really blocking, rather absorbing damage to fire back as a beam.

I wonder what the game would have been like if the legions had that much autonomy? Personally I don't think it would be as good. It would make the game more random and take control out of the players hands.

52Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:50 am

Birdman


Moderator
I'm encountering this huge glitch in the Japanese version. I haven't noticed it before because I haven't put as much time into the JP version.

Basically what happens is for some reason the enemies stop doing normal damage and start dealing out damage so small I can barely see it.

A group that would normally do the full bar I have currently (on no upgrade so it isn't long) does nothing. I just stand there letting them smash me. It's pretty much invincibility.

I don't know what triggers it. It just starts happening and I don't notice.

I suspect it might have something to do with using healing items, but I've tried while getting hit, and while the life bar is still going down, but that didn't work.

I wonder if it's random and just happens? I'm using more healing items than usual in this run, so I strongly suspect something is glitching out, but I can't figure it out.

I need to to keep an eye on my actions and try to pinpoint the exact moment and what I was doing when it occurs.

53Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:28 am

Nadster


B-Rank
I wish I bought this when I had the chance.

54Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:33 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
It is never to late Nadster!

http://stinger.actieforum.com

55Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:48 pm

Infinity_Divide


C-Rank
I loved this game when I was a kid, it’s been on my list of things to re-buy but I never have. Still remember a magazine I had that said “if you loved Devil May Cry, you’ll love Chaos Legion”. And I remember thinking “...what?”. Good times.

56Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:51 am

Birdman


Moderator
I'm pretty sure that one line ruined this game.

Sad that even after realizing it wasn't another DMC, barely anyone gave it a chance and bothered to learn the mechanics.

57Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:22 am

hedfone

hedfone
C-Rank
I think CL also suffered from god hand graphics syndrome. The thing that took me so long to get into CL was how bland it looked. God hand is ugly, but has awesome art direction. Everything visually in CL that I have seen puts me off, but the gameplay keeps me in.

Sent from Topic'it App

58Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:58 am

Birdman


Moderator
Yeah I've seen that complaint as well though the colors didn't bother me at all. I actually like this drab color scheme and it contrasts well with the pale blue of the legions and the item pickups but not too much as they're also quite subdued and don't look out of place.

If you look at Haunting Ground, RE4, PN03 and GH you see these same colors (one of the reasons they are favs of mine) and they all had the same complaints. Haunting Ground not as much, probably because I don't think many people played it. RE4 was too brown, PN03 too white, etc. I know some of these games share assets but wouldn't be surprised to find they all did.

One thing I don't like in CL, though it's not a huge deal, is that some stages have a really bright, white sky and it hurts my eyes if I look at it for too long.

59Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:20 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Damn, the DMCV board is really showing its stupid lately. No doubt you've seen the Army of Zin and Chaos Legion topics.

People making claims like how CL is a 'low budget DMC' yet not being able to explain why.

Getting told I'm biased for daring to say anything positive about it, yet over the years I've been the first to talk flaws. It's just that the flaws most people are talking about are bullshit based on their lack of knowledge.

Notice when I said to Alexx to PM to talk CL seriously and that guy popped up and told him not to do it and that I'm biased? That's happened before. Not regarding CL, but for Lollipop Chainsaw and Knack 2.

But it's the not the games I'm talking about. I've had someone get all mad and weird when I've suggested someone to PM me to talk serious. It's like these know-nothings are actually scared that that discussion is being taken away from them and they won't be able to convince someone that the game is like they claim it is. They get all triggered about it.

It's bizarre. It's like these people have a personal stake in whether or not a game has depth or is good or whatever. Like something bad will happen to them.

Then again, maybe it will. There is an ancient horror, that the very whisper of, strikes fear into the hearts of all message board dwellers.

BACKPEDALLING

60Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:51 am

Nadster


B-Rank




Had to do it.

61Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:18 am

Birdman


Moderator
I've been messing around with Baby Thanatos on my no upgrade file.

It really sucks that when you evolve Thanatos to Perfect, you can never use his 3 previous forms again (Baby, Adolescent, and Adult). Sure, they're a million times weaker in every way, but they're different, or at least Baby is. I barely used these forms.

Without upgrading, Baby only gets like 2 seconds of its assist (The Ignorant Masses) which slows time for enemies and at the same time sends out homing fireballs. Baby only fires two. They still cause the enemy to launch though.

The main difference is in their force attacks. For Baby, he will vanish then appear high above the enemy, and drop directly down on them. For most enemies, this is their head.

This actually causes a stun on some enemies. I haven't made a full list yet, but I'm working on it. So far it works on most light enemies, and stuns them for about 2.5, maybe 3 seconds.

It's normal attack has is hover near and enemy and smash into them 3 times quickly.

It's bad in groups and will get destroyed unless you trigger its force attack constantly which gets it out of harm's way.

I have tons to say but I'll post again after I've made some more notes.

62Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:59 am

Infinity_Divide


C-Rank
I just ordered this, should have it by the end of the week. Hoping to start playing it shortly after, will reference this thread.

63Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:05 am

Birdman


Moderator
What I need to do is create a separate file where I max out Baby Thanatos. He only changes form if you level up Force.

I want to max his attack to see if it has any influence on what can be stunned with his force attack.

Found out something I didn't know today, due to barely touching this form. If you let him do his regular 3 hit attack, you can press force before it ends and it'll link straight into the force drop attack.

Also, if you launch an enemy, then force, it will cause the enemy to be smashed down. I put him in passive so he wouldn't do his regular attack while I was launching.

Funny how the weakest, most useless form is turning out more interesting than the final one.

I just ordered this, should have it by the end of the week. Hoping to start playing it shortly after, will reference this thread.
Nice. English version?

I ask because in the English version they really ramped up the difficulty with enemy count, strength, exp requirements, etc. The Japanese version is easier, but more balanced.

In fact, due to the changes, some of the rank requirements in the English versions are weird. Arcia has two stage where AAA+ isn't possible. Feels like they didn't test them at all.

64Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:45 pm

Infinity_Divide


C-Rank
Yeah, English version. Do you prefer the Japanese version then?

65Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:26 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Look at this comment from a random from GFAQs regarding CL.

Saw a playthrough of the game after seeing this thread. The game had serious flaws, but the concept was great. It has a LOT of potential and honestly needs a remake. Badly. Like Parasite Eve.

Such authority. I mean he DID see a playthrough on Youtube after all. More than enough to know all the game's mechanics, flaws, and possible potential, and know for sure it needs a remake! Who are we to mess with THAT???

This particular level of stupid should be framed in gold and displayed.

Do you prefer the Japanese version then?
Kinda, but I played the Eng release for most of my time with it.

66Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:39 am

Birdman


Moderator
I don't get people. Does anyone read anymore?

I post how many times that in CL, you can defeat enemies fast if you know what you're doing. I'll admit early game can be tough but it's nowhere near as bad as some people make it out to be.

It's like they skip that, and go on to post all these so-called flaws that basically equate to not really knowing what they're doing/trying to play the game like some other game (like how I tried to play old GoW1 like a ninja by dodge rolling everywhere and barely used grabs).

Why not say, 'Oh hey, can you elaborate on that? Sounds good' or, 'What do you suggest? I'll give it a try'.

That's what I always do when I hit a roadblock. I seek out the authorities on the matter and see if I'm doing something wrong rather than keep complaining and ignoring all advice.

67Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:43 am

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
Because that would impart a fault on their side. It is much easier to say "no, you are wrong. I played correctly" than to admit they have no clue as to what they are doing wrong. They are children, not mature people. It stings, because people like these can run the reputation of a perfectly fine game through the mud, but it is best to just ignore it. This isn't a battle anyone can win outside of scaring them away.

http://stinger.actieforum.com

68Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:02 am

Birdman


Moderator
Perfection.

Not gonna lie, CL has flaws. It's one of my favorite games of all time but I'm not blind to the issues. I'll make a list tomorrow of what I don't like. I do get why someone wouldn't like its type of gameplay though. It's just that A LOT of problems people have with it are due lack of knowledge or just bad play.

That's fine too, I went through some of the same shit when I first started actually, though I saw what needed to be done pretty quickly. It's when they stick by that limited experience as fact and act like they have a real stake in it that gets me.

You can still not like it even if you master it. I have no issue with that.

The enemies hit too hard, legions die too easily, can't avoid this, that takes too long, etc. It's all solvable but they would rather plug their ears.

But yeah, you've summed it up perfectly. There's really nothing more to say. I probably need to stop complaining in here lol.

69Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:17 pm

Royta/Raeng

Royta/Raeng
Admin
I saw it happen with Metal Gear Rising, Shinobi, Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta and even Resident Evil 4 of late. People are ... weird. A game can be flawed and still good. I really like Devil May Cry but I'll be the first to admit the series has some serious controller-layout issues.

No worries about complaining, this place is as much a discussion forum as a 'safeheaven' to relax and unwind.

http://stinger.actieforum.com

70Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:07 am

Birdman


Moderator
Here's a few flaws that immediately come to mind. I'll probably think up more as I type.

1 - Cannot repeat Side A stages after completing stage 12.

This activates Side B which gives all the previous stages different enemy layouts and are much harder. This doesn't bother me too much, but it puts pressure on the player to get the AAA+ rankings before stage 12. I can do them all easily, but the issue is the game doesn't tell you what's going to happen. It says Side B has opened up but not that Side A and those ranks are forever lost. Side B has it's own set of ranks that take over. I had to learn this the hard way and it pissed me off.

2 - Not being able to repeat the prologue stage EVER.

The prologue is the tutorial stage, and you have Adult Thanatos, so it's pretty easy. The AAA+ rank is actually not so easy. That's fine, but the flaw is the game doesn't tell you that you can never repeat this stage. I don't see any reason for this.

3 - On stage 11 you fight Victor, but when you repeat the stage, the boss will be multiple waves of tough enemies. You can never fight him here again.

4 - Some legions become obsolete later in the game. Stuff like this is near unavoidable in almost every action game. You'll always have something the winds up being the best.

5 - A few enemies don't have much to them, and are just dumb to fight. Some don't have counter hits, while others have a few moves and they can all be countered. I don't mind if an enemy has some moves that can't be countered, but it would still be nice if they did.

Take this guy. I love this enemy. I'll give an example of a good enemy vs a bad one.
Chaos Legion - Page 2 Latest?cb=20121002143830

Sorry for the size.

Anyway this guy has a few things he can do.

At mid-long range, he will run at you with his head down and up close he'll do a slam attack or two different swipes, one for each arm. Many the new player was decimated by these, as he likes to clip you as you try to go around him.

He attacks depending on range, and everything he does has a counter hit. The swipes and slam are extremely dangerous to try counter, as is the slam. On a new game those will near OHK you. His head is also a weak point, and if you hit with an attack that has enough power, it causes a stun. You can infinitely do this with the jumping spin slash once you get a few points in attack power.

Other enemies, like this fool, have pretty much zero to them.
Chaos Legion - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwRniwc_dRkLwuUC5cuTB6xco06Cil4TfFJDXfjTUkY1McuWie

See that blade arm? All they can do is run up and slowly swing it once. No counter hit. Nothing. They aren't even strong. Feel really unfinished. You can see a huge difference between this guy and the previous one. They are kinda durable, but for some reason every time you encounter them, which isn't many times, for the most part it's only them. No mixing them up with other enemy types. I think there's only one part of stage 7 where you'll fight them with some other enemy types and you can just run past them.

6 - The English versions have some balance issue due to every aspect being increased to make the game harder. In two of Arcia's stages, you can never get the AAA+ rank.

7 - Mission select any time would be nice. As it is now, you have to wait until after stage 9.

8 - Here is a big one. You can cancel recovery of sword attacks by jumping. This is better than dodge rolling in a lot of cases because in addition to avoiding attacks, you gain access to both of Sieg's jumping attacks (as well as double jump which if done on an enemy is an attack, and Airblaze when you unlock them). You have more freedom of direction than a dodge roll.

But you lose the ability to JC if you learn a move from Flawed called Despise. Starts at 0:35.


See that Backflip type of move? That's done by pressing X (jump) after a sword slash, which means it takes over the ability to jump normally. Despise is NOT a bad move at all. When he kicks off the enemy, it electrocutes them and any that touch them causing a stun. It also launches light enemies. It can get you out of trouble due to how it moves you backward, and I've even done it over enemies coming in from behind.

The issue is that it takes over JC, and that is always more useful. With Despise, you can only go one way, and can be hit if you land in attacks. Enemies will not always be right in front of you.

There is a way around this, though it hurts just as much. You would have to not level up Flawed and lose double jump.
So the flaw here is that it's not a different command. The Flawed legion is Flawed. Huh, makes sense I guess.

9 - When you double jump, you can't do the spin slash. I think you lose access to Airblaze too. Only the down slash is available. This makes no sense to me. It isn't about height, because all the air attacks can be done close to the ground too.

That's all I can think of right now. Here's what AREN'T flaws.

1 - Enemies doing too much damage.
2 - Legions dying too fast.
3 - Not liking the colors/graphics or whatever doesn't mean shit. I like the colors and I'm not biased, because I love the color schemes in RE4, P.N 03, and Haunting Ground. Look them up and you'll find they're all very similar.

Well, that turned into an essay fast lol.

71Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:46 am

Birdman


Moderator
Some fun. Post 106.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/241018-devil-may-cry-5/77471458?page=10

Framing the situation to discredit me by claiming I'm 'triggered', for simply asking for clarification. Like I've always said, it's like some people have a personal stake in a game having 'depth' or not.

Deeper gameplay as in more combo variety. Not just one standard 5 button combo.
It's comments like this that make me shake my head.

COMBOCOMBOCOMBOCOMBOCOMBOCOMBOCOMBO!!!

72Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:59 am

Birdman


Moderator

73Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:14 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Aaaand...there it is! There go the fingers into the ears.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/241018-devil-may-cry-5/77471458?page=11#114

Delicious.

74Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:12 am

TheFirmament1


D-Rank
I'm just about to start this game on PCSX2. That is, after I configure it, and make sure that there aren't glitches or whatever.

Any tips for starters?

75Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:34 am

Birdman


Moderator
I'll get back to you in an hour or two as I'm out at the moment.

But it's got a lot of similarities to most other action games. Cancel recovery on slashes into dodges or jumps for example.

If you're playing before I get home just dump as many questions and observations as you want.

76Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:09 am

TheFirmament1


D-Rank
1. The translation's a bit crap. Kinda hard to understand some of the tutorials, as a result, but I'll get by.

2. Damn, the game's budget was so low that they couldn't even display buttons for the tutorials, based on your control scheme. Annoying to have to constantly go into the controls to remember which button I'm supposed to use.

3. What the fuck is the shift button? It's R1. So dodging is like DMC, a bit. (Type A control scheme)

Only played the first 2 levels. Game's pretty weird, but I'm liking it. I'm assuming it opens up as I go on?

I'm also considering trying the PC version, if possible, but I hear the game is incredibly buggy. Or should I try the Japanese version? Does the JP version have English subs, or menus? You mentioned that it was more balanced, and easier. I'm playing this on an emulator, so keep that in mind.

77Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:19 am

Birdman


Moderator
>tutorials
Can barely remember them. Wouldn't be surprised if they said something weird though. Let me know.

>budget
Yeah I assume it was low. I once read the reason the backgrounds are so bland is due to it using hardware designed to fit as many enemies onscreen as possible without slowdown. Never confirmed it though.

>dodge
Pretty much. Don't know why they call it shift. Fall recovery is called Drop Evasion. It's odd, I'll agree.

>PC
I wouldn't.

>Japanese
No subs or anything.

I can really only respond to issues or observations. If I start giving out tips they probably won't end but I'll try some quick ones.

*The jump slash has two variations. A spin and a downward multi-hit. The spin can cause a knock down even on some tougher enemies that you wouldn't be able to stagger with regular sword attacks.

*The game has stats. After getting more attack power, you'll notice you'll be able to flinch certain enemies better then before.

*There are counter hits that work like fighting game CH where you interrupt and enemy attack with your own. If you don't have the attack power for tougher enemies, you'll trade hits. This is the kind of thing that won't be apparent until it happens to you and you learn from it. Like if you see one of those tall ugly alien looking things running at you with it's head down, you can counter, but at low stats you will trade and take heavy damage. There are tactics to get around this but I'll go into those if you end up sticking with the game.

*Roll or jump after attacks to cancel the recovery and reposition yourself.

*Don't let legions run wild. Summon in short bursts. Disband (unsummon) has iframes on Sieg.

*Disband, assists startup, some special moves, dodge roll, all have i-frames.

*You gain special moves from the Enchant legion stat. At first, you will only be able to use them when that legion is equipped, but later you'll find an item that unlocks and extra tier of upgrade that lets you keep anything without equipping the legion.

*Use Malice's sniper mode (hold Triangle) to attack the metal tip atop monster generators to kill them super fast.

78Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:50 pm

TheFirmament1


D-Rank
Which stats on Guilt should I level up first?

79Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:51 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Good question and one that isnt immediately clear first time through. I'll spare you most of the details and just give you what I do. Start with enchant as that can give you extra slashes and bonus stats. If you have spare points get an extra Legion unit.

You want to keep Guilt equipped until you get your first spirit gem (the thing I described earlier that unlocks an extra tier of upgrades) so you can keep his stuff. Guilt and Malice are a good combo to keep until then because you're covering organic and metal and the enemies aren't that tough until later.

Alternatively you can swap out Guilt for Blasphemy as soon as you get it. You'll lose Guilt's bonuses but Blasphemy's assist is so good even at low levels so upgrade that instead. Up to you. I'd stick with the first option though since it's your first run.

Depending on the legion I might get a certain stat last. Like with Blasphemy, assist comes first, but legion units and def come last because I never summon it. In general I do def last because I dong let them get hit.

80Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:18 am

TheFirmament1


D-Rank
Thanks for the tip. What about leveling up Malice?

And holy shit, Stage 4's boss.

81Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:59 am

TheFirmament1


D-Rank
In all honesty Birdman, I don't really think this title is holding my attention very well. The gameplay's functional, but there's something about the whole atmosphere and look of the game that just puts me off the whole thing. The best way I can describe it is that it just feels totally dead.

I really hope I'm not coming off as some close-minded asshole, here. I'm not trying to say the game is bad, and I'm not trying to claim that the game is too hard, or anything, it's just really uninteresting to me.

82Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:43 am

Birdman


Moderator
It's fine. The game looks pretty much as you described. Some love it and feel it has a dark atmosphere. The word 'gothic' is thrown around a lot.

Personally I like it. I also like RE4's drab color scheme as well, and rainy days. Some hate it. I got no issue with that, or opinions on graphics. I'm only interested in the gameplay.

Of course, I'll say stick with it, but it's up to you.

83Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:49 am

TheFirmament1


D-Rank
I'll try to keep playing, and hopefully, the combat really starts interesting me. Right now, it's, like I said, functional, but it doesn't greatly interest me.

84Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:52 am

Birdman


Moderator
What are your views on it so far? other than 'functional' is kinda vague. Maybe there's some element you aren't using that I could offer to make it more interesting.

85Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:06 am

TheFirmament1


D-Rank
There's almost certainly a lot of stuff I'm not using.

A lot of the "generator" fights end up with me just using Malice to shoot at the metal tip from afar, or if it's bent over, I go in, and kill it myself with the basic sword attack.

Anyway, here are some other questions.

- How exactly do Counters work? Does it involve timing my attack to an enemy's attack, like in the DMC reboot? I seem to be doing something with Ogma when they roll at me, and I attack them. Is that the counter?
- So I should just use my legions as burst damage, yes? When are the best times to summon, and dismiss them?
- What exactly determines which air attack I use (Spin vs downward slash)?
- How can I use my assists most effectively? E.g the properties, and their situational usefulness?
- How can I get the most mileage out of my basic attack string?
- Is there a way to cancel my action into a summon/dismiss?

86Chaos Legion - Page 2 Empty Re: Chaos Legion on Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:05 am

Birdman


Moderator
>generator
That is the most efficient method. Otherwise, you'll have to keep killing enemies until it gets tired and slumps over, dropping it's defense to pretty much zero.

The idea though, is to be able to fight respawning enemies for exp, or just take the thing out and move on. I remember in the early days where this wasn't known. Absolute nightmare for a lot of players and was one of the main complaints.

>counters
They work like fighting games. You attack at a certain point during the enemy's attack animation. It's not like MGR or Onimusha where you do a unique counter animation. In CL, like say, Tekken, your animation plays out fully.

There's no way to see the counter timing other than learning all enemy attacks. This is what I did. Now I can pop any of them as I please. Not all attacks can be countered though. You'll know a counter by this weird, squeaky sound effect, a brief hit-stop, and you'll see a different hit effect.

>ogma
When it's rolling, either on the spot or when it's moving, it's open to a counter. As practice, try coming down on it with either of the jump slashes.

>legions as burst
On earlier levels against weak enemies it would be reasonably safe to let them fight, like against those green spiders or a few ogma. For more dangerous stuff like those tall guys, I'd lock on with Guilt and have them attack with their Force attack, and be ready to dismiss for when it takes a swing. You don't have to fight it this way. Just an example.

Here's an example for the stage 5 boss. I have other videos but they're so old I can't remember what happens in them.


>best time
That really depends on the situation and enemies present.

>air attacks
Can't believe I forgot to mention this!
The down slash comes out if you delay a bit after you jump. Wait until just as you start to descend. The spin is when you slash immediately, but you can delay it slightly before it becomes a down slash. You can still hit small enemies near the ground with it, or use it while rising.

>effective assists
Depends. There are a lot of examples and situations.
I'll give you some quick, early game examples.

Guilt's assist is that forward dash. This is great as a safe counter hit due to assist i-frames. Take that tall guys dash. You can counter and go right through him without risk. At this point you won't have the attack power to pull off that counter with Sieg alone. It's fantastic as a counter against the stage two boss (big sword monster) when he dashes at you. Since it cuts through enemies, you can use it to position behind them.

Malice's assist is good for metal enemies like those stationary cannons. You can get nice, safe metal damage without having to summon or snipe since Malice is invincible while firing. It will launch small enemies, but isn't very useful in a game like this. The launch can be could for a simple knock down, but not something I would really do.

When you get a new legion let me know and we can go over possibilities.

>basic string
This remains ever useful on organic enemies. You can link assists and other actions into it. The final hit, once you learn it, is a slash you can't recover from so be careful about committing to it.

>cancel to summon/dismiss
The only thing you can cancel the recovery of is the basic sword string, minus the final hit. You can link into summon/dismiss. Dismiss has good i-frames. Never use summon like this though as you'll just call the legions up into an attack.

If anything here is unclear just let me know.

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