Chaos Legion

Since I set up my PS2 to play Transformers, I felt an urge to play other PS2 classics as well.

Decided to pop in CL and do a no upgrade run in the Japanese version as this is something I want to record once I get the equipment. The JP version is much easier than the English ones, but I will be doing the PAL version as well. PAL and US versions are identical.

As for the game, I'll describe it basically because I have way too much info on it.

It's an action game where you can summon legions, which are weird phantoms or various types. Legion and enemy types are divided into the categories of metal an organic. Some attacks are more effective than others. For example Guilt (sword) is only effective on organic types, and can't to much to metal.

You can take two legions into a stage, but can only summon one type at a time, so the best idea is to take one that deals with organic and one for metal. Sieg (player character) uses a sword so his attacks are initially weak against metal, however, once you know the mechanics and get good enough you can still take down metal with Sieg due to things like counter hits.

Each stage is super bland, but I love the color scheme. Stages are pretty much room after room of enemies that must be defeated. Often there is a target monster, that once killed, will result in all enemies vanishing.

There is not a huge amount of enemy types, with most being powered up versions of others with new attacks, but this was never an issue to me.

There is an upgrade system. Killing enemies gives exp which is used to power up legions. Sieg doesn't power up with exp. Instead you find stat pickups for him. Nothing too extensive. If you're playing the English versions though, they boosted the amount of exp required by millions, though even then it's not too bad if you know what you're doing.

There is a ranking system. By getting AA+ in each category, you'll get an overall rank of AAA+.

Not going to go in-depth on the combat as it would take hours. I'll answer specific questions though.

Difficulty? Bosses?

Easy, normal, hard, and super hard. There is no NG+.

Super is just OHK on everything including yourself.

Starting a new game on hard can be well, quite hard IF you're playing the English versions. Gets easier the more you power up but you also need to know what you're doing.

What are you asking about bosses?

How many bosses? their general game design?

Not many actually. Some are repeats but with some huge differences.

They still go buy the metal/organic categories and have phases depending on how much hp they have left. Most of the time they have regular enemies, or a phase where they appear.

Movelist? Does it have Dial and pause combos? So what do the legions do, like combo assists and give extra powers?

The main character has a very small movelist though all of it is useful. He has a sword string which starts at 4 strikes but can be upgraded to 6. He has two types of jump attack and a handful of special moves. At most you're looking at about the same amount, more or less, as DMC1 Dante, but then you get legion assist attacks which function as special moves.

I'll describe it more later. Have to drive to work now.

With legions, you can summon them to fight alongside you. When summoned you movement becomes limited and you can only walk. You can still perform all other actions like dodging, attacking, and jumping. Your attack power will go down as well though defense increases.

If you leave legions to act alone, they will attack whatever is closest. Pressing triangle will trigger their 'Force Attack'.

Force attack basically is their special move. Each legion does something different. For example the sword legions do a high speed flurry of stabs, while the bow legion will fire as rapidly as you can press the button and if held you will enter sniper mode. This brings up a targeting reticule that you can manually aim. They do more damage in this mode as well.

You can take two legion types into a stage but can only summon one unit at a time. I'll update later.

Assists are when a legion and Sieg attack at the same time. Basically a type of special move. They consume one bar of soul. You can link them into the sword combo at any point before the end.

They have decent i-frames as they start up, and each legion's assist is different. For example, with Malice, Sieg will swing his sword upward and launch small enemies, then some Malices appear and shoot the enemy in the air.

With Hatred, it will appear in front of Sieg and catch an enemy attack then perform a unique counter. Not every attack or enemy can be grabbed.

Arrogance puts up a shield that halves damage and prevents knockdown.

The legions themselves can't be damaged in assists. Like I said, they are special moves and don't count as an actual summon.

You can learn special moves for Sieg by leveling up legions. The system is kinda odd. As long as the legion is equipped, you can use those moves but if you remove it you lose access. You can keep moves by maxing out that legion stat, called Enchant. Once you do that you'll eventually have access to everything without needing to equip whatever legion.

Any other specific questions? I'll start rambling otherwise. I haven't posted any of my old videos because they were just messing around at full power.

Could you explain each legion?

Guilt - Sword. Fast attack. Strong against organic.

Malice - Bow. Ranged attack and sniping. Strong against metal.

Blasphemy - Bomb. This one's summon works a little differently from other. When they attack they explode, which actually takes from their soul meter (soul being their life bar).

Arrogance - Shield. Like Blasphemy, this one does something different. When attacked, they start to glow and store energy from the attack. When you press triangle for their force attack, they will each fire a powerful laser beam. Hurts any type.

Flawed - Claw. These guys are like little ninja goblins. For their force attack they jump into the air above the enemy and drill downwards with their claws. I think they hurt all types but it's been so long since I used them.

Hatred - Brawler. These guys punch and kick. They act like a slower version of Guilt but stronger. Strong against organic.

Thanatos - Ultimate. You have to find all the pieces to use this one and it has 3 forms gained by upgrading. Hurts anything.

These are just basic explanations not going in-depth into their force attacks.

I forgot to talk about battle and passive modes. These change how a legion behaves.

Really need to dive into this game soon. I'm in a bit of a 'one game at a time' mood right now, so it might take a while. But I at least have the game so when the time is right I can just pop it in an go nuts :)

Gave it another honest attempt, got to Stage 3 and - for the first time since I was probably 12 - rage quit. I cannot imagine doing this. After three hard and long fights, I have to go into an arena with infinite enemies and 5 spawners that have near infinite health? What? How?

I'm probably missing something but none of my attacks do any type of damage to those things, it is ridiculous. The game is overly cryptic, which isn't helping. The tutorial "hit enemies in their weakspot" was the crown yewel. I'll give it another go next week somewhere if I can muster it.

I like the mechanics, find them fun, but having to repeat large segments because everything two shots you on Normal, while you have to whail for nearly a whole minute on one of those spawners...kinda stupid. Probably missing something, but I can see why the game flopped hard if it even made me ragequit as early as stage 3.

Your gonna get a whoopin' from gramps now Roy! Should have read his posts! Kidz deez dayz.



This the stage?

Fear not Roy. What if I told you I can beat that stage on a new game, hard mode, without getting hit, in record time?

This is a common complaint for a lot of first time players I've heard over the years. I went through it as as well way back on release. The best the game tells you is there are metal and organic types and that they have weaknesses, then leaves you to find out for yourself.

First, the enemies are not infinite. You have the option to fight them and eventually the generators get tired and cant produce anymore. You'll hear this weird high pitched whistle (that's the best I can explain it lol) and you'll see the generator is now leaning over. It can be killed in a few basic hits in this state.

The second way, and this is what you'll probably want to do. Summon Malice, and hold triangle to go into sniper mode. Aim at the top part of the generator. It looks like a metal tip or spike. Due to this being metal, Malice is strong against it and can take it down in no time. You may need to reposition due to enemies, but it's easy.

The generator's main body is organic, but has insane defense when not tired. Regular attacks it this point will not do much and enemies will be on you constantly. But with Malice, you can destroy them all from a distance.

Here is a video from the only decent player I've ever seen. It's stage 3 and shows exactly how to deal with this stage. Perfect examples of using Malice. If at any time you see him messing around with enemies, it's because this guy was going for the AAA+ rank which requires a kill count. He'll also summon legions more often to kill an enemy, because you get more exp if legions deal the final hit.


Once you get a hold of the weaknesses, some counter hits and other tactics, no fight will be long and hard again.

Oh boy this game is one of my favorites. I beat it so many times as a kid. Don't have a PS2 otherwise I would play it again, but maybe I can find a copy of the PC version somewhere.

I really loved running through the game as Arcia though. Her gameplay was some of my favorite and I feel it might have inspired Lady in DMC4SE

Glad to see another fan. They're quite rare!

The PC version is super glitchy from what I've seen. A common occurrence in many videos I've watched, is attacks hitting multiple times somehow. Like I once saw Sieg do the rising sword slash, and the hit spark on the enemy went nuts and just kept happening as it launched.

I really want to play that version, as it's almost like a new set of mechanics in how glitchy it is. I actually have the game, but can't run it on my laptop. Someday lol.

Arcia is awesome. I especially like her lie down move.

Sounds like that would be something pertaining to the framerate. The original I think was designed to be 60 fps, so if a computer goes higher than that it may cause certain glitches to rapid fire. No idea though haha

I'm doing a no upgrade run on the Japanese version at the moment. Just finished stage 7 and taking a break.

So I just realized this game is like 13 years old and I've been playing it since release. Wtf?

For some reason my mind really never left this time period. I still played PS3 and all that, I guesd it's just that I never cared for technological updates much. I never focused on differences between systems. Gameplay is all that has ever interested me and I draw no line between console or advancement in technology/graphics.

Managed to get through stage 3, if it wasn't for these tips I honestly wouldn't have continued. How in the living hell are you supposed to know that you have to hit the metalic head piece, the fuck haha. 

I just farmed the whole stage, trying to get as much EXP as possible. Any tips on how to counter-attack those big alien type enemies? I know how to deal with the rollers now (jumping slash after the roll), but they remain a mystery to me.

Just got the bomb-legion, seems...pretty pointless right now.

The game tells you almost nothing about what type anything is, but usually you can tell by their look. If not, listen for the sound effect of your hits. You'll hear a distinct clanking sound on metal types.

Generators are a slight exception in that their main body is technically organic but has super high defense. They give you the option to build exp instead of destroying them outright.

With counters, you're just interupting an enemy at a specific point in their attack animation. So any attack will usually work as a counter, though some attacks cant be countered. Some attacks are safer to counter than others

With the tall alien guy, I would say dont counter it at all at this point with Sieg alone. A counter hit's effectiveness to an extent is based on how much attack power you have. If you dont have enough you'll trade hits which can be bad early game.

The best way to deal with these guys early game is to isolate them, lock on and summon Guilt. Force attack until you see it about to attack them, then disband to save them from getting hit.

For counters, you can counter all of its attacks but the easiest is when it puts its head down at runs at you. It often does this if you keep backing up or are at a distance.

With your current attack power, hitting it now will trade and wont stop it. Instead use Guilt's assist. The sweet i-frames will let you dash right through it and it'll get knocked down usually (timing thing).

I have to get ready for work but will post about the bombs later.

Back to counters for a min. The options for that alien thing are limited for new but once you learn more special moves you'll be able to counter them way more easily.

Guilt has a great move called Ground Zero. Check its Enchant stat to see if it's available yet. It's a single hit and super strong. Great for counters on many enemies.

With rollers you dont have to wait until after they roll. You can use that jumping spin slash any time they roll up. There's also the other variation where you wait a sec before attacking and get that downward slash. This is really good for coming down on them while they're rolling and just good in general for jumping in on enemies.

As for Blasphemy (bomb) its assist attack is its main use and the best in the game when upgraded. Summoning, not so much.

Left alone, they will explode now and then and lose soul each time. Slow rate of attack. Force attack is better where they'll stick in the ground as landmines and after a few seconds they'll all explode at once.

It's not the most useful summon. You'd need to really get in there and help by attacking and building soul. All for results that could have been achieved 10x better in a second with the assist.

Assist is better in every way. Usable in sword combo, i-frames, and leveled up has insane crowd control. Launches most enemies and has them land in a pilein front of you and gets a lot of soul back. Hurts any type.

Even level 1 assist is still damn decent though at this point if you switch out Guilt you'll lose part of your sword combo and whatever other bonuses. After a few stages, at least by stage 7 I think, you'll recieve an upgrade gem that unlocks a fourth tier if upgrades. The fourth enchant upgrade allows you to keep everything from that legion without equipping it. I'd say keep Guilt until then, upgrade level 4 enchant, then switch out for Blasphemy and begin working on its assist stat.

After stage 9 you'll be able to stage select.

@Birdman wrote:So I just realized this game is like 13 years old and I've been playing it since release. Wtf?

For some reason my mind really never left this time period. I still played PS3 and all that, I guess it's just that I never cared for technological updates much. I never focused on differences between systems. Gameplay is all that has ever interested me and I draw no line between console or advancement in technology/graphics.

You aren't alone. Gameplay has always been the forefront for what makes me love games. Societal pressure is the only reason I went outside of the games that I truly enjoyed, and while I did find some games I did end up loving, I always came back to character action games in general. I still haven't forgotten when my friend brought over Devil May Cry 2 to a sleepover and unlocked Trish while we were hanging out, showing us the insane boss fights as well. Or finding the demo for Vanquish on xbl and then making a japanese xbl account so I could play their demo as well. Picking up games in this genre has always been a memory that sits well, while most other games are just games to me.

The only other genre that tends to do that is what is formally known as "Walking Simulators". I get a special chill every time I play through those games as they are normally puzzle games that you experience as well as play, but the experience is always unique and interesting. Kairo and Mirrormoon: EP are two that stand out immensely, with the latter making me use trigonometry to complete a puzzle, something I won't ever take lightly haha.

With games, it's just the gameplay. If it is good, then the game is good to me. Otherwise, it is really just another attempt at a game that misses the core of the medium. Graphics don't matter, I can go from Hyper Light Drifter to Terraria to DMC4SE in minutes graphically. Graphics are the equivalent to art styles, and when major game companies recognize that, I think we will hit a new age in gaming.

> Bomb
Yeah I had the distinct impression that one was a lot better used as the assist, which seemed pretty powerful. But I'll stick to sword/arrow for now, see what comes up next.

> story
Am I supposed to not understand this haha?

> graphics
Same, I barely care as long as it's visible, though I do dislike 2d a lot of the time for some reason.
But a good friend of mine is 100% graphics, so when we talk games and he's like "man I wish there was a game like x" and I say "well, this game exists" he'll go "graphics man, can't play that ugly shit". Such a shame, he's missing out on a lot of great stuff just because it isn't pretty to look at.

> DMC2 Trish
FINALLY someone who mentions this, playing as her was the bomb in that game haha.

The story in this game is kinda a mess to understand lol. I didn't get it almost at all until I beat the game the first time. Oddly enough, the plot is based on a manga of the same name that I've never found an English translation for

Wow, that explains so much haha. It's not based on a manga but a light-novel, which is usually a lot more text. A lot of those visual novels and current anime (like Sword Art) are based on those types of books. Just found some of the artwork and it looks really fun honestly. Good cover-art. Big lol at Sieg wielding a shovel haha.

http://chaoslegion.wikia.com/wiki/Chaos_Legion_(novel_series)

Yeah it's not a bad idea to stick with Guilt and Malice at least until after stage 9 then you can replay levels and get the hang of stuff, test legion types and power up a bit.

Stage 6 can be tough because it has a lot of metal enemies that bomb is really good for but you want to keep in Guilt for attack bonus and sword moves until you can keep them.
I might start writing up a mechanics guide for this but its just too much info and I still havent finished Lollipop Chainsaw's one yet.

I got a bit annoyed in Stage 4 I have to say, stages are just such...large festivals of nothing but respawning enemies left and right and the final boss being an old boss 6 times in a row was a bit tedious as well. I did like that they matched together, but the camera wasn't doing the game any favors. 

I'm really surprised about this game though, in terms of difficulty especially. Game is balls-to-the-walls difficult for me.

Stages are pretty much room after room of enemies with the goal of killing everything or defeating a target. It never strays from that

I read somewhere that this game also served as a test to see how many enemies could be onscreen without slowdown or something. Possibly why it looks so bland most of the time.

I dont mind repeated bosses if they change something. Two, then three with enemies was fun.

What issues do you have with the camera? Was it only for the stage 4 boss or in general? I dont mind it but then Ive been playing it for years.

R1 centers it behind you and Im regularly tapping it to center my view. Otherwise use the right stick. Im always rotating that around. I even got to a point where I can could tell what an offscreen enemy was doing based solely on the mini-map.

Once you get more familiar with everything it gets way easier and you'll be able to start a new game on hard no problem and mop the floor with anything even with low power. Once you gain some stats and power up legions you'll be able to drop these guys one hit with a counter.

How were you dealing with that boss? Do you know about leading it to run into walls? This cause it to get knocked down and stunned, allowing you to freely attack its head. You do more damage while they're dizzy.

You can also use Guilt's assist to dash right through them as they run at you. Will do some counter damage and put you behind. Good to do when you have your back to the wall to get some quick damage before a wall hit.

In the final wave you want to deal with the generators. Easy way is to shoot tbe metal part with Malice using the walls separating the gates as cover. Those walls are super useful for this fight.

Found this topic with some old tips of you, pretty good read:
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/562317-chaos-legion/61475194

What do the higher difficulties do btw? Are there any?

> stages combat focused
Don't really mind this, but also means I don't play it more than a stage a day.

> camera
It is twofold. One being that my brain is still in the NGB camera (which is inverted by default and cannot be changed), but Sieg also has the habbit of rolling the wrong way for me. Could be a controller issue, but I've had it a few times now.

> R1 centers
Good to know!

> will be easier
Yeah from what I can tell, this game is really about optimazation of routes. What to kill in what order, how to get as much XP as you can and more. Have to say I quite like that, but it generally makes the first run a bit annoying (kind of reminds me of Mirror's Edge in that regard).

> boss
Pretty much the way you said, have them run into walls and combo their head for a near instant kill. Just the fact that one hit was 70%~ of my HP down the gutter was a bit frightening. Ended up killing the last one using Bow to the head from a distance.

Doesn't seem like you've been reading this thread Roy, naughty.

@Gabriel Phelan Lucas wrote:Doesn't seem like you've been reading this thread Roy, naughty.

Hm? How so? I have, otherwise I'd have even more questions haha.

@Birdman wrote:Easy, normal, hard, and super hard. There is no NG+.

Super is just OHK on everything including yourself.

Starting a new game on hard can be well, quite hard IF you're playing the English versions. Gets easier the more you power up but you also need to know what you're doing.

To save you the time.

@Gabriel Phelan Lucas wrote:

@Birdman wrote:Easy, normal, hard, and super hard. There is no NG+.

Super is just OHK on everything including yourself.

Starting a new game on hard can be well, quite hard IF you're playing the English versions. Gets easier the more you power up but you also need to know what you're doing.

To save you the time.

Ah must've missed that one. It does tend to happen Gabe. Shocking, I know

@Roy; A senior moment perhaps?

That still leaves what modes change beyond damage values, or is it just Birdman?

Found this topic with some old tips of you, pretty good read:
I vaguely remember those topics. There's way more to say than what's in there, but a lot of what I have to say is too arcane for Gamefaqs lol. I used to get so pissed back then with people saying the same shit over and over.

but Sieg also has the habbit of rolling the wrong way for me.

My guess is you might be releasing R1 too early but still holding the direction you wanted to roll, causing the the roll to go the wrong way. I'm not sure. I'd have to see it happen. It's the same command as DMC rolling, with the addition of forward and back options.

Have to say I quite like that, but it generally makes the first run a bit annoying (kind of reminds me of Mirror's Edge in that regard).

It can be yeah. There's no way to know the best way to deal with what you're facing at first. Sometimes you have an option of how to approach.

Like in stage 4, it's a huge area with a lot of these fast metal types flying around. It seems that no matter how many you kill, more will replace them, but they are actually being generated by the target monster generators in each of the four corners. You can use Malice to take down all the enemies, which will eventually wear out all 4 generators, or you can go straight for them.

Just the fact that one hit was 70%~ of my HP down the gutter was a bit frightening. Ended up killing the last one using Bow to the head from a distance.

If you play the Japanese version, it's much easier. So much was changed for the English releases, just like in DMC1. In the JP version, there are less enemies, less waves, bosses have less health, enemies and bosses have lower attack power and defense, legion exp is millions less, and an enemy type that shows up in the English versions doesn't appear in the JP one.

I suspect they didn't fully test and balance some of these changes. There are huge difficulty spikes, and even a problem with Arcia's rankings where you can't ever achieve them on two stages. DMC1 was similar. Some rankings were weird especially for SB requirements.

Later you can return to power up and take revenge like this.


That still leaves what modes change beyond damage values, or is it just Birdman?
Nothing changes in terms of enemy placements. Damage values are the only change in hard mode.

There is a sort of built in harder mode called Side B. After you beat stage 12, no matter what difficulty, Side B becomes available. This changes the enemy layouts of all stages, replacing them with tough versions of everything, and changes the rank requirements. Bosses are the same. There's also a new enemy type to deal with that doesn't appear in the Japanese version.

There's no NG+ either, though if you played normal first you should be ok. You'll have a good idea of what to expect and how to deal with everything by then.

Did you mention that there is a level select? Doesn't that function as NG+?

Once you complete stage 9 you get stage select.

It doesnt count as NG+If you start a new game you cant carry anything over. Not even to the same difficulty.

Did some Youtubing, and quite surprised to see another player character available, one that also seems to play completely different. Really something you don't see often, I love that!

Arcia is pretty cool. She doesn't have as much stuff as Sieg so feels somewhat barebones, but still fun to play.

Her guns are similar to Malice in that they hurt metal and have a sniper mode, but they also damage organic enemies decently too.

She has too modes: gun and kick. Each have moves that can transition to the other. Gun mode chamges all of her dodges too.

All this talk of legions, its like some JoJo stand battle shit, that's something I can get behind.

Any boss have their own legions?

@Birdman wrote:Arcia is pretty cool. She doesn't have as much stuff as Sieg so feels somewhat barebones, but still fun to play.

Her guns are similar to Malice in that they hurt metal and have a sniper mode, but they also damage organic enemies decently too.

She has too modes: gun and kick. Each have moves that can transition to the other. Gun mode chamges all of her dodges too.

Sounds like my kind of girl! I wonder how long it will take for me to get through the game, especially now that I'm diving deep into Ninja Gaiden Black again...

I always appreciate extra playable characters, ones with radically different play styles from the main character. Gun characters are always cool in my book, some gungrave shit right there.

All this talk of legions, its like some JoJo stand battle shit, that's something I can get behind.

Haha yeah they are kinda similar.

There are two PS2 action games of Jojo. Phantom Blood and Golden Whirlwind.  

PB is an average beat em up but GW has stand and it's actually pretty good. The stand mechanics are quite unique. There isnt much in the way of moves though. Your character has a basic attack string and dodge, and some special ability from their stand, and the Stand themselves have a few strings and special attacks too.

It's hard to explain the system once Stands are out. I'll make a topic later and see if I can find some good videos.

Any boss have their own legions?
Nope but they have phases where regular enemies appear.

Victor should have been able to summon them as he was once Sieg's ally (I assume he was a legion user) but story-wise it turns out he now hates the concept and considers them evil.

Damn, a final showdown with another legion user would be INSANE. Imagine that. Summoning all your units vs his plus you and him fighting at the same time, counter summoning etc.

No legion wielding boss is a big misstep.

That golden wind JoJo game is legit, I love that it adapts part 5 too, has some of my favourite stand battles and it's getting adapted to anime next.

He does summon monsters and huge swords, but that's nothing compared to how cool it would be if he did something like summon evil versions of your legions and make you fight through them, including the ultimate one.

Might go pester Ono about this.

Most of the time games like these thrive on rival battles, so yeah a bit surprised to hear there isn't really one. Still most bosses do summon foes though, which is something.

You fight Victor twice so it's still a rival battle, just wish he was like Sieg. I don't actually know if Victor could use legions when they were allies, I just know he hates the concept now. Siela was also there when they were trying to stop Azrail but no idea what her role was. Without reading the novels we'll never know.

I bought the soundtrack years ago and was surprised to find another disc inside. It was a drama CD. It tells the story from the game from the point of view of an unknown girl. It's not Arcia's voice. Sounds much younger. I can't remember, but there might be another girl and the first one is telling the story to her.

Anyway, it has parts where you hear the voice overs from the game's cut-scenes interspersed through the narrative. At the end, you hear footsteps and a door opening, then the girl welcome him back I think. If you're interested, once you're done with the game I'll upload it somewhere.

In the Japanese version manual, there's a page at the back promoting the novels. I heard there are more characters that what we see in the game too.

What? This tells me CL is a game where I play as a kid who summons copies of himself to fight...orcs? Like, I get that it's the same idea, but why did they portray it like this? Why Japan? WHY???

> sees Birdman post in CL topic
Oh god shit is about to go down.

I am surprised though! Also, Ono was involved with DMC and CL? Had no idea. I mostly know him as 'the Street Fighter guy'.